Please Analize My Groups

[SJB358]

With this particular batch the cases had only been fired 3 times prior. All Remington cases trimmed at 2.025" BTW.

The reason I asked was it might not hurt to anneal the cases to reset the brass and allow each neck to sized and have the springiness restored. I was running into the same as you with my 7WSM. Neck tension was the same. Annealed them and groups came back the spreads tightened up for me.

 

[bullet]

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaing about the size of my groups. I've just want to close them up a bit more.


35R

Hey, I understand about wanting to close them up my friend. I think a powder change and unless it is Bergers, don't put those bullet so close the lands, give them a jump, especially a bonded or partitioned bullet. Good luck, let us know how it does.

 

[AzDak42]

One thing that we tend to miss with our reloading blinders on is the human element. I've just about tossed my brass in the garbage and walked away after going back for a second pass with the same load and having a horrible range day. I've had a load with new brass go 1/2" for 5 groups, and my next trip out, I'm pulling a 1" group with some really bad fliers. Was it the load? Was it the coffee I had that morning instead of skipping it like I know I should have? Was it the hour less sleep from the night before?

In the creation of highly accurate ammo, so many variables go into making a great group that I'm a firm believer in building up a lot of data. I stop working on a load when it's had 3-4 trips to the range with a lot of rounds downrange where I can consistently get it to shoot exactly like I expect.

so.. the short version...

Go get more data. I think you have two fantastic starting loads, but go put down another bunch of 3 shot groups and do it on a few more days. After all that data is assembled, you'll have a lot better idea the real accuracy potential and maybe what to try and refine further.

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

I say get you a Hornady Concintricty gage and fix the run out and get them as close to perfect as you can get them as the so called flyer would not surprise me to be way outta limits in Concintricity I say #1 in group and #5 were way outta limits and this tool will fix this and easy to get them near perfect!

 

[Oldtrader3]

My problem is not ammo concentricity, I have a RCBS gauge setup for that. My problem is operator eccentricity which there is no gage for, except maybe an EKG machine. Every time that you halve group size, you square the difficulty index, because of the area change (Pi are round and all that). I sometimes have ammo sit for three weeks after I make it and group it with no issues, then get flyers. Half inch groups are harder than they look in the ablity to be shooting them continuously.

 

[SJB358]

I say get you a Hornady Concintricty gage and fix the run out and get them as close to perfect as you can get them as the so called flyer would not surprise me to be way outta limits in Concintricity I say #1 in group and #5 were way outta limits and this tool will fix this and easy to get them near perfect!

Terry! Welcome aboard buddy! Glad you finally got into here!

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

Thank's Scotty! I know you are ready to packum up and head to K Town and eventually Da House! Have a good nap or 2 on the way home! Extra Hot Green Chili waiting for ya when ya come thru ABQ one of these days!

 

[SJB358]

Thank's Scotty! I know you are ready to packum up and head to K Town and eventually Da House! Have a good nap or 2 on the way home! Extra Hot Green Chili waiting for ya when ya come thru ABQ one of these days!

Nice, that chili sounds really good Terry.. Whats a guy gotta do to buy a little of that off ya. I love the Green Chili!

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

http://youtu.be/TMmWXCVwYPw
this stuff will tighten any large groups if prepared properly

 

[DrMike]

That gets my mouth watering. We've been known to drive fourteen hours just to pick up some jalapenos and chipotles.

 

[usmc 89]

Try this I know most will recoil at the mention of this but run about 30-40 rounds through and then shoot your groups. clean the chamber and hit the bore with carbon remover if you want but I am finding my stuff is shooting better after 30_40 rounds than it is at 5-10 rounds the middlested was a shining example of this it wouldn't shoot under 3/4 with less than 6 rounds through it. I don't shoot the best rifles in the world but I am shooting them a lot more between cleaning than most do. I also think a lot of people over clean a rifle. I'm not saying run a hundred rounds and throw it in the closet you should run an oil or bore conditioner through after a firing session. "Brand New barrels will need the break in period applied of course" try it before you poo poo it.

 

[SJB358]

http://youtu.be/TMmWXCVwYPw
this stuff will tighten any large groups if prepared properly

Man, that looks pretty darned good Terry!

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

It's on and the roasters are making lots of noise and this stuff could make a combat boot taste good! Harvest time in the Mesilla Valley is ON

 

[Oldtrader3]

USMC 89, Hmm! I will have to see what correlation I get from shooting a dirty barrel and groups. My intuition tells me that there in no excess ANOVA dispersion between groups at the typical range session of 30-40 rounds and group size. Except for the occasional flyer which is me not paying attention, my groups seem to be boringly predictable within what I would expect for variance using Six Sigma projections of the sum of the squares for bullet spread from mean. This of course based on the difference between a 4-shot group and a 40-shot group. I will have to set up an experiment of 4-shot groups and see what happens to dispersion with the sum-of-the-squares over 40 rounds.

I do not thoroughly clean with a bore brush except once a year, when I store the rifle for winter. Mostly, I use Shooters Choice on a couple of wet patches and then run clean patches until the green stops. Then finally run a dryish oil patch for storage after each range session. Now I have to decide what rifle to do this with?

 

[35R]

I thought for a moment this thread was highjacked. :mrgreen: Anyway......

USMC89 I normally shoot around 30-50 rounds through my rifles before I clean them up. And, I have not seen any differences in group size whether the barrel is clean or not. I do however, seen a different POI if the barrel had been oiled.

I went back to the range to finish up that batch of 50 rds that I've loaded up. I will post a pic of a nice "4 shot group" (guess where the fifth one went) whenever I get a chance.

35R

 

[SJB358]

Jeff, I imagine you are right buddy. I notice that with my 264WM which is probably the most overbore cartridge I own. I did load work up, zeroed it up well, took it out to the long range and shot all day. Overall, about 45-50 rounds and it continued to shoot 1/2" or better everytime. I might have to try it out some. Thanks for the wake up call. It is hard for me to not clean them though, too many years of being beat down by the man!

 

[35R]

Well here is what I get using 45 grains of VARGET

It's becoming pretty obvious this is definately "Operator's Malfuntion" :roll: :roll: :roll:

I've already loaded up another batch to try next time at the range...

35R

 

[dlove]

I'd call that done. more testing will just be to satisfy your curiosity.

 

[SJB358]

WOW!!! Great load right there!

 

[usmc 89]

What about that flier at the very top of the target?