My bittersweet Elk.

[Stillhunter]

I was hunting in the thick, steep, dark and wet timber. Typical of Western Washington Roosevelt Elk. Late in the afternoon, the light, what there is of it was waning even though it was an hour before sundown. The canopy does the here.
I scanned up the side of the ridge to my left, then down into the draw on my right. Then glanced by up. A herd of a dozen materialized, just were suddenly there. hats typical too, as thick as it is. They were spread out feeding toward my left. The closest about 20 yards, some 60 or more. I searched for a bull. Raghorns often are hanging with the cows. We have a 3 pt minimum here.
The first two cows were about to step into my wind so time was up. I had a cow tag to fill and a broadside cow at 40ish yards. I brought the crosshairs to her heart as she stepped forward. At the shot it was pandemonium as elk were every which way. I lost sight of my cow and assumed she was down where I shot her. The herd gathered and left at a run the way they had come, down the draw.
I moved to the stop and to my surprise, no elk, no blood. I never saw one showing signs of a hit as they left. I was perplexed. She was close and broadside. I was sure of my aim. I had what research had said to be a good load. Federal factory 300 Grain Speer. Not a hollow point, the HotCor with the dimple. Many on forums said it to be tough and a good replacement to the 300 grain Partitions now long gone.
I got on the radio to my buddy to let him know I was searching. I spent 15 minutes looking for blood ar any tell tail signs in the many tracks. Then, I saw a cow standing, facing away, 50 yards off. It was odd. I had not been quiet. Why was she there? Was this my cow. I moved closer. At 25 yards I decided it must be her. She still hadn't moved. As she turned her head to look back at me, I could just tell it was her. It all wasn't right and she was in pain. I still did not have a good angle to shoot again and as she looked back again, I dropped her with a shot to the neck.
I gutted her and found no sign of the first hit, but the entry would have been on the side she was laying. When help arrived it was dark. We skinned and quartered one side by lamp light. When we could flip her over, I found the entry hole. It had taken out the leg bone in front of the heart. There was a 2 inch hole in her ribs. Directly behind her still pristine heart. Not a sign of damage to the heart or lungs. Not a sign of the bullet or a single fragment. I will never know what happened at the hit. Was glad I finally got to put her down. An animal should never suffer like that.
We hung the quarters there over night. In the morning, packed her out. That bullet went no where in her I could find. I need a better load for the future. The search is on.

 

[salmonchaser]

Perplexing, good job following up.

 

[Elkman]

Nice job great recovery, especially in the deep dark. She is a beautiful looking cow. !!!!!
Is that a 45/70? Have you tried a 405gr. Remington? I primarily shoot a 350 Hard Cast in mine, however I have never killed an elk with it.

 

[JD338]

Congratulations on the big cow elk.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

Good that you stayed on her and tracked her down. The 300 grain Hot-Cor should have done a better job. I suspect it was just one of those things. Still, you persevered and now have a fine cow elk for the freezer. Congratulations.

 

[SJB358]

I'm blown away, there aren't many 300's out there that I would use that I truly believe would do better on elk sized game. That bullet should have left fragments or something. The factory loads don't move fast enough to explode a jacket. It is truly odd and I'm sorry to hear that. I've pulled a bunch of them of those bullets that I've got from dirt banks, water jugs and other hard stuff.

Great job on recovering that beautiful cow. Truly an awesome animal.

 

[Guy Miner]

Congrats on the elk! Much good meat for the freezer. Also, thank you for being a good hunter and following up on that first shot. You did well.

Re the bullet... Wow, from what I've heard, that is supposed to be one heck of a bullet. Maybe the leg bone was just too much for it?

I ended up hunting with the 405 gr Remington bullet, then switched to a 425 gr hard cast bullet towards the end of my nine year fling with the .45/70 Marlin. Sadly I never got to use the cast bullets on game. They did perform with incredible penetration when tested.

Guy

 

[sask boy]

Sure glad you were able to recover the cow. The freezer is now full!!
Thank you for the post & photos.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Stillhunter]

I chose that bullet because of many good review as to it's toughness. I have lost confidence in it. Maybe, that is undeserved, as it could have been an aberration. I will never know. The terrain in part dictates a bullet that can handle hard angles. Quartering to, and away as well as down from above and visa versa. It can be real steep. Shots are often quick, a glimpse is all you may get.
I have reloaded for the 45-70 in the past, but ran out of components. Now that has changed, I will either go with the Hornady 350, or the Remmy 405. Perhaps Northfork or similar. Hardcast would be the one for penetration, but seems a lot to do to get a reliable accurate cast load.
I of course want the best of both worlds, nice expansion on a heart and lung but 4 feet of penetration for a follow up shot on a still moving bull.
I was happy I found her, to put her down. Even with a great exit hole, blood trails wash away in the hard rain typical of November in the coastal rain forest.
I think next year, the scope will come off the Marlin, replaced by a ghost ring. It will be my storm gun. A BLR .358 loaded with Partitions will be getting a workout.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Beartooth bullets...405-425 grain hard cast lead with a gas check, don't push them overly hard (1,600-1,800 fps)....they'll be accurate, easy, and dependable.

 

[SJB358]

Beartooth bullets...405-425 grain hard cast lead with a gas check, don't push them overly hard (1,600-1,800 fps)....they'll be accurate, easy, and dependable.

Bingo. I've had excellent results with cast lead on accuracy. If you want the best of both worlds a 350 Swift or Northfork would do alot of work.

 

[Thebear_78]

The kodiak bonded bullets are excellent in the 45/70, I have heard good things about the swift and woodliegh bullets also.

