Meat Damage on Deer

[Guy Miner]

Don's interesting thread about meat damage on deer got me to thinking about what deer I've shot that had the most, and the least, meat damage.

First off, none of the deer I've shot had what I'd consider "excessive" meat damage. My objective when shooting them, is to drop them as quickly as possible. I'm willing to accept some meat damage to that end. Two different factors seem to come into play in my experience. 1) Shot Placement. 2) Firearm & bullet used.

Shot placement? Yes, I've shot several deer in the brain, and believe me, there's no meat damage at all. Now, I do not encourage this shot, as it is difficult to make, and missing the brain can lead to a deer running away with a mangled face & jaw, so I've heard... But done well, the brain shot assures NO meat damage.

Shot placement. My standard shot on deer is either through the on-side shoulder blade, or through the rib cage, just behind the front leg. Into the lung & heart area. The "vitals" as they're sometimes called. When I make either of these shots, there tends to be very little meat ruined. Yes, I sacrifice a little meat with the on-side shoulder hit, but... It's actually surprised me how little meat is lost with that hit. The bullets (any bullet I've used) tend to just go through the shoulder blade and into the vitals, doing their damage.

Shot placement. The most good meat ruined ever for me was a big mule deer buck I hit from above at about 230 yards. Smacked his backbone, and sadly tore up some backstrap! Dang. But he was a big deer, and had a LOT more backstrap that remained untouched!!! That hit did result in an instant drop, but required a finishing shot to the chest, up closer.

Firearm & bullet used. I've had excellent results from those low-velocity, heavy bullet combos like the .45/70 with a 405 gr bullet at 1650 fps, a .50 cal traditional muzzle loader with a 385 grain soft-lead hollow point, a .44 mag revolver with a 240 gr JHP Federal factory load at 1250 fps, and a .45 ACP with a 230 gr Federal Hydra-Shock hollow point at about 900 fps. As expected, all of those heavy-bullet, modest velocity combinations produced little meat damage.

Firearm & bullet used. This may fly in the face of conventional wisdom... But here goes... I've also noted minimal meat damage from some rifle/bullet combinations often thought of as producing heavy meat damage. Perhaps most surprising to some hunters is the first on this list:

1. 115 gr Berger VLD @ 3190 fps from my .25-06 Rem 700. Three mule deer. Only the shot that hit the backbone of the big mulie at 230 yards (shooting from well above him) showed meat damage. The buck I shot at 175 yards had almost no meat damage. That bullet went through the on-side shoulder blade, then expanded violently in the lungs, and I found the expanded bullet just under the off-side skin. The on-side shoulder blade had a tiny, 1/4" dia hole in it... The meat of the shoulder had almost no meat damage... Contrary to the expectations of many. In my experience, those VLD bullets penetrate into the vitals before opening up. They're actually slower to expand, initially, than most bullets. Then they're devastating!

2. 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3120 fps from my .25-06 Rem 700 AND the 95 grain Ballistic Tip from my son's 6mm Rem, at about 3,000 fps. First reaction from many folks about these two rifle/bullet combos might be to think that they would destroy a lot of meat. After all, the Ballistic Tip is a fast expanding bullet, and the velocity from either the .25-06 or the 6mm Rem is on the high side. Well... We've shot a number of mule deer with those rifles/bullets and... Typically we get complete penetration on a broadside hit, with a lot of damage to the vitals, and not much meat loss. On a shoulder hit, I do see more meat damage than with the Berger VLD, as the Ballistic Tip expands faster. That B-Tip though, after redesign, offers a sturdy jacket & base, and holds together rather well, punching right on through most of the time, for us. My personal favorite deer bullet, favored for excellent accuracy and terrific on-game performance from modest range out to 400 yards.

3. 100 gr Barnes TSX @ 3340 fps from the .25-06 - only two deer with this combo. One was a head shot at about 125 yards, the other a heart shot through the rib cage at about 25 yards. Neither deer had much of anything in the way of meat damage, despite the high velocity. I've not yet tried a Nosler E-Tip, but assume it would have similar performance, being a sturdy, mono-metal bullet.

