Is the .30-06 that much better than my .280 Remington
- Thread starter HAWKEYESATX
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I would take a different approach than TXbaldhunter, not that he is wrong.
Both are great rounds and you really can't go wrong with either. The 280's are a bit a little more specialized with better ballistics - BC and Sectional Density (SD). The 30-06 has more shock value, which for the average hunter / tracker can be more valuable.
Where I differ is that with identical bullet weights the 7mm bullets have much higher Sectional Densities (https://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm). The 280 Rem will push same weight bullets at the same velocity as the 30-06 at the same pressures. Same velocity with better SD means mean that a 160 grain 7mm bullet penetrates about the same as a 190 grain 30-06 bullet. A 140 grain 7mm bullet has a little better (within margin of error) Sectional Density than a 160 grain 30 cal bullet. There are ways around the SD, like increasing retained mass (mono or bonded) when going for bigger game. But for like bullet construction, shot placement and velocity the 280 Rem will out penetrate the 30-06. The 7mm bullets also tend to have better BC's if that is your thing.
For in state hunting hunting, I think of them as totally interchangeable. For BIG game hunting out of state, Bear, Moose, Elk, Red Stag or African Plains game like Gemsbuck, Kudu, etc. (where you are paying some bucks to hunt) then I really like the extra penetration that the 280's provide over the extra shock that the 30 cal bullet provides.
Personal opinion is based on a family arsenal of three 280 Rems, one 280 AI and four 30-06's. I'm a 280 guy and my father and his brother are 30-06 guys and my father often uses one of my 30-06's. The 280's also seem to have less recoil, in same the same setup - Kimber 84L's in 280 AI and 30-06 with same scopes and bipods.
The 280's I generally run 160-175 grainers and the 30-06's are generally run with 165-180 grainers depending on game. Michigan deer can be taken with just about anything - lots of 30-30's and some 7-30 Waters doing good work in the woods every year.
Last Elk I took was with a single 100ish yard quartering away shot with a 280 Rem 160 grain AccuBond at about 2850 fps; went through the liver, vitals and stopped just under the skin. Elk took 6 stumbling steps before bowling over less than 8 yards from where he was shot. Experience says a 180 grain AB or NP would have preformed about the same... First Elk I took was with a 30-06, 180 grain NP and a 100 yard broadside broke both shoulders and anchored the Elk where it stood. Bullet ended up just under the hide and I don't recall it needing a 2nd round.
Both are great rounds and you really can't go wrong with either. The 280's are a bit a little more specialized with better ballistics - BC and Sectional Density (SD). The 30-06 has more shock value, which for the average hunter / tracker can be more valuable.
Where I differ is that with identical bullet weights the 7mm bullets have much higher Sectional Densities (https://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm). The 280 Rem will push same weight bullets at the same velocity as the 30-06 at the same pressures. Same velocity with better SD means mean that a 160 grain 7mm bullet penetrates about the same as a 190 grain 30-06 bullet. A 140 grain 7mm bullet has a little better (within margin of error) Sectional Density than a 160 grain 30 cal bullet. There are ways around the SD, like increasing retained mass (mono or bonded) when going for bigger game. But for like bullet construction, shot placement and velocity the 280 Rem will out penetrate the 30-06. The 7mm bullets also tend to have better BC's if that is your thing.
For in state hunting hunting, I think of them as totally interchangeable. For BIG game hunting out of state, Bear, Moose, Elk, Red Stag or African Plains game like Gemsbuck, Kudu, etc. (where you are paying some bucks to hunt) then I really like the extra penetration that the 280's provide over the extra shock that the 30 cal bullet provides.
Personal opinion is based on a family arsenal of three 280 Rems, one 280 AI and four 30-06's. I'm a 280 guy and my father and his brother are 30-06 guys and my father often uses one of my 30-06's. The 280's also seem to have less recoil, in same the same setup - Kimber 84L's in 280 AI and 30-06 with same scopes and bipods.
The 280's I generally run 160-175 grainers and the 30-06's are generally run with 165-180 grainers depending on game. Michigan deer can be taken with just about anything - lots of 30-30's and some 7-30 Waters doing good work in the woods every year.
Last Elk I took was with a single 100ish yard quartering away shot with a 280 Rem 160 grain AccuBond at about 2850 fps; went through the liver, vitals and stopped just under the skin. Elk took 6 stumbling steps before bowling over less than 8 yards from where he was shot. Experience says a 180 grain AB or NP would have preformed about the same... First Elk I took was with a 30-06, 180 grain NP and a 100 yard broadside broke both shoulders and anchored the Elk where it stood. Bullet ended up just under the hide and I don't recall it needing a 2nd round.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
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212 in an 06? No lol. Has the trajectory of a rock, no thanks haha. 280 beats it anyday ballistically, plus the SDs of the 7s are a better. If you want to shoot a 200g+ bullet in a 30 cal, you need to step up to a 300 win mag at the mininum. Then you're getting into a whole another class if recoil. So for what it is, you cant really beat 7mms...
