Nosler 48 - Vanguard?

[todbartell]

Upon further inspection of a Nosler 48, next to a Weatherby Vanguard, I found they are one in the same! :shock:

I will admit the 48 is alot more refined, but I was kind of suprised that Nosler would use such a low priced action for their custom rifles, despite how effective the Vanguard action may be.

 

[Dave Regan]

This poses the question, who is making the actions?. I have only had a quick look at a model 48 but to my untrained eye they appeared to be an Investment Cast action. (nothing wrong with that - I think both Montana and Ruger use the lost wax method of investment casting their actions and bolts)

Thinking about this, I have not seen anything to say that the actual actions are made in the U.S. - perhaps someone with additional information might comment.

Still a very impressive rifle.

D.R.

 

[Nosler4]

The Nosler action was designed in house by our engineering team and incorporates features from many fine rifles. Our actions are are manufactured in the United States along with the other parts used in the rifle.

 

[todbartell]

designed in house? not from scratch, that is for sure. They slabbed a Howa/Vanguard and coated it with MicroSlick, install a great trigger, and drop it in a quality fiberglass stock.

Dont get me wrong, it's a hell of a rifle and I do like it, but its nothing more than a custom Weatherby VG

 

[Nosler4]

Show me one action that is a completely new design built within the last 25 years. There are no current production action designs that are truely unique or do not have similiar features.

Focus on our entire system, not just the action.

 

[Guest]

I haven't looked too thoroughly at the Nosler rifle, but I can speak fairly intelligently about the Howa/Vanguard action. It has been around a long while, but, interestingly enough, is nearly a copy of the Remington 700 action, truth be told. If you read much on the subject of rifle actions, you'll also find that everything that has two main locking lugs directly opposed on the bolt are considered to have descended from the original Mauser action, whether they have controlled round feed or push feed. So, apparently, Nosler imitated the Vanguard (maybe), which imitated the Remington 700, which imitated the Mauser. So there's nothing new in rifledom since 1898.

As an aside, I suspect that Nosler didn't just 'slab side' a Vanguard action and call it their own. I imagine if we checked out all the specs, there are some significant differences in the quality of the steel, the QC in manufacturing, and potentially the design of the bolt (do the firing pins interchange?), the trigger design, and various other aspects. I begin to wonder if all the parts interchange (like the floorplate, bolt, trigger, etc.). Just food for thought.

 

[Skeetsbo]

Most modern day rifles are modifiied actions of someone elses original design so what are you guys getting at. If you want a complete custom action you'll find that will be a more costly proposition. The componets on this gun are of outstanding quality and the guns shoot great so what's your point? They do exactly what they advertise! I think if they were as substandard as some of you imply it may have been caught by a few gunwritiers by now ! Besides one of you in another post raved about how the gun functioned. Very few companies make the complete gun in house anymore at this price point and many don't costing thousands more! Given the level of quality componets used in their assembly it would be impossible! Couple that with Nosler's long standing reputation and you have a great buy. The quality of the steels all the same when you make a firearm it's the tolerances, fit and finish that make a difference. They've taken the time to make sure it's engineered to their standards and passes their ridgid QC. Nosler products have always been noted for quality and this one certainly isn't an exception to that standard!

 

[bluegrass bubba]

Bring on the Lefties, I'm ready to order one.

 

[Guest]

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post, Skeetsbo, as I am in the same line of thought as you are. There's a reason Nosler sells it for $2500 and a Vanguard (which is still a decent rifle) goes for $500.

 

[rick smith]

Some folks always have to throw rocks, they can't help themselves. Usually it is the ones who won't save to get a high quality firearm and it makes them feel better with their selection. If one checks with any good gunsmith, the price for a trued Rem/Win action with an aftermarket barrel in a McM stock will cost more than the Nosler and not be any better.Rick.

 

[cloverleaf]

I havent priced out the "good stuff" cause I know I cant afford it. I do know if you put a good trigger, Hart barrell, and an aftermarket stock on the old Savage in the corner the price goes up QUICKLY. And thats not to say that the ones Ron Coburn and the boys put together wont shoot- they do.

As for design, aside from J. Browning and P Mauser there hasent been a significant design improvement particularly in bolt actions in a LONG LONG time.