So... There. I got a little wordy. My apologies. In summary - shot placement makes a difference, and some combinations considered likely to produce lots of meat damage, simply haven't. Not for me anyway. I do thoroughly enjoy cooking and serving venison steaks, so meat damage is important to me.

Your thoughts?

Thanks, Guy

 

[Thankful Otter]

Guy, we hunt a LOT more caribou than deer and they are a little larger. I also do not change bullets when hunting different species of animals--with the exception of goat and sheep. I also never know what will make itself available or what we might encounter----having said all that I use the 180 A Frame in the 30-06 and the 250 woodleigh in the 348. I can not complain about excess meat loss with either combination.

I didn't even know they made bullets as small as 100 (-;

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool "behind the shoulder lung shot" guy and get relatively little meat damage- even when using high velocity cartridges. A straight in and out through the ribs and you lose a palm full of burger...no big deal there.

With my 300, I have slipped one into a shoulder and it pretty much jellified most of it. I was close and it was pretty bad. The bullet exited but the bone fragments just destroyed a lot of tissue.

My worst experience was with an '06 shooting 125 Silvertips (the old ones, not the 'Ballistic Silvertip' made today). They dropped deer like the Hammer of God, but if you hit the shoulder- it was a total wreck. Those were really soft and were likely over 3300fps at the muzzle.

A friend's .270 with 130 gr Speers was a pretty good meat waster- of course he was shooting E. TN. deer out of a stand at 50-75 yards. It was just the wrong hammer for that particular nail.

In more modern times, I've had a lot better luck. My rifle is better, the bullets are better and I'm just a lot more patient for them to turn broadside before flipping the switch.

 

[Guy Miner]

Guy, we hunt a LOT more caribou than deer and they are a little larger. I also do not change bullets when hunting different species of animals--with the exception of goat and sheep. I also never know what will make itself available or what we might encounter----having said all that I use the 180 A Frame in the 30-06 and the 250 woodleigh in the 348. I can not complain about excess meat loss with either combination.

I didn't even know they made bullets as small as 100 (-;

YH - did anyone ever tell you that you're a brat?

By the way "brat" is an affectionate nickname I use for some of my very best strong-willed women friends.

If I lived and hunted up in your country, the smallest rifle I'd carry would be a .30-06, and I'd load it with 180 grain Nosler Partitions. You've got lots of critters up there that can eat people, and other critters that can trample people!

Guy

 

[Polaris]

I have a lot of experience with large whitetails and both the .280 Rem and .308 win class cartridges (.308, .300 Sav, and 7.62x54r). I will only include shots in the body area, not the cerebellum/high neck shot I prefer under ideal circumstances (stable position, stable deer relatively close). For clarity sake, I butcher my own deer right down to sausage so I have a really good handle on actual meat loss vs apparent (we tend to see the siver lining of our favorite rifle load).

Lets start with .308 class. I favor 150 grain bullets and have made or reloaded the ammo for many of these kills. Various soft points including Speer, Hornady, Winchester Power point and the old Nosler solid base. All performed well, some meat loss when heavy bone and muscle was hit, but nothing I'd consider severe. The one exception was the 150 gr Hornady SST. On 2 different hits, neither contacting a shoulder, fragments were blown into meat and a portion of the backstrap was bloodshot to the point of waste... with clean cavity hits.

Low and slow: 2 deer killed with 174 gr Hornady RN from my 7.62x54r. One really tough angle on a wounded running deer. Bullet hit forward edge of hind quarter, passed through to front shoulder, lodging in heavy bone. Anchored the deer on the spot, surprisingly minimal meat loss. 2nd shot was on a small doe at close range. Pass through double lung hit. Classic plowed wound channel with heavy but long blood trail.

.280 Rem: 154 SST. I don't use these any more. Would probably waste less meat with #2 lead from my shotgun. Heavy hydrostatic shock damage also. Killed the hell out of deer but meat loss to fragments and blood loss was absolutely unacceptable.

150 Partition and 145 Speer Grand Slam: Similar results to .308 150 grain soft points.

Our deer run large with heavy hair and fat in Northern MN where I hunt. I tend to favor a 'soft elk' bullet and load vs. a typical "deer load", at least at higher velocities like the .280.