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
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For a short action yes, for a long action, NO! Lol
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,794
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I'm honestly not a huge fan of short actions in general. The 7/08 is my wife's rifle...so theres that haha.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
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Theyll all work for hunting. We are a fun bunch, always talking about calibers, bullets, and ballistics like animals know the difference lol.
SJB358,
I guess I get out in the woods more than most... Most of my friends get out camping and scouting way more than I can. I generally do most of my harvesting during archery season. I am kind of the designated meat harvester for family / friends. When my brother lived in state he wanted at least 2 deer a year, pastor wants 1 or 2, etc.
Last year I took two deer during archery and then I "guided" family / friends on five. The company I work for does a hunting and or fishing trip just about every year, and I tend to be the go-to-answer guy for customers and am actually supposed to spend time with the guides rather than customers and get their take on things.
The big trip this year is AK fishing out of Sitka at the end of this week and then in Nov. their is a customer coming from PA that took a good 5x5 point and a doe last year using a 7mm mag and his brother (30-06) took a good 4x4 as well. I don't think he will do as well as last year, but here's hopeing.
I guess I get out in the woods more than most... Most of my friends get out camping and scouting way more than I can. I generally do most of my harvesting during archery season. I am kind of the designated meat harvester for family / friends. When my brother lived in state he wanted at least 2 deer a year, pastor wants 1 or 2, etc.
Last year I took two deer during archery and then I "guided" family / friends on five. The company I work for does a hunting and or fishing trip just about every year, and I tend to be the go-to-answer guy for customers and am actually supposed to spend time with the guides rather than customers and get their take on things.
The big trip this year is AK fishing out of Sitka at the end of this week and then in Nov. their is a customer coming from PA that took a good 5x5 point and a doe last year using a 7mm mag and his brother (30-06) took a good 4x4 as well. I don't think he will do as well as last year, but here's hopeing.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
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105 here today! Thank god my loading room is in the house with AC cranked down to 64 degrees for my huskys and malamutes. Theyll die outside haha.
filmjunkie4ever
Handloader
- May 4, 2011
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I’m starting to think I’m dying, having to work out in this heat!
You all know where I stand, I love the .30-06, it’s my number one favorite rifle and cartridge.
But...
I do think a .280 is probably ALMOST as good.
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You all know where I stand, I love the .30-06, it’s my number one favorite rifle and cartridge.
But...
I do think a .280 is probably ALMOST as good.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, I have rifles chambered to all three cartridges in question I've killed some game off and on with the .270 and it's a nice cartridge. I probably have more game down from the 30-06 that anything else to be perfectly honest I started with the 06 in 1954 and literally used nothing else until 1973 when I bought my first .270 and a rifle in .308. Used the .308 for quite a while. When I decided to build a full blown custom I went with the .280. I haven't killed anything with it yet. I'd planned on using it on my elk hunt earlier this year but a crash twixt my pick up and dump truck put me in hospital during the time of the scheduled hunt so that rifle is still waiting it's turn.Too late to try and book a hunt for this year.
My take on the whole thing is it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. For most of the hunting I've done any one of the three would have worked just fine.
Sometime before the accident I was doing some playing with the 7x57 and with the right powder it snaps on the heels of the .280 real hard. I'm running 150 gr. Partition at 2880FPS from the 7x57 and 2880 FPS with the 160 gr. Speer Grand Slams from the .280. I haven't trie 160 gr. bullets in the 7x57 yet but I will.
As someone mentioned Jack O'Connor and his love for the .270, when at retirement as he was interviewed by Jim Carmichel who asked him what cartridge would he choose if he could only have one to hunt North America. Jack instantly said without hesitation, "The 30-06!" That from a man who could choose anything he wanted kind of says it all. My thoughts? Well, they're all good and I would not hesitate to use any of the three on any hunt I might do. However, I think I'd just go along with "Cactus" Jack.
Paul B.
My take on the whole thing is it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. For most of the hunting I've done any one of the three would have worked just fine.
Sometime before the accident I was doing some playing with the 7x57 and with the right powder it snaps on the heels of the .280 real hard. I'm running 150 gr. Partition at 2880FPS from the 7x57 and 2880 FPS with the 160 gr. Speer Grand Slams from the .280. I haven't trie 160 gr. bullets in the 7x57 yet but I will.
As someone mentioned Jack O'Connor and his love for the .270, when at retirement as he was interviewed by Jim Carmichel who asked him what cartridge would he choose if he could only have one to hunt North America. Jack instantly said without hesitation, "The 30-06!" That from a man who could choose anything he wanted kind of says it all. My thoughts? Well, they're all good and I would not hesitate to use any of the three on any hunt I might do. However, I think I'd just go along with "Cactus" Jack.
Paul B.
06 probably has an edge on heavy game but for the average person myself included it's all personal preference on what you like as the game isn't gonna ask about the cartridge stamp and the end result will be the same.
06 deserves some respect for it's longevity, popularity, and results for over 100 yrs now, but it's offspring is nothing to sneeze at either regardless of which 1 a person prefers.
