Neck sized vs. full length size brass accuracy decrease??

[ReloadKy]

I have a Remington 30-06 that has always shot pretty well. a lot of sub moa groups and a lot of low ES. Most of my past and best experience has been with Hornady brass that has been fire formed and neck sized. I have started to use some virgin Nosler brass that I did run through a full length sizing die before I loaded. I am seeing my groups grow and my ES grow as well. Has anyone experienced these type of results when starting with virgin brass? I would assume that the Nosler brass would be of higher quality than the Hornady but have not seen the positive results that I was hopeful for. Any thoughts?

 

[Horsethief]

I have necked sized a variety of cartridges and noticed no difference in accuracy vs identical loads from full length resized cases.
As for Nosler v Hornady cases giving differences with accuracy, it seems like a neck tension issue or internal capacity creating different pressure. Either way, I certainly believe it can happen with two different manufacturers.

 

[Elkman]

I doubt it's an issue with being new. It's most likely case volume, or as mentioned below neck tension. All brass is not the same some is thicker than others.

 

[SJB358]

Till brass is fire formed for my gun I won’t put a ton of faith in groups.

Any difference in speed from the Nosler vs Hornady?

 

[NYDAN]

Till brass is fire formed for my gun I won’t put a ton of faith in groups.

Any difference in speed from the Nosler vs Hornady?

I agree with Scotty on this. In my experience, new brass is significantly smaller than even full length resized brass and probably not exactly uniform. When fired for the first time, the brass expands and absorbs energy. I usually see in the neighborhood of 30 fps difference between new and once fired brass.

To illustrate the difference between new, fired, and full length resized brass, measure the diameter of the brass at a couple of points such as just in front of the web, and just below the shoulder. I think you will see that the new brass will measure less. Also you will probably see more of a radius at the shoulder/neck intersection with the new brass.

I don't weight sort my brass until after they have been fired, resized, and trimmed.

Dan

 

[ShadeTree]

Have seen it not make much difference, and seen it be fairly substantial. Depends on a lot of things....brass, difference between your chamber and virgin brass, etc. Agree with Scotty, I wouldn't sweat it until you neck size or shoulder bump that fireformed brass and see what you got. If the only thing that's changed is new brass I'd say you will be back on track shortly.

 

[ElmerThud]

Till brass is fire formed for my gun I won’t put a ton of faith in groups.

Any difference in speed from the Nosler vs Hornady?

I concur with Scotty & find the same, though I gave up neck sizing a long time ago & now only F/L resize to 'Fired case headspace' dimensions. Doing this certainly maintains consistent accuracy & brass life.

 

[SJB358]

Till brass is fire formed for my gun I won’t put a ton of faith in groups.

Any difference in speed from the Nosler vs Hornady?

I concur with Scotty & find the same, though I gave up neck sizing a long time ago & now only F/L resize to 'Fired case headspace' dimensions. Doing this certainly maintains consistent accuracy & brass life.

Same here ET, I tried neck sizing a few times and had worse runout issues than just using plain old RCBS FL dies.

 

[diverdown]

I also found that Neck sizing wasn't an improvement for accuracy. I subsequently purchased a set of Redding competition shell holders and found that accuracy did take a step forward. They do work!!

 

[jimbires]

I can't say much the other guys haven't . my one 7mm-08 virgin Norma brass to fired and properly sized Norma brass is 50 FPS different , virgin brass is slower . I full length size with my die allowing the shoulder to be bumped about .002 - .003 . I usually find my best accuracy at , or near , max loads . with cases being loaded like this I'll bet I could only get a cycle or two until my brass is so tight it would not want to easily chamber . I'm fairly sure the BR guys have stopped neck sizing only . to you switching brands of brass ; I'd get a couple of cycles on the new nosler brass and see if the velocity matches the fire formed Hornady brass . try adjusting your powder charge to get it to match , then see how it groups . matching velocities works for different lots of powder . I'll say it's a long shot on brass , there's more to it than just matching velocities . you'll probably need to work up a load again with the nosler brass .

 

[ElmerThud]

Till brass is fire formed for my gun I won’t put a ton of faith in groups.

Any difference in speed from the Nosler vs Hornady?

I concur with Scotty & find the same, though I gave up neck sizing a long time ago & now only F/L resize to 'Fired case headspace' dimensions. Doing this certainly maintains consistent accuracy & brass life.

Same here ET, I tried neck sizing a few times and had worse runout issues than just using plain old RCBS FL dies.

Way to go Scotty.
I only use RCBS dies except for the old MSch rifles... Redding for those & run out on all loads doesn't exceed .003" EVER! Though I do use an arbour press & Wilson seating dies for the .25-06 & Steyr 6.5x55
Man, it's a cool seating system. Love it! Rarely above .002" run out for these two rifles.
If ever the run out is greater, I made a mistake somewhere, but it doesn't affect accuracy for hunting.
Not that there has been any hunting here last season... it's all been closed down due to COVID19, so plenty of deer to shoot next season!

 

[TXbaldhunter]

I tried neck sizing before.It's nice having a loading short cut,but I also ran into problems with some rounds that were very hard to chamber.I quickly gave up on it because I didn't see any benefit in accuracy,but I did see it to be more of an issue with how inconsistent my rounds chambered.Now the way I prep my brass is:
Full length resize
Trim,chamfer,deburr and clean primer pockets with my Frankford Arsenal Trim and Prep Center
Tumble brass in ground walnut media
Remove and store in ziplock bags by,caliber,brand and number of times fired
I believe consistency is the key to better accuracy with your ammo.

 

[George Foster]

TXbaldhunter, You are correct! Consistently in your brass prepping to better accuracy along with finding the right load for your rifle and COL.

 

[NYDAN]

I have a Remington 30-06 that has always shot pretty well. a lot of sub moa groups and a lot of low ES. Most of my past and best experience has been with Hornady brass that has been fire formed and neck sized. I have started to use some virgin Nosler brass that I did run through a full length sizing die before I loaded. I am seeing my groups grow and my ES grow as well. Has anyone experienced these type of results when starting with virgin brass? I would assume that the Nosler brass would be of higher quality than the Hornady but have not seen the positive results that I was hopeful for. Any thoughts?

ReloadKY, below are two targets I shot. The loads were identical except that one load used twice fired Norma brass that had been full length resized and the other load used new Norma brass. A very minor difference that I don't believe significantly affected the results is a new lot of bullets. However, I used identical bullet jumps for each load which should have mitigated any differences between the bullet lots.

Here is the target with twice fired and full length resized brass.



Here is the target with new brass.



You see there is a big difference in velocity (about 70 fps) and a big difference in accuracy.

In general I think you will see more consistency with fired brass.

Dan

 

[ReloadKy]

Thank you Dan that is pretty dang good analysis. I will continue to practice with the new brass and keep an eye on my results.