Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,496
- 4,684
Don's interesting thread about meat damage on deer got me to thinking about what deer I've shot that had the most, and the least, meat damage.
First off, none of the deer I've shot had what I'd consider "excessive" meat damage. My objective when shooting them, is to drop them as quickly as possible. I'm willing to accept some meat damage to that end. Two different factors seem to come into play in my experience. 1) Shot Placement. 2) Firearm & bullet used.
Shot placement? Yes, I've shot several deer in the brain, and believe me, there's no meat damage at all. Now, I do not encourage this shot, as it is difficult to make, and missing the brain can lead to a deer running away with a mangled face & jaw, so I've heard... But done well, the brain shot assures NO meat damage.
Shot placement. My standard shot on deer is either through the on-side shoulder blade, or through the rib cage, just behind the front leg. Into the lung & heart area. The "vitals" as they're sometimes called. When I make either of these shots, there tends to be very little meat ruined. Yes, I sacrifice a little meat with the on-side shoulder hit, but... It's actually surprised me how little meat is lost with that hit. The bullets (any bullet I've used) tend to just go through the shoulder blade and into the vitals, doing their damage.
Shot placement. The most good meat ruined ever for me was a big mule deer buck I hit from above at about 230 yards. Smacked his backbone, and sadly tore up some backstrap! Dang.
But he was a big deer, and had a LOT more backstrap that remained untouched!!! That hit did result in an instant drop, but required a finishing shot to the chest, up closer.
Firearm & bullet used. I've had excellent results from those low-velocity, heavy bullet combos like the .45/70 with a 405 gr bullet at 1650 fps, a .50 cal traditional muzzle loader with a 385 grain soft-lead hollow point, a .44 mag revolver with a 240 gr JHP Federal factory load at 1250 fps, and a .45 ACP with a 230 gr Federal Hydra-Shock hollow point at about 900 fps. As expected, all of those heavy-bullet, modest velocity combinations produced little meat damage.
Firearm & bullet used. This may fly in the face of conventional wisdom... But here goes... I've also noted minimal meat damage from some rifle/bullet combinations often thought of as producing heavy meat damage. Perhaps most surprising to some hunters is the first on this list:
1. 115 gr Berger VLD @ 3190 fps from my .25-06 Rem 700. Three mule deer. Only the shot that hit the backbone of the big mulie at 230 yards (shooting from well above him) showed meat damage. The buck I shot at 175 yards had almost no meat damage. That bullet went through the on-side shoulder blade, then expanded violently in the lungs, and I found the expanded bullet just under the off-side skin. The on-side shoulder blade had a tiny, 1/4" dia hole in it... The meat of the shoulder had almost no meat damage... Contrary to the expectations of many. In my experience, those VLD bullets penetrate into the vitals before opening up. They're actually slower to expand, initially, than most bullets. Then they're devastating!
2. 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3120 fps from my .25-06 Rem 700 AND the 95 grain Ballistic Tip from my son's 6mm Rem, at about 3,000 fps. First reaction from many folks about these two rifle/bullet combos might be to think that they would destroy a lot of meat. After all, the Ballistic Tip is a fast expanding bullet, and the velocity from either the .25-06 or the 6mm Rem is on the high side. Well... We've shot a number of mule deer with those rifles/bullets and... Typically we get complete penetration on a broadside hit, with a lot of damage to the vitals, and not much meat loss. On a shoulder hit, I do see more meat damage than with the Berger VLD, as the Ballistic Tip expands faster. That B-Tip though, after redesign, offers a sturdy jacket & base, and holds together rather well, punching right on through most of the time, for us. My personal favorite deer bullet, favored for excellent accuracy and terrific on-game performance from modest range out to 400 yards.
3. 100 gr Barnes TSX @ 3340 fps from the .25-06 - only two deer with this combo. One was a head shot at about 125 yards, the other a heart shot through the rib cage at about 25 yards. Neither deer had much of anything in the way of meat damage, despite the high velocity. I've not yet tried a Nosler E-Tip, but assume it would have similar performance, being a sturdy, mono-metal bullet.
So... There. I got a little wordy. My apologies. In summary - shot placement makes a difference, and some combinations considered likely to produce lots of meat damage, simply haven't. Not for me anyway. I do thoroughly enjoy cooking and serving venison steaks, so meat damage is important to me.