 

[baltz526]

I use bullets that put fist sized holes through deer. If that hole has a major bone in it, I get a bit more blood shot meat and bone fragments to clean up. The deer still gets brought home and I get to eat it. A few pounds of meat one way or the other has no real effect on how fast the deer died. My goal is to kill the deer, fast. Fist sized holes completely through the animal do just that.

 

[Blkram]

Having harvested game from antelope to bison with cartridges from 6.5 x 55 to 376 Steyr, most of the worst bloodshot and damaged meat have been on smaller big game animals at closer ranges with fast bullets (3000 fps me or higher), and typically more so when high shoulder shots or shots that angled through the vitals to break the off-side shoulder bone (typically used when wanting to anchor the animal where it was).

The majority of shots are for double lung hits (where many bullets pass through or are found under the hide on the off-side), at sensible ranges (100-300 yards, with most taken between 100-180 yards) that result in quick, clean harvests, with short blood trails and minimal meat damage, regardless of rifle/cartridge combination. These have included:
6.5 x 55 and 140 gr bullets
270 Win and 130 and 140 gr bullets
270 WSM and 140 gr bullets
270 Wby and 100, 130 and 140 gr bullets
280 Rem and 140 and 160 gr bullets
7 mm Rem Mag and 160 and 165 gr bullets
7mm STW and 160 gr bullets
30-30 and 130 and 150 gr bullets
308 Win and 180 gr bullets
30-06 and 180 gr bullets
300 Win Mag and WSM and 180 gr bullets
338-06 and 210 and 215 gr bullets
338 Win Mag and 210 and 225 gr bullets
358 Win and 220 and 225 gr bullets
375 Win and 200 and 220 gr bullets
376 Steyr and 260 gr bullets

 

[big rifle man]

I've taken a lot of deer over the years with three calibers: .35 Rem (200 gr. corelokt) , 30.06 (165 grain either Sierra Gameking or Partition) and 7MM-08 (140 grain gameking or Partition.) By far, the .35 has less meat damage. The old adage about eating up to the hole is pretty accurate and that particular bullet drops deer fast. With the 7MM-08 and the 06 meat damage is about the same, Less with the Partition as opposed to the gameking although both are not excessive. I do not shoot for the shoulder as I have seen deer hit in the shoulder and the meat is destroyed. You do not have to break a deer down as you would a bear or some other animal that might bite back. If it takes 75 yards for the deer to go down after the shot, "so what".

 

[Europe]

Guy, we hunt a LOT more caribou than deer and they are a little larger. I also do not change bullets when hunting different species of animals--with the exception of goat and sheep. I also never know what will make itself available or what we might encounter----having said all that I use the 180 A Frame in the 30-06 and the 250 woodleigh in the 348. I can not complain about excess meat loss with either combination.

I didn't even know they made bullets as small as 100 (-;

YH - did anyone ever tell you that you're a brat?
Guy

Amen Guy--Amen!

Speaking of Cheyenne, she may be the only one here who uses game as her grocery store.
We all enjoy eating what we kill and I am sure some more than others do in fact depend on what they hunt each year for their food supply. But for the most part, must of us probably do not. I personally am more concerned with an immediate kill, than meat loss. Shot placement, enough gun, and the best bullet I can buy for the gun and game in question helps to accomplish this. Nosler, Norma, Swift, Woodleigh, and Northfork are usually my first choice. Compared to when I fist started hunting, we now have so many very good bullet's and bullet choices available to us.

