New Zeiss scopes are out

[257 Ackley]

Zeiss introduced the new HD5 models right after the first of the year. Everything is made and put together in Germany on these new models. Might be part of the reason some of the old models were being blown out by retailers before the end of the year. The 3-15 with lockable target turret looks interesting for a LR scope under 16 ounces.

http://sportsoptics.zeiss.com/hunting/e ... t-hd5.html

 

[Guest]

Saw these via another forum earlier today. Street prices are in line with the Duralyt series, meaning they're a level up from the original Conquest. That's a shame, as I believe the Conquest line sold more Zeiss glass to folks than anything else they could have done. I've seen it a hundred times - guy gets a deal on a Conquest 3-9x40, can't believe how clear and sharp it is, and ends up buying several more in 3.5-10x44 and 4.5-14x44 and maybe even a Diavari on sale. Zeiss ends up creating a customer for life in that respect. But with an $800+ price tag as point of entry, Zeiss will immediately lose something like 75-80% of the shooting public, I suspect. That's a pretty significant market to turn your back on. Now, if they're keeping the original Conquest lineup as their point of entry, I think they're potentially onto something here. But with all the sales and lack of availability, I wonder if the original Conquest lineup is done. Didn't I hear they moved or closed their facility here in the States?

 

[SJB358]

Zeiss introduced the new HD5 models right after the first of the year. Everything is made and put together in Germany on these new models. Might be part of the reason some of the old models were being blown out by retailers before the end of the year. The 3-15 with lockable target turret looks interesting for a LR scope under 16 ounces.

http://sportsoptics.zeiss.com/hunting/e ... t-hd5.html

Uh oh! Those look mighty nice Joel! Another possible scope for the 338.....

 

[257 Ackley]

Scott -
I thought of you as soon as I saw these scopes. I'm not crazy about the reticle options for the 3-15 or 5-25 that have the target turrets, but it gets you into a really nice scope on par with a Z5 for less than $1000. I think I'm going to get one of the 3-15's with a target turret.
Cheers

 

[tddeangelo]

Hmmm.....I have a 25-06 that will pull double duty on deer and some varminting. That 3-15 HD5 looks like one I need to include on the list of possibilities as a scope for that rifle....

 

[SJB358]

Scott -
I thought of you as soon as I saw these scopes. I'm not crazy about the reticle options for the 3-15 or 5-25 that have the target turrets, but it gets you into a really nice scope on par with a Z5 for less than $1000. I think I'm going to get one of the 3-15's with a target turret.
Cheers

Without a doubt Joel. Once they hit the pro deal, I think I will be looking really closely at them. That 3-15 looks really nice to me.

 

[JD338]

I really like that 5-25x50mm. That would be a nice fit on my 338 RUM.

JD338

 

[tddeangelo]

Yeesh....and they call the 300 H&H the "Ouch & Ouch"?????

 

[DrMike]

Zeiss makes nice glass, and I have enjoyed Zeiss scopes for a long time. Somehow, these just don't do a lot for me anymore. Design has lost aesthetic appeal, reticles don't stimulate excitement, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I am less than enthusiastic about all their changes.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I am disappointed that Zeiss did not improve the current Conquest line and leave it as "Made in US". I worked a great deal with German speciality machinery companies and they can be pretty rigid about doing things "their way or the highway", especially in mechanical design. It was a long learning process on both sides to finally get our vendors in Germany to understand that we are not fools, just different. I bought (for our company) about $30 million of German designed assembly equipment. It was not any better really or more reliable than what we designed and built ourselves. In fact, as designed, it was not robust enough to meet our manufacturing needs. The Germans are not perfect, they are human after all.

So now we lose another German scope manufacturer's products which were available to the average hunter at a very cost effective price point and were made in the US. Kahles was the other German/Austrian optical product made in the US who failed at manufacturing here in the US for various reasons. Too bad that these European companies revert to being nationalistic, lacking respect for us and being parochial instead of making the cultural adjustment and getting along with the best of both worlds. I am very disappointed that Zeiss did not try harder to continue operations here. I feel that this is a management failure on their part.

