Is the .30-06 that much better than my .280 Remington

[HAWKEYESATX]

Warms my heart to hear folks speaking kindly of the good old 280. A hundred years ago when I was 15 my dad told me he would go halfers with me on a new rifle if I would hand my 308 down to my little brother to start hunting with. I immediately told him I needed the new remington 700 mountain rifle chambered in 280 remington. Back then I read every hunting rag I could get ahold of and every hunting rag had a 270 vs 280 vs 30-06 article, almost no exceptions, and every one of those articles proved to this young man that the 280 was vastly superior to the other two. Since then I've learned the 06 is very nearly just as good, elk simply can't argue with it. I have great respect for the 270, I'm just not that kind of person, not when there's 280's in the world. Great thread guys, enjoyed reading

I know, it's a breath of fresh air to see everyone on this post getting along.
Nobody is putting down the .280, or the .30-06.
I have to be honest, and say the major reason I went with my TC Venture in .280, is because I'm starting to have back problems, and I still want to be able to get out and hunt, and love doing it. I have read, that the .280 recoil, while noticeable, isn't any different than a .270 Win.
Now, if my back gets bad enough, I can always load down on the .280, and get 7mm Mauser velocities, and recoil.
I´m hesitant sometimes to get an 06, because I know they can be real thumpers with the heavier bullets, and it might aggravate my back in the future.
Plus, the 7mm bullets are almost as plentiful in bullet weights as the good .30 cal bullets are.
It piques my interest to see the veteran hunters, and shooters on here giving real world accounts, and not boasting, as some can be, about the .280 Rem, and the 06.

Thank you for sharing as well.

Hawk

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[Guy Miner]

Ah, the 280 is great, but I've already taken elk, grizzly, black bear, mule deer, antelope and wolf with the 30-06... So... I don't know what the 280 would do for me.

And... If I want a .284" bullet, I do have this cool 26" barreled Ruger Number One in 7mm Rem Mag... :grin:

Ya, I know, that's cheating.

Honestly though, JD338's .280 ballistics are very close to what my 7mm mag produces....

Those 30-06 based cartridges all seem to be winners.

Guy

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Ah, the 280 is great, but I've already taken elk, grizzly, black bear, mule deer, antelope and wolf with the 30-06... So... I don't know what the 280 would do for me.

And... If I want a .284" bullet, I do have this cool 26" barreled Ruger Number One in 7mm Rem Mag... :grin:

Ya, I know, that's cheating.

Honestly though, JD338's .280 ballistics are very close to what my 7mm mag produces....

Those 30-06 based cartridges all seem to be winners.

Guy

LOL Figured you'd say that.
No worries, just having fun. And yes, the 7mm Rem Mag is another story, but quite impressive.

Hawk

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[ShadeTree]

This doesn't have anything to do with performance, and doesn't apply to knowledgeable reloaders, but another plus for the 06 that can't be overlooked in times like these, is the advantage of the 06's popularity for so long.

I've never paid a single red cent for any of my 06 brass and have hundreds of once fired brass I've never loaded yet. Not hard to find people to give you their once fired factory brass. I'm even fussy about what I get. Remington brass is what I've used to develop loads, and it comprises 90% of my 06 brass.

In a good chamber the 30-06 is easy on brass. I'm currently using a box of 18, and am over 10 loadings on that brass with no signs of slowing down as of yet.

Ammo shelves are bare in most local gun stores, but you can still buy 06 ammo in any of them from what I've seen around here, and not forfeit your right arm to buy it.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

That’s a great point about brass Shade Tree.

The fact that ammo and components are literally everywhere was a huge plus in favor of the .30-06 when I bought mine almost 20 years ago. I like you have made considerable use of good quality brass at little or no cost. However in recent years I’ve ponied up for some good Nosler brass.

I don’t run my reloads much if any hotter than the advertised muzzle velocities of the corresponding factory ammo in each given bullet weight. My brass lasts longer, as well as my barrel and it’s easier on the shoulder. And let’s face it, 85% of the game I have taken has been inside of 250 yards so 100 fps one way or another hardly matters to me although I know for some it’s more important.

As Townsend Whelen put it, a .30-06 is never a bad decision. And again, I’m not sure there is enough real work difference between it and a .280 to truly matter. What the one will do, the other will probably do.


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[Guy Miner]

On my drive to Fairbanks from Washington State three years ago - I took my time - camped almost every night on the way up.

Also made a point in most towns where I stopped to see what was available in the way of rifle ammo. The most universally available ammo was 30-06 of some sort.

