M4 AR 5.56 NATO 77 gr. SMK/Burger OTM QL/Node/OBT Help

[longrangehunter]

So I need to find another load for the Noveske N4 5.56 NATO since I ran out of VV N140. This carbine does wear a 14.5" barrel.

MAST Brass Water capacity 30.68 grains (note: this was with a rounded to the top of the neck).
77 gr. SMK and/or 77 gr. Berger Tactical OTM
CCI-41 primer
2.260" C.O.A.L. plus or minus is possible but that's want I've been using to feed through the magazine.

I have on hand a lot of different powders that I'd like to use, too many to list them all but I'd like to find whatever QL shows for the best possible OBT/BA with a 14.5" barrel length for an accurate load (short range <200 yards). It would be great if the load would stay accurate out further since the gun wears a USO 1-8 BDC reticle for the 77 SMK, but honestly this gun is just for home defense and night time use while walking my Dog as protection from predators/wolves mainly.

I have some VV N133 and N130<2 lbs. each
Lots of RL-15 and RL-17 5-6 lbs. each
H414 >4 lbs.
H4895 >2 lbs.
H335 <3 lbs.
IMR 4320 <?>

I don't have much TAC left <1 lbs. or W 748 maybe 2 lbs. All my powder is stored in a shipping container outside so I'll may have something else I haven't thought of that might work?

If something pops up on QL that jumps out as being a super good powder I can more then likely get it in town? I just don't want to waste my time with something that wont work. This QL/Node/OBT thing shows a lot of promise so I'd like to see how well I can speed up the load development process.

Thanks in advance, I've used up most of what I had on hand so I need more ammo.

 

[longrangehunter]

As the water filled brass sat here for a while the water capacity is now 30.36 grains. The water no longer has a rounded top and is concave at the top of the neck.

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 70, Berger VLD G7 #22418
Useable Case Capaci: 26.366 grain H2O = 1.712 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61500 psi, or 424 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 2495 104.5 24.9 1.61 2772 99.9 61500 13163 0.799 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 102.3 26.2 1.70 2762 97.9 61500 13274 0.780 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 110.0 26.2 1.69 2751 98.7 60048 13432 0.805 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 108.6 27.0 1.75 2736 91.9 61500 13379 0.775 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 28.0 1.82 2726 92.7 55696 14255 0.792 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 97.4 25.5 1.65 2722 97.2 61500 12787 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 110.0 28.3 1.83 2705 87.0 57596 13584 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 110.0 28.3 1.83 2705 87.0 57596 13584 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 109.4 27.0 1.75 2681 87.6 61500 12689 0.777 ! Near Maximum !


Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 70, Berger VLD G7 #22418
Useable Case Capaci: 26.366 grain H2O = 1.712 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H414

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 89 22.96 2095 682 29029 9676 71.1 1.073
-18.0 92 23.53 2156 722 31170 10111 72.9 1.042
-16.0 94 24.11 2218 765 33486 10547 74.7 1.012
-14.0 96 24.68 2282 809 35979 10983 76.5 0.982
-12.0 98 25.26 2347 856 38716 11417 78.3 0.950
-10.0 100 25.83 2412 905 41673 11846 80.0 0.916
-08.0 103 26.40 2479 956 44892 12270 81.7 0.884
-06.0 105 26.98 2547 1009 48401 12685 83.4 0.853
-04.0 107 27.55 2617 1064 52234 13090 85.0 0.823
-02.0 109 28.13 2687 1122 56431 13483 86.6 0.793 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 112 28.70 2758 1182 61036 13861 88.1 0.765 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 114 29.27 2830 1245 66104 14222 89.5 0.737 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 116 29.85 2904 1310 71696 14562 90.9 0.710 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 118 30.42 2978 1378 77887 14880 92.2 0.684 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 121 31.00 3053 1449 84768 15173 93.4 0.659 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 123 31.57 3130 1522 92442 15437 94.6 0.634 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 112 28.70 2950 1352 74434 14608 95.3 0.700 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 112 28.70 2530 995 49436 12478 77.7 0.845


Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 70, Berger VLD G7 #22418
Useable Case Capaci: 26.366 grain H2O = 1.712 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H335

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 75 20.00 2185 742 31758 10040 88.8 1.046
-18.0 77 20.50 2240 780 33923 10377 90.1 1.017
-16.0 79 21.00 2296 819 36234 10705 91.4 0.988
-14.0 81 21.50 2351 859 38706 11024 92.6 0.957
-12.0 83 22.00 2407 900 41349 11332 93.7 0.928
-10.0 85 22.50 2463 943 44144 11628 94.7 0.900
-08.0 87 23.00 2518 986 47114 11911 95.6 0.872
-06.0 89 23.50 2574 1030 50286 12179 96.5 0.846
-04.0 90 24.00 2630 1075 53675 12430 97.2 0.821 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 92 24.50 2686 1121 57299 12665 97.9 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 94 25.00 2742 1168 61177 12881 98.5 0.773 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 96 25.50 2797 1216 65330 13077 99.0 0.750 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 26.00 2853 1265 69782 13253 99.4 0.728 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 26.50 2908 1315 74560 13406 99.7 0.706 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 102 27.00 2963 1365 79694 13536 99.9 0.686 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 104 27.50 3018 1416 85219 13642 100.0 0.666 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 94 25.00 2867 1277 72752 12641 100.0 0.716 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 94 25.00 2573 1029 49845 12472 92.8 0.846


Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 70, Berger VLD G7 #22418
Useable Case Capaci: 26.366 grain H2O = 1.712 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 20.16 2176 736 31868 10134 83.5 1.052
-18.0 85 20.66 2233 775 34023 10502 84.9 1.023
-16.0 87 21.17 2290 815 36323 10864 86.3 0.995
-14.0 89 21.67 2347 856 38778 11221 87.7 0.964
-12.0 91 22.18 2405 899 41400 11571 89.0 0.934
-10.0 93 22.68 2463 943 44200 11912 90.2 0.905
-08.0 95 23.18 2521 988 47191 12243 91.4 0.877
-06.0 97 23.69 2579 1034 50389 12563 92.5 0.850
-04.0 100 24.19 2638 1081 53810 12870 93.5 0.824 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 102 24.70 2696 1130 57470 13164 94.5 0.799 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 25.20 2755 1180 61392 13442 95.4 0.774 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 25.70 2814 1231 65597 13705 96.3 0.751 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 26.21 2873 1283 70111 13949 97.0 0.728 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 26.71 2932 1336 74962 14174 97.7 0.706 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 27.22 2991 1391 80182 14379 98.3 0.685 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 27.72 3050 1446 85809 14562 98.8 0.665 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 25.20 2900 1307 73082 13589 99.3 0.716 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 25.20 2571 1027 50090 12693 87.9 0.850

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 70, Berger VLD G7 #22418
Useable Case Capaci: 26.366 grain H2O = 1.712 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 90 22.96 2121 699 28939 10248 76.3 1.071
-18.0 92 23.53 2184 741 31074 10737 78.4 1.040
-16.0 95 24.11 2249 786 33383 11225 80.4 1.008
-14.0 97 24.68 2315 833 35887 11707 82.4 0.978
-12.0 99 25.26 2382 882 38604 12180 84.4 0.946
-10.0 101 25.83 2450 933 41558 12642 86.3 0.912
-08.0 104 26.40 2520 987 44776 13090 88.1 0.880
-06.0 106 26.98 2591 1044 48284 13518 89.8 0.848
-04.0 108 27.55 2663 1102 52119 13926 91.4 0.818
-02.0 110 28.13 2736 1164 56321 14308 92.9 0.788 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 113 28.70 2810 1227 60936 14661 94.3 0.759 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 115 29.27 2885 1293 66020 14982 95.6 0.731 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 117 29.85 2960 1362 71638 15267 96.7 0.704 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 119 30.42 3036 1433 77861 15511 97.6 0.678 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 122 31.00 3113 1506 84791 15712 98.5 0.652 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 124 31.57 3190 1582 92533 15865 99.1 0.627 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 113 28.70 3003 1401 74008 14915 99.4 0.694 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 113 28.70 2567 1024 49530 13343 83.7 0.841


Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 70, Berger VLD G7 #22418
Useable Case Capaci: 26.366 grain H2O = 1.712 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 86 20.88 2155 722 30791 10079 80.5 1.062
-18.0 88 21.40 2213 761 32979 10465 82.1 1.032
-16.0 90 21.92 2272 802 35329 10847 83.6 1.003
-14.0 92 22.45 2331 844 37828 11225 85.1 0.974
-12.0 94 22.97 2390 888 40486 11595 86.5 0.942
-10.0 97 23.49 2450 933 43333 11959 87.9 0.912
-08.0 99 24.01 2511 980 46390 12313 89.2 0.882
-06.0 101 24.53 2572 1028 49673 12656 90.5 0.854
-04.0 103 25.06 2633 1077 53202 12987 91.7 0.827 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 105 25.58 2694 1128 57000 13305 92.8 0.801 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 26.10 2756 1181 61090 13607 93.9 0.775 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 110 26.62 2818 1234 65501 13892 94.8 0.750 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 112 27.14 2880 1290 70264 14159 95.7 0.727 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 114 27.67 2943 1346 75415 14406 96.6 0.704 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 116 28.19 3006 1404 80996 14631 97.3 0.681 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 118 28.71 3069 1464 87052 14833 98.0 0.660 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 26.10 2913 1319 73404 13894 98.6 0.714 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 26.10 2559 1018 49266 12701 85.5 0.854


Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 70, Berger VLD G7 #22418
Useable Case Capaci: 26.366 grain H2O = 1.712 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : IMR 4320

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 87 20.88 2150 718 31115 9704 80.9 1.042
-18.0 90 21.40 2207 757 33264 10080 82.4 1.012
-16.0 92 21.92 2264 797 35567 10453 84.0 0.983
-14.0 94 22.45 2322 838 38036 10820 85.5 0.953
-12.0 96 22.97 2381 881 40686 11180 86.9 0.923
-10.0 98 23.49 2441 926 43534 11533 88.3 0.893
-08.0 100 24.01 2501 972 46592 11876 89.6 0.865
-06.0 103 24.53 2561 1019 49896 12208 90.9 0.837
-04.0 105 25.06 2622 1068 53452 12527 92.1 0.811 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 107 25.58 2683 1119 57291 12832 93.2 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 109 26.10 2745 1171 61442 13121 94.3 0.760 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 111 26.62 2807 1225 65941 13392 95.3 0.736 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 27.14 2869 1280 70820 13643 96.2 0.713 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 116 27.67 2932 1336 76126 13873 97.0 0.690 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 118 28.19 2995 1394 81906 14081 97.7 0.668 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 120 28.71 3058 1454 88219 14263 98.3 0.647 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 26.10 2896 1304 73267 13373 98.9 0.703 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 26.10 2555 1015 50737 12249 86.0 0.831

 

[longrangehunter]

Mike, I only have 77 grain SMK's or 77 grain Berger OTM Tactical bullets......... sorry buddy. The P/N is 22101.

Can you run that with the 77 SMK's instead since I'm not sure where all those Berger's went.