I supect what you get with the Nosler is fit, finish, and a guarentee. Long as they perform as advertised nothing keeps me from buying a mossberg rifle that may or may not do the same. Maybe the noslers match the Weatherby I dont know. Nosler limits the production so people think they are getting somthing that few others have. You pay for exclusivity too. De Loreans may have been a great idea, and maybe a great car (maybe not) in many respects but they werent made for every body. The Volkswagen beetle was made for that. That dont mean I want one of either by the way

What its worth and is it worth what you paid for it is a personal decision as long as it meets certain standards of function and quality. Just my .02...but opinions are like belly buttons...we all got 'em. If you enjoy it... thats the value...IMHO CL

 

[todbartell]

Some folks always have to throw rocks, they can't help themselves. Usually it is the ones who won't save to get a high quality firearm and it makes them feel better with their selection.

that is not the case at all. I could go buy the Nosler 48 tommorow and I probably would if I didnt already have similar rifles (700 stainless laminate 280 and 700 stainless fluted B&C stock 30-06). I also have a custom barrel 260 in a mcmillan mtn rifle stock and a 700 Titanium 260 in a Mcmillan edge. im not meaning to brag, Im just hoping to put into perspective where I am here. The nosler rifle is a good rifle, I am not saying that it isnt. I just found it kind of odd that they'd base their design around the vanguard/howa

 

[Guest]

The nosler rifle is a good rifle, I am not saying that it isnt. I just found it kind of odd that they'd base their design around the vanguard/howa

Perhaps they patterned it after the Remington 700? (The Howa action is a near copy of the 700.) Either way, the gun is built here in the US, and made to Nosler's specs, with an arguably better barrel and assembly QC. Would you pay a custom gunsmith $2500-5000 for a custom gun? Because that gun, which could likely be more accurate than anyone can shoot, would more than likely be based on a Remington 700 action, or a clone thereof. Even the custom actions are all basically clones of the 700 or a 98 Mauser, with a few tweaks. Does that make them worth less than what they are charging? I guess it could, but then again, if they guarantee them to shoot, I'm not going to complain. I wish I had the coin for a 48, but right now I'm too deep in Weatherbys to spare it. Maybe later on...

 

[Skeetsbo]

Dubyam I thought your post was excellent! And I concurr !

 

[HunterJim]

D'Arcy Echols is probably the best known custom builder of M70 bases rifles, and he takes what some think is already a good action and makes something like 80 separate modifications to the action before he is satisfied and uses it in a rifle.

The Howa is an excellent modern action, and Weatherby reportedly sells more Vanguard rifles based on their Vanguard action from Howa than they do Weatherby Mark V. The Sub-MOA Vanguards are a great example of top accuracy can be had with a Howa.

The Howa is a forged and machined flat-bottom action which has considerable differences from the round Remington M700. All of this build up to say that even if Nosler begins with a Howa/Vanguard they certainly end up in a different place from the Howa rifles or the Vanguards.

I don't have any shooting experience with the M48, but I would like to fix that.

jim

 

[nickshultz]

I own a Model 48 and can care less that its the "same as" or "based" off a Howa action. The fact is...I like the feel, quality, and function of the Model 48, so there for its worth it to me to buy it over another rifle that may be similar in action design. The Model 48 is truely a fine rifle and it becomes really apparent when you shoot one.

 

[bullet]

WOW!!! What a discussion. I have a custom Weatherby Mark V in 300Wby and 375Wby and the 300Wby was 2500.00 and my 375wby was 4100.00 and they both shoot under 1/4" three shot groups. Now my Mark V Synthetic that cost me 725.00 (I got a good deal) shoots 3/4" with five shot groups and is not a custom. I do like my customs, they are special and I like my new production tupper ware Synthetic Mark V. I say all of this to say that Nosler does a very good job in making a good accurate custom bolt action rifle that is beautiful to boot. It is unique and it is what it is. If you want one buy it and if not don't say it is something it is not because it is similar to some other none custom rifle. Really some people need to get a life. You don't like it then don't buy it but don't make comments that do not represent what it is - A FINE EXAMPLE OF WHAT AMERICAN'S CAN DO WITH A BASIC DESIGN AND MAKE SOMETHING SPECIAL AND UNIQUE.

 

[HunterJim]

Since I first posted in this thread I have continued to look for comparisons in these rifles. It looks to me after additional study that they share a common Finnish ancestry from Sako.

Also you can license designs and produce them yourself (or by a third party of your choice). I expect that adequately explains the similarities and the differences folks insist on in this thread.

jim

 

[Idahotrophyhunter]

Is the nicer model 48 trigger guard interchangeable for a vanguard?

 

[russ808]

I had two vanguards in 300wsm and 30-06 and a nosler 48 sporter. All three shot very well. The two vanguards went to new homes even after going to Africa and Australia and I kept the 48. And I will keep the 48. Its just feels and shoots a little better. And thats good enough for me.
Russ