Ladder Test

[FOTIS]

Weigh a few of the Hornady cases and compare to Win/Rem......

I fired Hornady for ladder test and also tried Win brass this morning along with the groups in Hornday brass and they are all in the same neighbor hood between 2610fps and 2628fps. Look, you know me the THINKER, I don't leave many rocks unturned. :mrgreen:

No..... what I wanted to know is if they are different from the hornady brass. Heavier lighter etc.

 

[bullet]

Weigh a few of the Hornady cases and compare to Win/Rem......

I fired Hornady for ladder test and also tried Win brass this morning along with the groups in Hornday brass and they are all in the same neighbor hood between 2610fps and 2628fps. Look, you know me the THINKER, I don't leave many rocks unturned. :mrgreen:

No..... what I wanted to know is if they are different from the hornady brass. Heavier lighter etc.

I weighed the Hornady but not the Winchester, I will go weigh some here and see how the lot of Win brass I used compares. Sorry, you did not write it in Greek which would have been more precise and I would have understood exactly what you meant. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[bullet]

FOTIS the difference in average was Win 186.0grs and Hornady was 174.6 grs making a difference of 11.4grs.

 

[FOTIS]

So provided the outside dimensions are identical the winchester must have thicker walls and should be less capacious.

 

[bullet]

So provided the outside dimensions are identical the winchester must have thicker walls and should be less capacious.

Just measured the dimensions and they are about the same at base shoulder and neck. Also, 63.1grs of IMR7828 in the Win brass went up some into the neck and with the Hornady brass 63.1grs of iMR7828 came almost to the bottom of the neck (these were both vibrated to settle the charge).

 

[SJB358]

So provided the outside dimensions are identical the winchester must have thicker walls and should be less capacious.

Just measured the dimensions and they are about the same at base shoulder and neck. Also, 63.1grs of IMR7828 in the Win brass went up some into the neck and with the Hornady brass 63.1grs of iMR7828 came almost to the bottom of the neck (these were both vibrated to settle the charge).

What about H20 capacity Mike? I know the weight of the case tells us something, but I would think the H20 cap would be a clear answer?

 

[bullet]

So provided the outside dimensions are identical the winchester must have thicker walls and should be less capacious.

Just measured the dimensions and they are about the same at base shoulder and neck. Also, 63.1grs of IMR7828 in the Win brass went up some into the neck and with the Hornady brass 63.1grs of iMR7828 came almost to the bottom of the neck (these were both vibrated to settle the charge).

What about H20 capacity Mike? I know the weight of the case tells us something, but I would think the H20 cap would be a clear answer?

Well, let me do that sure will in a little bit. Got some popcorn,might want to pop some and enjoy it while I do this little test. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[bullet]

Brand new unfired Hornady brass was 68.4grs of water and Winchester once fired was 67.7grs of water.

 

[SJB358]

So, about a grain or a little more. Nothing really significant, but still there.. Thanks Mike. Good exercise. I don't imagine that makes too much difference though.

 

[bullet]

So, about a grain or a little more. Nothing really significant, but still there.. Thanks Mike. Good exercise. I don't imagine that makes too much difference though.

Hey man, great picture that is funny and cool, way to go, love a sense of humor. I agree, that it does not make much of a difference except I did not have a new unfired piece of Win brass which would have held less than the once fired since the brass expanded and the neck grew. Might be a slight difference. Think I will now weigh a once fired Hornady and see to give us a better idea. :mrgreen: Hey, don't eat the popcorn to fast, this show ain't over. :lol:

 

[bullet]

Hey, I think we might have a big difference! Once fired Hornady held 70.1grs of water :shock: That is a 2.4gr difference now that would start to make at least a little difference.

 

[SJB358]

Hey, I think we might have a big difference! Once fired Hornady held 70.1grs of water :shock: That is a 2.4gr difference now that would start to make at least a little difference.

AH HA! Yeah, now were talking Mike. That seems to make a bigger difference in QL when you factor that back into your loads.

I imagine that 2.4 grain difference would get you to where you are thinking QL is predicting, or at least in that ballpark?

Now I am standing by!

 

[OU812]

I have heard of the ladder test and seen results of said test but what is the purpose behind it?

 

[bullet]

I have heard of the ladder test and seen results of said test but what is the purpose behind it?

less components used to find the accurate load by looking at the sweet spot on the ladder test target which shows you what loads will more than likely work well in your rifle instead of starting low with three or five shot groups working all the way up to max wasting a lot of powder, primers, and bullets not to mention the fired brass. Instead of 50 rounds looking for the sweet load I used 25 total and check out a much bigger spread of loads and at smaller increments. If one was to do six grain spread at just tree rounds per load that would be 20 times three and that is sixty loads. If you did groups of five you would be looking at 100 rounds to accomplish what I did with 25 total. Not only that, when you are not sure of a powders use with a certain cartridge you have a very safe way to work up to what is the max load without guessing or getting yourself into trouble.