 

[longrangehunter]

So I just noticed that the OBT page stops at a 16" barrel! So does anyone know how they calculated that data?

http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT%20Table.pdf

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 77, Berger OTM #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.628 grain H2O = 1.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : IMR 4320

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 86 20.00 2063 727 31211 9634 82.7 1.085
-18.0 88 20.50 2117 766 33333 9996 84.3 1.054
-16.0 90 21.00 2171 806 35600 10354 85.7 1.024
-14.0 93 21.50 2226 847 38037 10706 87.1 0.993
-12.0 95 22.00 2281 890 40643 11051 88.5 0.961
-10.0 97 22.50 2337 934 43436 11388 89.8 0.931
-08.0 99 23.00 2393 979 46434 11714 91.0 0.902
-06.0 101 23.50 2450 1026 49658 12029 92.2 0.874
-04.0 103 24.00 2507 1075 53125 12331 93.3 0.846 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 105 24.50 2564 1124 56860 12619 94.3 0.820 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 108 25.00 2622 1175 60887 12891 95.3 0.795 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 110 25.50 2679 1228 65239 13145 96.2 0.770 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 112 26.00 2738 1281 69946 13380 96.9 0.746 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 114 26.50 2796 1337 75051 13595 97.7 0.723 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 116 27.00 2854 1393 80594 13787 98.3 0.700 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 118 27.50 2913 1451 86630 13956 98.8 0.679 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 108 25.00 2761 1303 72599 13039 99.3 0.736 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 108 25.00 2446 1023 50283 12123 87.5 0.868

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 77, Berger OTM #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.628 grain H2O = 1.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 89 22.08 2051 719 29317 10353 78.9 1.108
-18.0 91 22.63 2111 762 31455 10826 81.0 1.076
-16.0 94 23.18 2173 807 33765 11293 82.9 1.044
-14.0 96 23.74 2236 855 36265 11753 84.8 1.012
-12.0 98 24.29 2300 904 38973 12202 86.7 0.979
-10.0 100 24.84 2364 956 41912 12638 88.4 0.944
-08.0 102 25.39 2430 1010 45106 13058 90.1 0.911
-06.0 105 25.94 2497 1066 48582 13457 91.6 0.879
-04.0 107 26.50 2564 1125 52368 13834 93.1 0.848
-02.0 109 27.05 2633 1185 56519 14185 94.4 0.817 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 111 27.60 2702 1248 61060 14507 95.6 0.788 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 114 28.15 2771 1313 66049 14796 96.7 0.760 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 116 28.70 2841 1380 71545 15049 97.6 0.732 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 118 29.26 2912 1450 77618 15263 98.4 0.706 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 120 29.81 2983 1521 84351 15434 99.1 0.680 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 123 30.36 3054 1595 91845 15559 99.5 0.654 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 111 27.60 2877 1416 74212 14571 99.8 0.722 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 111 27.60 2475 1048 49600 13375 85.8 0.872

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 77, Berger OTM #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.628 grain H2O = 1.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 20.00 2070 732 31081 10004 82.4 1.103
-18.0 87 20.50 2125 772 33258 10376 83.9 1.073
-16.0 89 21.00 2180 813 35562 10744 85.4 1.043
-14.0 91 21.50 2236 855 38008 11106 86.8 1.012
-12.0 93 22.00 2292 898 40623 11461 88.1 0.979
-10.0 95 22.50 2348 943 43423 11808 89.4 0.948
-08.0 97 23.00 2405 989 46423 12146 90.6 0.918
-06.0 99 23.50 2462 1036 49638 12472 91.8 0.890
-04.0 102 24.00 2519 1085 53085 12786 92.9 0.862 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 104 24.50 2577 1135 56786 13086 93.9 0.835 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 25.00 2634 1187 60762 13371 94.9 0.809 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 108 25.50 2692 1239 65038 13639 95.8 0.784 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 110 26.00 2750 1293 69643 13890 96.6 0.759 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 112 26.50 2808 1349 74610 14121 97.3 0.736 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 114 27.00 2867 1405 79973 14331 98.0 0.713 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 116 27.50 2925 1463 85776 14518 98.5 0.691 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 25.00 2779 1320 72844 13553 99.1 0.746 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 25.00 2451 1027 49156 12571 87.0 0.890

