Ladder Test

[ScreaminEagle]

I usually give my barrel time by taking notes, shooting a different gun, etc.

 

[Elkman]

You can actually color the bullets. I use a sharpie and paint the front half of the bullet. You have to use different tints however, for example blue and black are too close together. Green and Red work great, as do Green, Red, Black and no color. Last week for example with three separate loads I color coded two of the three and left the third uncolored. Hence three separate colors.

 

[jimbo88mm]

+1 to what Elkman said. I've used the sharpie method too. Here is a photo of from one of my ladder tests. This was from my AR. I used white poster board for my target. The colors show up real good after you push the holes closed from behind:

 

[bullet]

I am going to do this ladder test, “round robin”, five separate POA, POA1(20,15,10,5), POA2(19,14,9,4), POA3(18,13,8,3), POA4(17,12,7,2), POA5(16,11,6,1). Helps eliminate barrel walking accuracy issues and eases me into my max load.

 

[bullet]

I will still be in effect doing a ladder test only it will be round robin allowing me to reduce or eliminate the barrel walking but also allows me to ease into the max load which is wise. It will also be like the ladder test in that I will shoot a 4' by 4' cardboard target with 5 different diamond shaped aiming points. Once I do the five groups (that will be plotted during the shooting on an exact replica of the target) at 200yds, I will over lay the targets to pin point my node preferences to determine the load that should be the most accurate. I hope to post results Wednesday or Thursday of next week.

 

[FOTIS]

Sweet Can not wait for results

 

[bullet]

Sweet Can not wait for results

Ο 30-06 δεν είναι ποτέ ένα λάθος

 

[bullet]

Due to predicted wind by weather channel test will be shot Wednesday morning.

 

[bullet]

 

[russ808]

Black and Gold. Nice.
Russ

 

[FOTIS]

Sweet Can not wait for results

Ο 30-06 δεν είναι ποτέ ένα λάθος

I concur! :mrgreen:

 

[bullet]

Sweet Can not wait for results

Ο 30-06 δεν είναι ποτέ ένα λάθος

I concur! :mrgreen:

Hey, I didn't know you read Greek :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: Yeah, that is my new sig line :grin:

 

[bullet]

I blew the round robin by mistakenly shooting the first round #20 (55.6grs) at one target and the second round #15 (57.1grs) at another target. So, I dumped the round robin and started on the second target that I shot #15 and began with #16 then #14 and up to #1 using the same POA.


The following is my target at 200yds shooting from #16 (56.8grs) up to #1 (61.3grs). On the target below I have grouped the the four, four shot groups and numbered them 1,2,3 and 4. Group 1 is (56.8grs to 57.7grs) Group 2 is (58.0grs to 58.9grs) Group 3 is (59.2grs to 60.1grs) (this group having two flyers which were the lower charges of 59.2 and 59.5) Group 4 is (60.4grs to 61.3grs).

There were no pressures signs on the brass or extraction problems with the top charge of 61.3grs and you will note the brass in the second picture. Group four grouped together well when one considers the charge spread and not any two were loaded the same and velocities were from 2754fps to 2782fps. I will be taking these four charges and loading them in five shot groups and the most accurate of the four five shot groups will of course win the day.

You will note that Group 4 (which were my top charges) are represented by the top row and the last four cases from right to left.

 

[bullet]

The spread of all 16 shots was 10.800" not bad for none of the loads being the same.

Group four spread was also not bad.

 

[bullet]

Well, it is all a bust. Quick Load said I would get near 2785fps out of a 22" barrel with the 180gr BT if a near max load of 63.1 was used. Well, it is not a max load although close, but the problem was my Chronograph was in the direct sun at an angle yesterday and it influenced my chronograph saying it was getting 2754-2782fps. So I thought things were great, but I did not use a shade like I have always done at that time in the morning because of the way our range is set up.

Well I should have used a shade. I went earlier this morning and there was no direct sun light on my chronograph and the the chrony read 169fps slower on the average when I was testing loads that came from the sweet spot in my ladder test. So, I took my 7mm08 and fired my hunting load across the chronograph and it read like it always has 2802fps. Then I thought back to yesterday and realized I did not have my shade up to block the angled sun.

So in essence, instead of getting like Q/L said 2785fps, I am in reality getting 2616fps on average with the top charge. It shot pretty good today but much to slow. This is not the only time in my load work that Q/L which is just an estimator was way off in fps. Nothing like actually shooting your loads to see how it really works out in real life. This should be a warning that those who are shooting loads from Q/L and assume you are getting the velocities that Q/L says you are and you are not using a chronograph your load might not even be close to what Q/L estimated.

Q/L makes no one an authority on what a load will do and those who use it to back up some point or prove some argument need to realize they don't really know what they are talking about unless they have shot the load over a chronograph. Just because you can use a program on a computer does not mean you know what you are talking about. I double checked this morning by using a back chronograph and it proved the velocities were over 100fps below Q/L's prediction.

Below is the target showing how IMR7828 did in my rifle which was not bad but I will be going back to IMR4350 and a few other powders I know give me over 2700fps with the 180gr. Lesson learned that IMR7828 is not a good choice for the 30-06 and that Q/L is not a final word on velocities (which I already knew) and also to shade my chronograph from certain angled sun light - and also fire a few at the end of the day if in doubt over a second chronograph.

 

[SJB358]

Mike, whats the internal H20 capacity of your fired 30-06 cases. I have seen enough of a difference in speeds, that if that is not entered into the program, the spreads can be similar to what you are showing, while, I have seen cartridges like the 264 Win Mag, shoot almost right on the QL predictions if all the data is entered as accurately as possible.

Great points though, the chrono/rifle are still the bottom line.

 

[FOTIS]

Weigh a few of the Hornady cases and compare to Win/Rem......

 

[bullet]

Mike, whats the internal H20 capacity of your fired 30-06 cases. I have seen enough of a difference in speeds, that if that is not entered into the program, the spreads can be similar to what you are showing, while, I have seen cartridges like the 264 Win Mag, shoot almost right on the QL predictions if all the data is entered as accurately as possible.

Great points though, the chrono/rifle are still the bottom line.

Yes, I have had velocities pretty close to Q/L but the data was entered correctly and I have had this happen more than once. Q/L is a valuable tool and I have really enjoyed its predictions and new powder options that I nor the load books consider, but when all is said and done, you got to go and shoot it across a chronograph (correctly used :mrgreen: ) to know for sure. I also believe that Q/L near max loads have also caused some reloaders problems. It is only and estimator although a good one but it is not a replacement for actual field and range trials.

 

[bullet]

Weigh a few of the Hornady cases and compare to Win/Rem......

I fired Hornady for ladder test and also tried Win brass this morning along with the groups in Hornday brass and they are all in the same neighbor hood between 2610fps and 2628fps. Look, you know me the THINKER, I don't leave many rocks unturned. :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

It is only and estimator although a good one but it is not a replacement for actual field and range trials.

Totally agree. Works well for load work, but you are dead right, no replacement for putting lead downrange.