The 300 Win mag also seemed popular.

As I got farther north, I started seeing a box or two of 375's on the shelf even at smaller shops.

When I got to Tok, Alaska - there was a big sporting goods store with an amazing variety of firearms and ammo. I swear, that place had pretty much everything. :grin:

Guy

 

[preacher]

I think I've killed more game with 139-150gr in the .280. Those were even taken in just 2 rifles, first was a Mod 77 .280 (that got me started in handloading) and 15yrs later, a Mod 700 Mnt rifle 280 reamed to the Ackley Improved. The Ruger was pure death with the 150 corlokt factory load and the next year, my handloaded 139 Hornady. But then, I just "had to have a 7mm Rem Mag". Traded the 280 off when my little wife gave me the Mag for xmas. Only animals I ever killed with it was with the 150PT. I loaded the 120 barnes & 160 NP , 150 Clkt for others, so I "vicariously" claim them, ha. I've owned more .270s through the years ( I'm on number 11 now!) and have killed exactly 1 jackrabbit and finished off a spanish goat. ha I "wanted" the 84L Classic in 30-06, but only one I could find was this one in .270. No matter, ha. With Life being so "short", I have swung back to the 30 calibers...300WM, 300WSM and, yes another 30-06! I just like the "hammer" effect I have seen with bigger guns on game, I'm not concerned about every ounce of meat ( or even a few pounds, ha!) But overall, IF I had a fine shooting .280 and I liked the rifle ( for me thats 80%) and IF I could leave "well enough alone and not have it Ackleyed" sure, a .280 is wonderful! Now....the new 190 Nosler AccuBond in the 24" 30-06....? ha

 

[SJB358]

I think the saying goes trying to figure out the difference between those three “is like counting angels on the tip of a pin head”.

I can’t honestly see much difference in killing deer between a 22-250 up through any of the 06 based cartridges using good bullets myself. Some die fast, some die right away, some run 50 yards, but I haven’t seen much correlation to death myself.

I like the thread though. Pretty sure we all have a little emotion wrapped around our favorites as well. That may help a bit with killing “power”.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

One of many reasons why I would like to get a .30-06 has been stated above. You can anywhere and find ammo for it.
Nowadays, it's prudent to have a cartridge that is plentiful to find, and inexpensive.

Hawk

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[6mm Remington]

I love them both and they are both fantastic. One is not better than the other. I sold my 280 Remington as I wanted to get a 280 in a controlled round feed rifle like a Ruger MKII or a Winchester Model 70. For a few years I did not have a 280 in my stable. Fast forward just a bit and I made a Winchester Model 70 into a 280AI. I love that thing and it is right there with the 7mm mag. but it is truly not much more than you can get out of a regular 280 Remington loaded to modern pressure standards.

280 Remington: 140 gr. Nosler solid base boattail until they were no longer produced. Then it was the 140 gr. Partition. Took several elk, deer, and antelope with the 280.

280AI: Use either Nosler 140 gr. Accubonds or Partitions. So far it's taken antelope, elk, and a grizzly bear! Only bullet weights and bullets I will likely ever use.

30-06: 165 gr. Nosler solid base boattail until no longer produced. Then went to either the 165 gr. Partition or AccuBond. Have never loaded any other bullets in it or used any other weight bullet in it. Black bear, antelope, deer, and elk have fallen to the 30-06. I took one antelope at 500 plus yards with my 30-06.

Loads: This is how it shook out for me. Sure some newer powders would certainly produce even faster loads but this sure works.

280 Remington. 22" barreled Mountain Rifle
140 gr. Nosler at 2940 fps using IMR4350

280 AI - 24" Shilen match barrel
140 gr. Nosler AccuBond 3186 fps - 140 gr. Partition 3230 fps - both loads using IMR7828SSC

30-06: 26" barrel Ruger 1B
165 gr. Partition or AccuBond 2940 fps using IMR4350

 

[clearwater]

"212 in an 06? No lol. Has the trajectory of a rock, no thanks haha. 280 beats it anyday ballistically, plus the SDs of the 7s are a better."

My 90 years old Springfield begs to differ. with rx17 the 212 makes 2610 fps.

Zeroed at 200 it drops only 23.7" at 400. At 1000 yards it has more retained energy than the 280 ai with similar bullets. And has better SD than the 175 grain 7mm.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Table # 1 .30-06, 212 gr Hornady ELD-X, BC .663, SD .319, 2610 fps
Table #2 .280 Rem, 175 gr Hornady ELD-X, BC .689, SD .311, 2834 fps, RL-26 56.5 grs., 60k psi ( 50k CUP )

Both aren't slouches, but advantage, .280 Rem.