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 77, Berger OTM #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.628 grain H2O = 1.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H335

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 20.00 2187 818 35923 10463 92.6 1.033
-18.0 80 20.50 2242 859 38445 10780 93.7 1.002
-16.0 81 21.00 2296 902 41113 11084 94.7 0.970
-14.0 83 21.50 2351 945 43949 11376 95.7 0.940
-12.0 85 22.00 2405 989 46979 11652 96.6 0.910
-10.0 87 22.50 2460 1035 50218 11913 97.4 0.882
-08.0 89 23.00 2514 1081 53681 12157 98.0 0.855 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 91 23.50 2569 1128 57387 12382 98.6 0.829 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 93 24.00 2623 1176 61354 12586 99.1 0.804 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 95 24.50 2677 1225 65607 12771 99.5 0.779 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 97 25.00 2730 1275 70169 12932 99.8 0.756 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 99 25.50 2784 1325 75070 13071 99.9 0.734 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 26.00 2837 1376 80340 13185 100.0 0.712 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 26.50 2890 1428 86016 13281 100.0 0.691 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 105 27.00 2943 1481 92138 13371 100.0 0.671 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 107 27.50 2995 1534 98755 13457 100.0 0.651 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 25.00 2835 1375 83141 12501 100.0 0.704 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 25.00 2580 1138 57412 12859 95.9 0.825 ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 77, Berger OTM #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.628 grain H2O = 1.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 82 19.36 2094 750 32323 10070 85.4 1.090
-18.0 84 19.84 2148 789 34480 10423 86.8 1.060
-16.0 86 20.33 2202 829 36778 10771 88.1 1.031
-14.0 88 20.81 2256 870 39228 11113 89.4 0.999
-12.0 90 21.30 2310 913 41839 11446 90.6 0.968
-10.0 92 21.78 2365 956 44622 11770 91.7 0.938
-08.0 94 22.26 2419 1001 47591 12084 92.8 0.909
-06.0 96 22.75 2474 1047 50759 12386 93.8 0.882
-04.0 98 23.23 2529 1094 54140 12676 94.8 0.855 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 100 23.72 2584 1142 57753 12951 95.7 0.830 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 24.20 2639 1191 61615 13212 96.4 0.805 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 24.68 2694 1241 65749 13455 97.2 0.781 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 107 25.17 2749 1293 70176 13681 97.8 0.758 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 109 25.65 2804 1345 74924 13889 98.4 0.736 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 111 26.14 2860 1398 80022 14076 98.9 0.714 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 113 26.62 2915 1452 85503 14243 99.3 0.693 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 24.20 2772 1313 73186 13241 99.7 0.745 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 24.20 2468 1042 50387 12578 89.5 0.883

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 77, Berger OTM #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.628 grain H2O = 1.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H414

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 88 22.08 2024 700 29425 9743 73.4 1.111
-18.0 91 22.63 2082 741 31574 10168 75.2 1.079
-16.0 93 23.18 2141 784 33892 10593 76.9 1.047
-14.0 95 23.74 2202 829 36400 11017 78.6 1.016
-12.0 97 24.29 2263 876 39116 11436 80.3 0.983
-10.0 99 24.84 2326 925 42062 11851 82.0 0.949
-08.0 102 25.39 2389 976 45262 12259 83.6 0.916
-06.0 104 25.94 2453 1029 48737 12657 85.2 0.884
-04.0 106 26.50 2518 1084 52539 13045 86.7 0.853
-02.0 108 27.05 2584 1142 56685 13419 88.2 0.823 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 27.60 2651 1202 61223 13778 89.6 0.794 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 113 28.15 2719 1264 66203 14120 90.9 0.766 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 115 28.70 2787 1328 71686 14441 92.2 0.739 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 117 29.26 2857 1395 77733 14739 93.4 0.712 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 119 29.81 2927 1465 84435 15013 94.5 0.687 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 122 30.36 2998 1537 91885 15258 95.6 0.662 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 27.60 2829 1368 74729 14403 96.3 0.728 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 27.60 2437 1015 49549 12504 79.5 0.877

 

[DrMike]

Sorry about that, Kevin. I failed to read with sufficient care.

Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 77, Berger OTM #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.628 grain H2O = 1.664 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61500 psi, or 424 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 27.3 1.77 2659 94.9 58199 14311 0.806 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 108.6 25.9 1.68 2650 96.7 61500 13430 0.811 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 109.1 25.2 1.63 2649 99.4 61500 13148 0.828 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 103.0 23.8 1.54 2645 100.0 61500 12738 0.832 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 100.9 25.1 1.63 2641 98.6 61500 12975 0.813 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 110.0 27.5 1.78 2637 89.3 60235 13704 0.800 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 110.0 27.5 1.78 2637 89.3 60235 13704 0.800 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 107.2 25.9 1.68 2622 93.2 61500 13212 0.807 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 96.1 24.4 1.58 2603 98.0 61500 12512 0.819 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 108.2 25.9 1.68 2571 89.0 61500 12582 0.808 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 110.0 26.6 1.72 2566 91.5 54462 13438 0.844 ! Near Maximum !

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Of the powders you have...I'd bet on RL15 if it were me.

As far as nodes go...its some pretty complicated math to calculate it but give me a bit and I'll see what I can do.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

14.5" nodes are as follows...

Node 4 = .679 ms
Node 5 = .747 ms
Node 6 = .802 ms
Node 7 = .869 ms

I'm not sure how this will work out on an AR since the barrel cannot be truly free floating (gas tube or piston assembly is gonna be involved)...that will effect the harmonics/nodes.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

If you're up for trying something new...Hodgden CFE223 looks excellent to me (on QL) at around 26 grains.

 Cartridge          : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet             : .224, 77, Berger OTM G7 #22101
Useable Case Capaci: 25.347 grain H2O = 1.646 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.769% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-07.7   92    24.00   2419    1000   46163  12253     91.6    0.907
-06.9   93    24.20   2441    1019   47410  12381     92.1    0.895
-06.2   94    24.40   2464    1038   48695  12506     92.5    0.884
-05.4   94    24.60   2487    1058   50016  12630     93.0    0.873
-04.6   95    24.80   2510    1077   51382  12751     93.4    0.862
-03.8   96    25.00   2533    1097   52787  12869     93.8    0.851
-03.1   97    25.20   2555    1117   54235  12985     94.3    0.840  ! Near Maximum !
-02.3   98    25.40   2578    1137   55726  13099     94.7    0.830  ! Near Maximum !
-01.5   98    25.60   2601    1157   57265  13209     95.0    0.820  ! Near Maximum !
-00.8   99    25.80   2625    1178   58851  13317     95.4    0.809  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  100    26.00   2648    1199   60489  13422     95.8    0.799  ! Near Maximum !
+00.8  101    26.20   2671    1220   62176  13524     96.1    0.789  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5  101    26.40   2694    1241   63920  13622     96.5    0.779  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.3  102    26.60   2717    1262   65718  13717     96.8    0.770  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.1  103    26.80   2740    1284   67577  13809     97.1    0.760  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.8  104    27.00   2764    1306   69494  13898     97.4    0.750  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    100    26.00   2727    1272   66797  13550     98.2    0.766  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    100    26.00   2558    1119   54601  13112     92.3    0.837  ! Near Maximum !

 

[longrangehunter]

Thanks Lynn and Mike. The Nolser Manual shows RL-15 as the most accurate powder tested with their 77 CC Bullet. I will check the LGS for CFE 223 if the RL-15 doesn't work out, I believe the army had used RL-15 at one time in the 5.56 NATO, but I'll have to check my notes.

Thanks again.