 

[sask boy]

In all my years of hunting I have been very lucky with meat loss :wink:. Once many years ago I was Mule deer hunting and had a decent buck standing broadside at about 250 yards when I pulled the trigger he was DRT, I hit him high on the left front shoulder and took the spine as well. When we skinned him out the bullet had fragmented and I found shrapnel from the front all the way back to the hip. It looked like a bomb went off :evil:.
I was shooting my 270win and had loaded 130gr. silvertips never used them again.
That is when I started to use 130gr. Partitions :mrgreen: and have basically stuck with Nosler since.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[preacher]

I've had some bad meat loss on the little East Texas deer. A few with the 150 corlokt/30-30, which surprised me. A couple with the 30-06/150CL, but I was about 15yds away from both! On antelope out here I had one doe I shot with the 90BT from a 6mm/284 at 150yds that was a behind the shoulder shot. Lots of meat was ruined, big two fisted hole exit. On a cow elk I had the worst meat loss from a 375 H&H/300SBT at 200yds. Same big two fisted exit, but the second shot was anchoring/top of shoulder shot, On mule deer the worst was a medium sized buck in West Texas I "almost cut in half" with a custom 150gr BT type bullet from a 300 RUM around 50yds. Wow! Other than that, I've always had good results. I owe that mentality to my Depression surviving Dad who didn't waste "anything"...from small game, deer, hogs, to bread wrappers, ha. I got royally reamed on the few deer I did hit wrong ( shot placement) ha. Even though I like to try different loads, when it comes to game animals I have shot more with (a) Barnes monos (b) Partitions or tougher BT and AccuBond (c) old school heavy & slow. I have also evolved over the years into a "break them down" hunter. Expensive exotics and African game had to anchored as well as game out here to keep them out of those god awful ravines! This is a good thread Uncle Guy!

 

[Fourtyonesix]

375 HH and 416 rem are fantastic deer caliber! Any bullet constructed for thick skinned game is usually great for broadside shots on deer. More like shooting solids. I've shot numerous deer on kodiak island with big bore and have always had less meat damage than conventional "deer" rifles. Faster smaller bullet rifles.
Unless...you shoot that deer lengthwise...ugh then it's a mess.

 

[preacher]

Well forty6..on Kodiak, I would be "perplexed" at the thought of a Brownie coming to the "dinner bell" of a shot BlackTail, ha. I don't know how you slept at night...tho se big humped backed bears give me the 'willies"! ha

 

[Fourtyonesix]

Dinner bell bears is a ledgend based off a old outdoor life article. Never seen it remotely happen. I sleep with all my deer meat right out the door of the tent, my food, capes, heads in the tent. Been doing that for 18 years on kodiak.
If dinner bell bears was true, be a lot of people mauled at the shooting range....

 

[salmonchaser]

Outstanding observation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thankful Otter]

I have never hunted on Kodiak Island, so I have no knowledge of the bears and their mannerisms there. We have found bears in the far north upon occasion to challenge us on a downed animal and when we are fishing. However we have gone a bit off subject here, sorry guy

 

[Guy Miner]

Oh, I'm just enjoying the heck out of the discussion. I like this place. The topics wander, but the friends remain around the campfire. It's nice.

Guy

 

[Europe]

Guy, I responded to the original subject earlier in this thread and now I will respond to the current topic.

Having hunted grizzly in Alaska, I can only say that fourtyonesix has bigger "-----" than I do. Of course, being female, all you guys do---but it doesn't diminish my point.

I have also been told and from some experience believe the so called dinner bell theory might be overblown. However I have heard from some whom I trust that they can and will challenge a hunter for his kill and I know from experience they can be a pain in the butt when fishing the waterways

I remember the first time my husband and I hunted Africa and I heard lions and other animal at night. The PH said just stay in camp at night and he did not have to repeat himself to me

 

[HTDUCK]

The only serious meat loss I've encounter was with a 280 Rem and the old school 140BT.
Heart shot a buck broadside at around 120 yards and the core and jacket separated.
The core ended up going out through the top of the body between the shoulder blades taking a fist sized chunk of spine and backstrap with it.

I typically am a lung shooter, just behind the shoulder.
If a deer goes 75 to 100 yards after being hit there, so what ?
I have never lost a deer shot through the lungs.

I've shot alot of deer in the neck and head as well.
Ain't a whole lot of meat on a Tx deer's neck so I've never worried about it.

 

[Fourtyonesix]

I have had lung shot deer run and be found by bigger animals before I've gotten there. So lung shooting is a no no in my book. I'd rather loose a front shoulder than all four shoulders. Perhaps each environment has a say in where shot placement should be based on specific challenges of the area?