Hawk

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[HAWKEYESATX]

Here's a .280 Rem table, using same said bullet above, same everything, except using RL-22, 54.4 grs, and 2771 fps, 60k psi ( 50k CUP )
Almost equal to the 212 gr .30-06 load as mentioned.

Hawk

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[remingtonman_25_06]

I'm not going to get into ballistics and split hairs, as its personal preference, but I'd rather have a 280 for 1000 yards than a 3006. The 280 either beats it, or is equal in every way. The 280 drops and drifts considerably less matter of fact, energy and retained velocity is about identical. I'm using the 180g in a 7mm since you're using a 212 in an 06 to keep it apples to apples, both which have identical SDs.

 

[SJB358]

I'm not going to get into ballistics and split hairs, as its personal preference, but I'd rather have a 280 for 1000 yards than a 3006. The 280 either beats it, or is equal in every way. The 280 drops and drifts considerably less matter of fact, energy and retained velocity is about identical. I'm using the 180g in a 7mm since you're using a 212 in an 06 to keep it apples to apples, both which have identical SDs.

Definitely agree, it's hair splitting at the extreme.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I'm not going to get into ballistics and split hairs, as its personal preference, but I'd rather have a 280 for 1000 yards than a 3006. The 280 either beats it, or is equal in every way. The 280 drops and drifts considerably less matter of fact, energy and retained velocity is about identical. I'm using the 180g in a 7mm since you're using a 212 in an 06 to keep it apples to apples, both which have identical SDs.

Agreed!

Hawk

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[HAWKEYESATX]

I'm not going to get into ballistics and split hairs, as its personal preference, but I'd rather have a 280 for 1000 yards than a 3006. The 280 either beats it, or is equal in every way. The 280 drops and drifts considerably less matter of fact, energy and retained velocity is about identical. I'm using the 180g in a 7mm since you're using a 212 in an 06 to keep it apples to apples, both which have identical SDs.

Definitely agree, it's hair splitting at the extreme.

Agree with you there!
They´re neck and neck.

Hawk

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[clearwater]

Table # 1 .30-06, 212 gr Hornady ELD-X, BC .663, SD .319, 2610 fps
Table #2 .280 Rem, 175 gr Hornady ELD-X, BC .689, SD .311, 2834 fps, RL-26 56.5 grs., 60k psi ( 50k CUP )

Both aren't slouches, but advantage, .280 Rem.

Hawk

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Well, if you can find me some rx26, the fps goes up by 100 in the 06.

However, my range finder seems to get all wobbly when I look past a quarter mile, and I have never taken a shot at an animal where I had to hold over fur, so this is probably all mute for me anyways.

Besides, if I was need'n to shoot some socialist's caliber I would use my 275 Rigby. The original 7mm cartridge.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I used the 60k psi 280 Rem data to compare apples to apples.
If we up the psi to 64k, close to .270 pressures, the 175gr ELD-X speed goes up to 2886 fps. That's quite amazing to me, because I remember about 20 years ago, or so, that the 7mm Rem Mag factory 175gr load was supposed to get 2850 fps.
But to me, it looks like they're neck and neck, no difference, other than caliber size, and the .30 call being .024 in greater diameter.
I doubt any game animal would be able to tell the difference. Dead is dead, no matter what caliber we use. Plus, the older I get, the less need I have to use a rifle combination that doesn't have to belt me senseless. I'm getting more into precision, and using just enough to get things done, than when I was younger, and the more powerful, and how the cartridge belted me made me feel.
I've always been a huge proponent of shot placement, and make your first shot count. My personal motto, same as legendary Carlos Hathcock's motto, One Shot, One Kill.
If you're the kind of hunter that loves the .30-06, great! More power to you! I'm not going to argue with your success. The 06 is a proven performer. Just ask Guy.
For me, I like the higher ballistic coefficient, and sectional density of the 7mm bullet. Plus, I don't think the .280 will belt me as hard as an 06 either. To me, that's a win win. And if I can get the same performance, or just a hair under, the 06, then I thinks it's the perfect cartridge for me.

Hawk

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[preacher]

I know this is just MY opinion, but I honestly do think that the 30-06 with Monos or 200gr anything IS better for Elk and big hogs. And I have seen it do wonders on varmints to deer with the 125 Ballistic tip! Got to love "both ends of the spectrum"! ha I would love to wade into a sounder of big hogs with an '06 and the 240 Woodleigh some day! Wow!