 

[longrangehunter]

Looking at those numbers, does it not show H335 with almost 100% burn, and lowest psi, that's close to the node 6 @ .804 ms. Would that work well? I know I bought that powder years ago for the 223.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

H335 has long been a popular powder for 5.56/223...but I've never used it...I've loaded a good bit of 5.56/223 but I did most of it with Reloder 15 under 62 grain bullets. The particular AR I was loading for at the time had a 1 in 9" twist (early M&P 15)...

I think a slower powder will be better with the 75 and 77 grain bullets...but I have no experience to back that up, just hypothesis.

 

[Wyo7200]

The 7.62 rounds are using R-15. The 5.56 is still using the mil version of h335, according to an interweb search I did a few weeks ago... Could be wrong because w748 is pretty awesome too, and I've seen interweb reports saying its in mil rounds.

I'd honestly look at using a semi faster powder with that shorter of a barrel. H335 in my eyes should be fine.

My nodes for all the semi's are a little off from Chris longs table. When I adjust for burn rate and match the velocity to real world data, There always seems to be a node right before it gets into the "near maximum" loads. Some are within 2% of the Chris's node, others are in the middle.

I know there are more nodes after the 7th(?) listed in Chris's table- but something I've found trying a heavy bullet in blackout was that I couldn't get the velocity fast enough in a 16" barrel to reach any of his listed nodes.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

The 7.62 rounds are using R-15. The 5.56 is still using the mil version of h335, according to an interweb search I did a few weeks ago... Could be wrong because w748 is pretty awesome too, and I've seen interweb reports saying its in mil rounds.

I'd honestly look at using a semi faster powder with that shorter of a barrel. H335 in my eyes should be fine.

My nodes for all the semi's are a little off from Chris longs table. When I adjust for burn rate and match the velocity to real world data, There always seems to be a node right before it gets into the "near maximum" loads. Some are within 2% of the Chris's node, others are in the middle.

I know there are more nodes after the 7th(?) listed in Chris's table- but something I've found trying a heavy bullet in blackout was that I couldn't get the velocity fast enough in a 16" barrel to reach any of his listed nodes.

Node 8 in a 16" barrel is 1.018 ms.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Whats barrel length got to do with which powder?

As long as it stays within reason (limited by case capacity/bullet weight, not barrel length)...the slower powder will always give the best velocity...I believe using any powder that generates at least 60,000 psi with at least 95+% combustion is fine.

Examples are the 4350 powders in 30-06...57.5 grains a tried and true OBT load with 165 grain bullets...its only 97% powder burn with either version of the powder...even Varget doesn't get complete burn in the 30-06 with 165 grain bullets...H4895 only with loads near max...

Powder burn % isn't exactly a function of powder burn speed...at least not solely dependent on powder burn speed...operating pressure and case capacity are just as much to blame for burn % as anything else....but most of all, burn % depends on whether its a single base or double base powder and how they're coated.

Single base powders are generally harder to burn and less energetic (both IMR and H4350))...double base powders (such as Reloder 22, MRP, and similar) have a good dose of nitroglycerin in them, that makes them easier to burn...much easier...double base has its downsides too, but the pros usually outweigh the cons...that nitro content is what gives powders such as RL22 and MRP their versatility..allowing them to get properly ignited when single base powders in that burn range may not do so well....its also what gives them their temp sensitivity, when they're not properly coated.

Looking at the new powders coming out lately...many of which are double base...single base seems to be falling out of favor...and coatings are getting better.

 

[Wyo7200]

Possibility of increased muzzle flash when you're using a slower powder in shorter barrel. Could be bothersome at night. Thought it, but thumbs didn't type it. Sorry. Not sure what his setup is, or if he really cares, just my thought.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

No argument there...

I quit reloading for my AR's..... Heck, I quit shooting them... I stocked up in M193 for range fodder and MK262 mod 1 for serious work.

The MK 262 mod 1 uses flash suppressed powder... Or so they say... It does flash a little, but not much.... Just a dull orange.