 

[bullet]

Hey, I think we might have a big difference! Once fired Hornady held 70.1grs of water :shock: That is a 2.4gr difference now that would start to make at least a little difference.

AH HA! Yeah, now were talking Mike. That seems to make a bigger difference in QL when you factor that back into your loads.

I imagine that 2.4 grain difference would get you to where you are thinking QL is predicting, or at least in that ballpark?

Now I am standing by!

You just might be right, but the pressures I am afraid would put me over max to accomplish such a little gain that I can get with just using some powders I know will put me over the 2700fps without possibly going past max.

 

[SJB358]

Hey, I think we might have a big difference! Once fired Hornady held 70.1grs of water :shock: That is a 2.4gr difference now that would start to make at least a little difference.

AH HA! Yeah, now were talking Mike. That seems to make a bigger difference in QL when you factor that back into your loads.

I imagine that 2.4 grain difference would get you to where you are thinking QL is predicting, or at least in that ballpark?

Now I am standing by!

You just might be right, but the pressures I am afraid would put me over max to accomplish such a little gain that I can get with just using some powders I know will put me over the 2700fps without possibly going past max.

Got ya, seems like 7828 would run outta space before you hit pressures? I guess it is all in the works though Mike. I have seen people do pretty well with RL22 in the 30-06 with 180's. Seems like Nosler has that as a great one as well..

 

[OU812]

I have heard of the ladder test and seen results of said test but what is the purpose behind it?

less components used to find the accurate load by looking at the sweet spot on the ladder test target which shows you what loads will more than likely work well in your rifle instead of starting low with three or five shot groups working all the way up to max wasting a lot of powder, primers, and bullets not to mention the fired brass. Instead of 50 rounds looking for the sweet load I used 25 total and check out a much bigger spread of loads and at smaller increments. If one was to do six grain spread at just tree rounds per load that would be 20 times three and that is sixty loads. If you did groups of five you would be looking at 100 rounds to accomplish what I did with 25 total. Not only that, when you are not sure of a powders use with a certain cartridge you have a very safe way to work up to what is the max load without guessing or getting yourself into trouble.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense I guess. I must just lucky when it comes to finding an accurate load for a rifle. When using a bullet and preferred powder suitable for the caliber I have never even shot 25 rounds to do so.

Carry on.

 

[bullet]

I have heard of the ladder test and seen results of said test but what is the purpose behind it?

less components used to find the accurate load by looking at the sweet spot on the ladder test target which shows you what loads will more than likely work well in your rifle instead of starting low with three or five shot groups working all the way up to max wasting a lot of powder, primers, and bullets not to mention the fired brass. Instead of 50 rounds looking for the sweet load I used 25 total and check out a much bigger spread of loads and at smaller increments. If one was to do six grain spread at just tree rounds per load that would be 20 times three and that is sixty loads. If you did groups of five you would be looking at 100 rounds to accomplish what I did with 25 total. Not only that, when you are not sure of a powders use with a certain cartridge you have a very safe way to work up to what is the max load without guessing or getting yourself into trouble.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense I guess. I must just lucky when it comes to finding an accurate load for a rifle. When using a bullet and preferred powder suitable for the caliber I have never even shot 25 rounds to do so.

Carry on.

It is not luck, you are working with a known powder that in general works for the cartridges you are using. Now you try a new powder that is not generally used for the cartridge at hand and you might give up before you find a good load assuming that the powder could not produce and accurate load but that would be far from what could happen if you used the ladder test. Without the ladder test you could strike out on a known general powder that is used by everybody because your rifle and chamber might not like the standard loads that seem to work for most everybody's rifle, and you would assume this usually used powder does not work in your rifle, but it just might if you do a ladder test.

 

[bullet]

Got ya, seems like 7828 would run outta space before you hit pressures? I guess it is all in the works though Mike. I have seen people do pretty well with RL22 in the 30-06 with 180's. Seems like Nosler has that as a great one as well..

I will be also working with RL-22 to see how it does as well as MRP. Of course you know that Q/L has RL-22 doing 52fps slower than IMR7828 for near max loads. Not through yet :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

I think MRP and Norma 204 used to be Bob Hagels favorites for the 180's in the 06.