Needing more understanding!
- Thread starter RAY
- Start date
Hi Ray: I always use Imperial Dry Neck lube and never worry about the residue. Also regarding your earlier post, I tumble my brass before de-capping and simply brush out the primer pocket after resizing and de-capping. I also use the flash hole deburring tool as well as the primer pocket uniforming tool on all of my brass before the first reloading.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
The key word to your question is "necessary." It is not necessary to clean out carbon; it is, however, a good practise. My practise for years was to tumble with with corncob media or with walnut media and then resize. Now, I more frequently use a Thumler's Tumbler and dry the cases with a dehydrator. I use Imperial dry lube (motor mica works almost as well) to avoid concerns about contamination. I have used wet lubes of various types throughout the years, but I was always careful to clean the inside of the case mouth before charging. It is a good practise not to allow contact between oils or oil-based lubricants and powder when loading.
Keep asking questions. I had to learn all the wrong things to do through trial and error. This forum and the good people who post here would have been a God send when I was learning to hand load. As it is, I probably made every mistake possible trying to learn. I avoided many grievous mistakes through reading every hand loading manual I could find. There is a wealth of knowledge, and it is even better in current offerings, from the loading manuals provided by powder and bullet manufacturers. There is a load of garbage available from Internet ninjas who delight in tickling the dragon's tail through anonymity.
Keep asking questions. I had to learn all the wrong things to do through trial and error. This forum and the good people who post here would have been a God send when I was learning to hand load. As it is, I probably made every mistake possible trying to learn. I avoided many grievous mistakes through reading every hand loading manual I could find. There is a wealth of knowledge, and it is even better in current offerings, from the loading manuals provided by powder and bullet manufacturers. There is a load of garbage available from Internet ninjas who delight in tickling the dragon's tail through anonymity.
- Thread starter
- #4
Thanks Mr . Minks2 and Dr. Mike !
I do read the manuals that I have.
EE2 said I would have to read in between the lines on some of the info , but I would rather not assume anything.
So is this dry lube used on the inside of the case mouth and outside of the case body for FL sizing ?
Does this need to be removed before charging and seating ?
Thanks ?
I do read the manuals that I have.
EE2 said I would have to read in between the lines on some of the info , but I would rather not assume anything.
So is this dry lube used on the inside of the case mouth and outside of the case body for FL sizing ?
Does this need to be removed before charging and seating ?
Thanks ?
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
The case neck is dipped into the dry lube. It is a good idea to remove it (it is graphite) because it will blacken your fingers when handled. A quick wipe with a blue towel is sufficient to remove it. Inside the case is not a problem.
- Thread starter
- #7
Cleaning out carbon from inside fired cases is not necessary in the least. Unless running a tumbler I wouldn't pay it the slightest mind.
I don't bother cleaning out primer pockets either; there have been tests that show it's a waste of time.
I don't need to lube the inside of the case necks of my bolt gun cases; using a Lee Collet Neck Sizer it's unnecessay. It is also easier on necks allowing less trimming and longer life, avoiding work hardening. It's a great option for bolt action rifles; autos need full length sizing everytime. When I do I use Imperial sizing wax inside necks and I don't clean em; burning powder does that.
It's all a matter of what YA like appearance-wise. These aren't necessary steps but if you like to putter over the bench there is nothing wrong at all with doin them.
I love to shoot a lot so there are rifles I load fast for; others that are precision longer range hunting tools where more detail yeilds good ROI for the time.
I don't bother cleaning out primer pockets either; there have been tests that show it's a waste of time.
I don't need to lube the inside of the case necks of my bolt gun cases; using a Lee Collet Neck Sizer it's unnecessay. It is also easier on necks allowing less trimming and longer life, avoiding work hardening. It's a great option for bolt action rifles; autos need full length sizing everytime. When I do I use Imperial sizing wax inside necks and I don't clean em; burning powder does that.
It's all a matter of what YA like appearance-wise. These aren't necessary steps but if you like to putter over the bench there is nothing wrong at all with doin them.
I love to shoot a lot so there are rifles I load fast for; others that are precision longer range hunting tools where more detail yeilds good ROI for the time.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,344
- 3,185
some "lubes" are non-contaminating. Like Imperial and Mica.....
- Thread starter
- #10
Thanks efw, about the fired formed brass , I know that is for bolt action and for the rifle they are formed too.efw":1p5u4so3 said:
I understand that it's not a good idea for a hunting situation in case of a stuck case.
I have a headspace Guage and I have measured unfired brass and once fired brass and the only thing different is a slight swelling at the Web.
I've set zero on a loaded round at the shoulder and compared it to a once fired case and it goes to zero as well.
So how many times of firing does it take on a case before it starts growing
and having heads pace issues ?
I have a RCBS FL die set. A Lee decaping die I just bought today.
I also have some RCBS case lube 2 , midway USA says it won't contaminate powder.
I looked for some mica but sportsman's warehouse was out of it and imperial too .
- Thread starter
- #11
Ray,
You know all I've ever used for any type of ammo (hunting, target, blasting) in my bolt guns is neck sizers. The vast majority are LCDs, but there are cartridges that aren't covered by Lee so I use the Hornady caliber-specific neck sizers in those rifles. I don't FLS hunting ammo, but have been warned about issues enough that I test chamber hunting ammo prior to the season and even in my one straight-pull action (which doesn't allow the leverage/cramming power to to really drive a tight case home) I've never had a "sticky round" that wouldn't chamber.