06 deserves some respect for it's longevity, popularity, and results for over 100 yrs now, but it's offspring is nothing to sneeze at either regardless of which 1 a person prefers.
- Thread starter
- #36
HAWKEYESATX
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- Aug 15, 2016
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Yes, I am finding a new found respect for the .30-06!ShadeTree":3lnioae8 said:
It's longevity is quite an amazing story in itself. If it wasn't as good as it is, it would have gone the way of the Do-do.
Hawk
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- #37
HAWKEYESATX
Handloader
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Isn't this one of many things Jack O'Connor said to Jim Carmichael:
Jim Carmichael tells the story about getting a custom rifle made in .280 Remington. He told his friend, Jack O'Conner about the rifle.
Now, everyone knows that Jack O'Conner was the father of the modern popularity of the .270. When he asked Jim about the caliber of his new custom rifle, Carmichael, not wanting to hurt is old friend's feelings told him it was a .270, of course.
O'Conner told him, "you should have got the .280 - it's a better round."
Found this just a few minutes ago.
Hawk
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Jim Carmichael tells the story about getting a custom rifle made in .280 Remington. He told his friend, Jack O'Conner about the rifle.
Now, everyone knows that Jack O'Conner was the father of the modern popularity of the .270. When he asked Jim about the caliber of his new custom rifle, Carmichael, not wanting to hurt is old friend's feelings told him it was a .270, of course.
O'Conner told him, "you should have got the .280 - it's a better round."
Found this just a few minutes ago.
Hawk
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Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
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Along these lines - since the 30-06 is the parent cartridge...
I think that if I ever shoot-out my 25-06, and that was a real possibility the first few years that I had it. :grin: I'd get it re-bored or re-barreled to 6.5-06...
The 270 is great! I sometimes can't believe that I've never owned one!
The 280 and 280 AI are terrific! Again, I've "almost" bitten, but not yet...
The original, the 30-06 is capable of far more than many believe. Shoots flatter than many believe too... Just have to load it right.
The 338-06 intrigues me.
As does the 35 Whelen...
Can I count the 9.3x62 here? It's not quite the same, but I know people who make their 9.3 brass by necking up 30-06 brass...
Met a fellow last year who uses a 400 Whelen built on a Springfield. Wonderful rifle!
All good stuff. Guy
I think that if I ever shoot-out my 25-06, and that was a real possibility the first few years that I had it. :grin: I'd get it re-bored or re-barreled to 6.5-06...
The 270 is great! I sometimes can't believe that I've never owned one!
The 280 and 280 AI are terrific! Again, I've "almost" bitten, but not yet...
The original, the 30-06 is capable of far more than many believe. Shoots flatter than many believe too... Just have to load it right.
The 338-06 intrigues me.
As does the 35 Whelen...
Can I count the 9.3x62 here? It's not quite the same, but I know people who make their 9.3 brass by necking up 30-06 brass...
Met a fellow last year who uses a 400 Whelen built on a Springfield. Wonderful rifle!
All good stuff. Guy
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- #39
HAWKEYESATX
Handloader
- Aug 15, 2016
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The .30-06 handloaded is a different animal, compared to the factory ammo.Guy Miner":3c8r1u9b said:
I read in a Guns&Ammo article back in the 90's, authored, I believe, by Mike Venterino, about shooting .25 of a mile = 440 yds, and he shot the same popular calibers we have been discussing. Now, the .270 won that contest, not by much. The .308 Win was close on it's heels, then the .25-06, and then .30-06! The .270, and .308 are loaded in factory form very close to what they should be, along with the .25-06. For some unknown reason, the .30-06 had even slower velocities than the .308, and dropped the most, due to lack of velocity.
With that being said, I wouldn't use Winchester, or Remington regular brand ammo. I would probably use the Hornady Whitetail loads, along with Superformance ammo.
But, as Guy has said, handloading ups the performance more, and that encourages me to want to try the 06, and handload for it first.
If I do get an 06, I think the heaviest bullet weight would be a 180 gr pill, with a nice boat tail to it, like a Nosler AB, and the heaviest animal I want to hunt, is elk.
I at one time wanted to try a 6.5-06, but realized it isn't better than the .270 Win.
Hey, Guy, why not come over to the .280 side? I think you'd like it as well. I won´t say you'll like it better than your .30-06, but it might actually make an impression on you.
Hawk
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Warms my heart to hear folks speaking kindly of the good old 280. A hundred years ago when I was 15 my dad told me he would go halfers with me on a new rifle if I would hand my 308 down to my little brother to start hunting with. I immediately told him I needed the new remington 700 mountain rifle chambered in 280 remington. Back then I read every hunting rag I could get ahold of and every hunting rag had a 270 vs 280 vs 30-06 article, almost no exceptions, and every one of those articles proved to this young man that the 280 was vastly superior to the other two. Since then I've learned the 06 is very nearly just as good, elk simply can't argue with it. I have great respect for the 270, I'm just not that kind of person, not when there's 280's in the world. Great thread guys, enjoyed reading