The rem 405 are good bullets for deer/ blackbear if you keep the speed down below 1600fps. They will flatten out like a pancake if run hard. My buddy and his friend took a decent brown bear with a pair of marlin guide guns. One shooting barnrs busters and the other shooting rem 405s. All three of the rem factory loads he put in that bear had very poor penetration, shed their core, and opened up like a Pancake.

Are you planning to reload or shoot factory ammo?

 

[Guy Miner]

Years ago I tested several bullets for the .45/70, slamming them into one-gallon plastic, water-filled jugs from about 20 yards. The very expensive 350 grain Swift A-Frame is on the left, the much less expensive 350 grain Hornady flat nose is on the right. Both penetrated well and expanded well. The Swift, predictably, penetrated deeper. The Hornady shed a little more weight and expanded a little better but still offered a LOT of penetration. Here's the photos. I think either one would be a very good hunting bullet. BTW, velocity on the Swift was 2040 fps and the Hornady was 2080 fps.





Isn't that Swift about the prettiest mushroom you've ever seen? Love that bullet!

Guy

 

[Dr. Vette]

Barnes also makes a 45-70 specific 300gr TSX bullet that would likely work very well.

Having said that, I'm surprised that the Speer didn't work as well as you expected. You are correct that all of the reviews of the Hot-Cor line are excellent

 

[Thebear_78]

If your planning to reload. These bullets I have either eperienced with or several of my friends who’s opinion I trust.

350, 405 Kodiak bonded- Easily the best bullets I have every experienced with. I ran the 405gr JSP @ 1925fps out of my guide gun, same load with 405 remington hits in exact same POI so easy to practice with cheap bulllets

Speer 400gr Its a touch tougher than the remington but will still shed its core if it hits anything really big

Swift 350gr a buddy of mine has killed a boat load of game including several brown bears with this bullet ran @ 2000fps in a 457 WWG. Peformance has been nothing short of stellar. He only recovered one, he was backing up a client and shot a bear in the rear as it was running away. The bullet ran along the spine, broke a couple ribs, took out one lung, and turned in the armpit traced down the front leg and came to rest under the pad of the front paw. he found it while skinning the bear out. It looked remarkably similar to the picture posted by Guy of his bullet.

Woodliegh 405gr when kodiak bullets are hard to find this bullet make a decent replacement. A buddy of mine had taken several moose with this bullet always with good expansion and penetration.

Speer 350gr JSP. There is a buffalo bore load using this bullet that another buddy has used on several big game aninals and I have tested this bullet for my 458 Lott and it held together at speeds MUCH higher than you could expect with a 45/70. I used to run these at up to 2800fps in the Lott and would use them on even the biggest game if speeds where kept below 2500fps.

Barnes 400gr buster, and 300gr TSX. My friend Allan took a nice brown bear this spring with these bullet. Not expansion but complete penetration on several angles. I have never ran the 300gr TSX out of a 45/70 bt I do use this same bullet in my muzzle loader. its performance at 1800fps out of the muzzle loader on moose leads me to believe it will work fine out of the 45/70 also.

350 hornady interlok. I know several guys who use this bullet every year and have had an impressive track record on game. Its not as tough as some of the other 350gr bullets but it gets the job done.

Hardcast loads from 420-550gr usually garrets or Jae Bok young’s crater and crater lights. They have proven evective in penetrating at odd angles and are used by a lot of guides who want to break bone on wounded bears as they run away. I don’t think the cast bullets kill quite as quickly as expanding jacketed bullets but there is no denying they work. I know a state trooper who was stationed on kodaik for several years who used garret hammerheads to kill several nuisence and wounded brown bears. He used a copilot in 45/70 with a 16” barrel and ghost ring sights. He is the guy who recomended I put a light mount on my first guide gun because he had used his so much he considered it mandatory.

Several of these bullets are also available in factory ammo. Any of these bullets should work well.

 

[6mm Remington]

Good for you on sticking with her as you just knew your shot was good. It's truly amazing what elk can take and still keep on their feet. She will be some fine eating.

 

[Stillhunter]

Good info here on bullets. Thanks. I will reload for this gun from now on. Components I ran out of are around again. I used to load the 350 Hornady to about 1700. I like the idea of a premium 350 or 405 or the Barnes 300 for hunting with a practice and deer load with a cheaper same weight bullet. No doubt a hard cast lead will penetrate, but I have also read Elk can tend to go a bit after the shot, if big bone or CNS is not hit. That is the potential problem where I hunt. 30 seconds can mean another half days hard work packing them out. Also, as all of Western Washington is near cities, that Elk could end up in someone else's sites and wearing their tag.
Again, great info and a fantastic bunch of people here.

 

[jimbires]

when my son started hunting I tried a hot core 105 grain bullet in his 243 . after one deer I switched .he hit it on the front shoulder / leg area , it looked like it was shot with bird shot . i got the deer after a long tracking job .

 

[Thebear_78]

The trick with reloading the 45/70 is Starline brass. It is all I will use. I have found the magic load is Starline brass with 52.0gr of H322, WLR primers with 405gr Kodiak or Rem JSP with a moderate crimp from a lee factory crimp die, 2.55 COL. The load printed to the same POI with either bullet at 100 yards. The bulk 405gr Rem JSP ran right at 1900fps and the kodiak ran 1925fps. I would be willng to bet that the woodliegh would probably print similarly also.

This load has shot very well out of every guide gun I have tried it in. 8 different marlins and counting. It will print around an inch out of my customized 1895 marlin if I play my cards right, it did almost as well in my old guide gun with scout scope.

 

[Stillhunter]

Thank you Thebear_78. That is a great looking rig. I like the cheek piece to use the tall rings to get over the peep sight. Has me thinking. I will say that load sounds "brisk" on both ends.