Other more experienced loaders than me have said they have to bump shoulders every few firings when running a neck sizer but I've not had that happen mine. I don't doubt for a moment that others have had the issue, but in the 4 rifles I have whose brass gets worked pretty hard and has been loaded 8+ times, I've not had that issue YET.
As for case head expansion I've had the vast majority of my attrition take place because of cracked necks. If you're loading at sane levels I would expect this will be your experience as well. Brass cases properly cared for can easily be used 15-20x if annealed and if loaded to spec.
I've observed that like most things reloading can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it, provided you observe basic safety precautions of working up loads safely and keeping a load manual & chronograph nearby. Sometimes (like last winter which seemed to last FOREVER) I went for the complicated side, other times (like during the summer when I'd prefer to be out shooting) I go for the less complicated "brass tacks" style. I can tell you with a very high degree of certainty that when it comes time to hit the vitals of a game animal from field positions at my typical hunting ranges the difference between ammo from those two methods is not noticeable.
You know all I've ever used for any type of ammo (hunting, target, blasting) in my bolt guns is neck sizers. The vast majority are LCDs, but there are cartridges that aren't covered by Lee so I use the Hornady caliber-specific neck sizers in those rifles. I don't FLS hunting ammo, but have been warned about issues enough that I test chamber hunting ammo prior to the season and even in my one straight-pull action (which doesn't allow the leverage/cramming power to to really drive a tight case home) I've never had a "sticky round" that wouldn't chamber.
Other more experienced loaders than me have said they have to bump shoulders every few firings when running a neck sizer but I've not had that happen mine. I don't doubt for a moment that others have had the issue, but in the 4 rifles I have whose brass gets worked pretty hard and has been loaded 8+ times, I've not had that issue YET.
As for case head expansion I've had the vast majority of my attrition take place because of cracked necks. If you're loading at sane levels I would expect this will be your experience as well. Brass cases properly cared for can easily be used 15-20x if annealed and if loaded to spec.
I've observed that like most things reloading can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it, provided you observe basic safety precautions of working up loads safely and keeping a load manual & chronograph nearby. Sometimes (like last winter which seemed to last FOREVER) I went for the complicated side, other times (like during the summer when I'd prefer to be out shooting) I go for the less complicated "brass tacks" style. I can tell you with a very high degree of certainty that when it comes time to hit the vitals of a game animal from field positions at my typical hunting ranges the difference between ammo from those two methods is not noticeable.
- Thread starter
- #13
Thanks EFW, since we're on sizing , I want to run this by you or anyone else that would like to comment.
Let's say I prep some new brass, find an accurate load for my 3006 and I'm below max pressure ( hopefully ) .
When I go to resize again using a FL die, if the cases are still with in spec , will the cases be subject to change in dimensions ?
I guess what I'm trying to ask is would It be only neck sizing with a FL die if the dimensions have not changed.
My thought so far (or maybe) is to set my FL die to a new factory case to match head space and when it begins to stretch, it'll be ready to go when it's time .
Let's say I prep some new brass, find an accurate load for my 3006 and I'm below max pressure ( hopefully ) .
When I go to resize again using a FL die, if the cases are still with in spec , will the cases be subject to change in dimensions ?
I guess what I'm trying to ask is would It be only neck sizing with a FL die if the dimensions have not changed.
My thought so far (or maybe) is to set my FL die to a new factory case to match head space and when it begins to stretch, it'll be ready to go when it's time .
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
I use Imperial sizing wax on the outside of the case and graphite/glass ball lube on the necks, inside and out.
Yes, dimensions of brass will change. I haven't found that to be an issue for me. One thing of note is that each time you fire and full length size cases you work harden the brass removing it's elasticity. This reduces case life. By next sizing, you can increase case life because you're not work hardening the whole case but just the neck which can be annealed to bring back elasticity.
Some have found once-fired/neck sized cases are more accurate than brand new because the increased size fits your chamber better (assuming they're dedicated cases for a single rifle). This has not been demonstrated in my rifles, but I haven't fired a lot of brand new cases in my rifles since I do neck size and get such good life from them.
I think a couple bservations I've made about this hobby is that there are many good ways to produce accurate ammo; there is no One Way. The other is that while hunting rifles can produce extraordinarily precise groups, they can't be made to shoot (and as by yers we don't need them to be) like benchrest rifles.
You'll find your preferred method as you go along. You're doing the right thing by asking questions! Best of luck!
Some have found once-fired/neck sized cases are more accurate than brand new because the increased size fits your chamber better (assuming they're dedicated cases for a single rifle). This has not been demonstrated in my rifles, but I haven't fired a lot of brand new cases in my rifles since I do neck size and get such good life from them.
I think a couple bservations I've made about this hobby is that there are many good ways to produce accurate ammo; there is no One Way. The other is that while hunting rifles can produce extraordinarily precise groups, they can't be made to shoot (and as by yers we don't need them to be) like benchrest rifles.
You'll find your preferred method as you go along. You're doing the right thing by asking questions! Best of luck!
Something I've been using is powdered graphite lubricant for locks, put some shotgun shell BB's (Anything smaller than 7 1/2) put some of the powdered graphite in with it give it a shake from time to time . just dip the case necks into the BB's.. I want to say this idea came from Larry Willis website
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
Yes, they are both minerals, Mica is cleaner but does not have the lubricity of Graphite. If you are using a carbide sizer, it may not matter. With a steel sizer button, I would definitely use graphite.
- Thread starter
- #19