In thinking further about this, I can not get excited about paying $1000 for essentially the same product as they made here because German overhead and labor costs are so high. I am less than enthusiastic about this entire gambit on Zeiss' part. They need to mature and stop being parochial. I bet that they did not have one senior engineering or operation's manager in their entire US operation who was not German. I rest my case on Mercedes' mismanagement of Chrysler.

 

[257 Ackley]

Has the decision been made to discountinue the original Conquest scope? I haven't heard that for a fact and they still show it on their website. The HD scopes are an improvement on the Conquest from talking to someone that has looked through the HD model already. It uses the same quality of Schott glass and coatings as the Victory line, which even my eyes can tell a difference between them. The Victory line of Zeiss has glass close to or as good as the Swarovski Z5 or 6 glass and the HD5 scopes are at a price point much lower than them.

They are using the same mechanical components with the HD line as the Conquest, so there is some cost savings. These are meant to be hunting scopes, not tactical scopes so even the models with target turrets have a low profile to help ensure they don't get caught on branches and such if you are stalking in heavy cover. Look at the target turrets on some of the scopes other companies sell that stick up 1-2 inches above the scope...not what I want to carry.

Made in America doesn't mean much to me anymore when I look at where parts and components come from today. I like quality in optics, and nobody has come close to the Germans and Austrians in manufacturing optics IMO. March and US Optics build some great tactical and BR scopes that are used in specialized applications, but they really don't qualify as scopes we slap on our hunting rifles and hump mountains with. Zeiss owns the "sandbox", so they get to decide where they will be made...good for them in my book.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I'd be happy if they bring the same 5x magnification to the Conquest line. The quality of the Conquests is good enough for me and the 1.5-8x42 would be a perfect scope for my needs.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I assume that they are going to phase out the US made Conquest because Zeiss does not discount nor do they normally put any of their scope models on sale with rebates in addition. I would hope that they would continue to manufacture Conquest MC models here since Schott also has a manufacturing presence in the US.

I may have characterized them unfairly and if so I am sorry. It is just that I saw so much of this parochialism when I was working and it occurred on both sides, with both the Germans and the Japanese. It seems as though multinational cooperation and manufacturing integration is made much more difficult than it otherwise has to be because of cultural biases on both sides.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I just received a notification bulletin from Cameraland NY on the HD scopes. The 2-10x42 HD5 scope is listed at $799.99 and they go up from there. They also stated that the new Conquest HD5 scopes and binoculars are being produced in Germany.

 

[257 Ackley]

I may have characterized them unfairly and if so I am sorry. It is just that I saw so much of this parochialism when I was working and it occurred on both sides, with both the Germans and the Japanese. It seems as though multinational cooperation and manufacturing integration is made much more difficult than it otherwise has to be because of cultural biases on both sides.

Where I have experienced manufacturing problems is with NAFTA regulations on the product we sell in NA. The "free trade agreement" has created more headaches than it is worth some days. I have far less problems dealing with the Scandinavian and German companies that I sell to than some of the regulations we have to meet to ship to Canada. As long as we have a "CE" mark for our product, Europe doesn't seem to care. All the companies I deal with in Europe see that my product is better than what they have and make buying decisions. I worked for a multinational corporation for 28 years and will never go near that world again :twisted: . Nothing like being a slave...

 

[Oldtrader3]

Amen to that with being a slave to a big company! Where I had problem was, that we would go to a two day design review and discuss several design alternatives, get a concensus, I would leave and come back a few weeks later and they had done something totally different from what we agreed to! Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but it was not what we agreed to do. They were creative but not practical.

Then they sent us a machine without hardened cams and working parts because we pushed for delivery as they were 6 months late. The soft cam issue shut us down for 2 weeks. That was 300,000 widgets a day that we did not make for 2 weeks on each of two machines that they had not hardened parts on. They don't seem to understand production and costs.

I guess that these things are normal but they highlight the cultural diferences. I like the German's. It is just some of their ideas on manufacturing that are different.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I'll check out the scoop on the Conquests at the SHOT Show in a week or so and report back.