Your thoughts?
Thanks, Guy
First off, none of the deer I've shot had what I'd consider "excessive" meat damage. My objective when shooting them, is to drop them as quickly as possible. I'm willing to accept some meat damage to that end. Two different factors seem to come into play in my experience. 1) Shot Placement. 2) Firearm & bullet used.
Shot placement? Yes, I've shot several deer in the brain, and believe me, there's no meat damage at all. Now, I do not encourage this shot, as it is difficult to make, and missing the brain can lead to a deer running away with a mangled face & jaw, so I've heard... But done well, the brain shot assures NO meat damage.
Shot placement. My standard shot on deer is either through the on-side shoulder blade, or through the rib cage, just behind the front leg. Into the lung & heart area. The "vitals" as they're sometimes called. When I make either of these shots, there tends to be very little meat ruined. Yes, I sacrifice a little meat with the on-side shoulder hit, but... It's actually surprised me how little meat is lost with that hit. The bullets (any bullet I've used) tend to just go through the shoulder blade and into the vitals, doing their damage.
Shot placement. The most good meat ruined ever for me was a big mule deer buck I hit from above at about 230 yards. Smacked his backbone, and sadly tore up some backstrap! Dang.
But he was a big deer, and had a LOT more backstrap that remained untouched!!! That hit did result in an instant drop, but required a finishing shot to the chest, up closer. Firearm & bullet used. I've had excellent results from those low-velocity, heavy bullet combos like the .45/70 with a 405 gr bullet at 1650 fps, a .50 cal traditional muzzle loader with a 385 grain soft-lead hollow point, a .44 mag revolver with a 240 gr JHP Federal factory load at 1250 fps, and a .45 ACP with a 230 gr Federal Hydra-Shock hollow point at about 900 fps. As expected, all of those heavy-bullet, modest velocity combinations produced little meat damage.
Firearm & bullet used. This may fly in the face of conventional wisdom... But here goes... I've also noted minimal meat damage from some rifle/bullet combinations often thought of as producing heavy meat damage. Perhaps most surprising to some hunters is the first on this list:
1. 115 gr Berger VLD @ 3190 fps from my .25-06 Rem 700. Three mule deer. Only the shot that hit the backbone of the big mulie at 230 yards (shooting from well above him) showed meat damage. The buck I shot at 175 yards had almost no meat damage. That bullet went through the on-side shoulder blade, then expanded violently in the lungs, and I found the expanded bullet just under the off-side skin. The on-side shoulder blade had a tiny, 1/4" dia hole in it... The meat of the shoulder had almost no meat damage... Contrary to the expectations of many. In my experience, those VLD bullets penetrate into the vitals before opening up. They're actually slower to expand, initially, than most bullets. Then they're devastating!
2. 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3120 fps from my .25-06 Rem 700 AND the 95 grain Ballistic Tip from my son's 6mm Rem, at about 3,000 fps. First reaction from many folks about these two rifle/bullet combos might be to think that they would destroy a lot of meat. After all, the Ballistic Tip is a fast expanding bullet, and the velocity from either the .25-06 or the 6mm Rem is on the high side. Well... We've shot a number of mule deer with those rifles/bullets and... Typically we get complete penetration on a broadside hit, with a lot of damage to the vitals, and not much meat loss. On a shoulder hit, I do see more meat damage than with the Berger VLD, as the Ballistic Tip expands faster. That B-Tip though, after redesign, offers a sturdy jacket & base, and holds together rather well, punching right on through most of the time, for us. My personal favorite deer bullet, favored for excellent accuracy and terrific on-game performance from modest range out to 400 yards.
3. 100 gr Barnes TSX @ 3340 fps from the .25-06 - only two deer with this combo. One was a head shot at about 125 yards, the other a heart shot through the rib cage at about 25 yards. Neither deer had much of anything in the way of meat damage, despite the high velocity. I've not yet tried a Nosler E-Tip, but assume it would have similar performance, being a sturdy, mono-metal bullet.
So... There. I got a little wordy. My apologies. In summary - shot placement makes a difference, and some combinations considered likely to produce lots of meat damage, simply haven't. Not for me anyway. I do thoroughly enjoy cooking and serving venison steaks, so meat damage is important to me.
Your thoughts?
Thanks, Guy
