- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,105
- 2,669
No never...But I have seen bullets fail.
Poor bullet penetration???
- Thread starter Guy Miner
- Start date
Like the man says, my only loss was due to the nut behind the gun :roll:I have lost only 3 deer out of well over 200 I have shot. One was when I was playing with a 7mm Rem mag which is IMO and experience the worst WT deer rifle I have ever used. I shot a 7 point buck at around 200 yards right square in the front shoulders broad side to me. He did what 9 out of the 11 deer that I shot with this rifle did. Jump up in the air and take off like a rocket. I was trying the Hornady 139 gr SP that day. I am a very experienced tracker and when I went to find that deer I could not find any blood at all. I walked and circled for over 3 hours until it got too dark and saw not one speck of sign of that deer. This was my last day to hunt and had to go home the next morning. My hunting buddy found this deer 3 days later when the buzzards showed him where it was. It had gone around 200 yards and before it died it had crawled up under a big patch of cuddzoo vine and was completely hidden. I had walked within feet of this deer and could not see it. He said that the bullet had struck the deer in the center of the front shoulder and there was no exit. I used the Hornady 139, 154, Sierra 150 and Speer 145 grand slam bullets in this 7mm mag to shoot 11 deer. All deer except 3 were shot right square in the front shoulders broad side. All the deer except two ran off from 50 to 200 yards before they went down. Two dropped on the spot. One with a 145 Speer GS that was heart shot close up to the back of the front shoulder the other was hit in the right back ham with a 139 Hornady. This buck at the moment that my trigger broke the shot jumped forward after a doe he was trailing and in that split second of his jump and by the time the bullet traveled a little over 200 yards it connected in the center of his hams and put him down. I had to give him a finishing shot to kill him. It wiped out his hams totally. The other two deer that I lost were shot with cast bullets from my 45-70 with lung shots. They left no blood trail and went into a huge very very thick underbrush cut-over where you would have had to step on them to find them.
This all goes to show you that no matter what caliber or bullets you use the strange just happens. It has always amazed me how you can completely destroy the vitals of an animal and they will go for hundreds of yards. The two best put them down on the spot bullets I have ever used on deer is the 25 cal. 117 Sierra Pro Hunter and the 30 cal. Nosler 125 gr. Ballistic Tip. So far with the 125 ballistic tip from two different rifles a 30X47 HBR and a 308 around 15 deer have been shot and all of them have dropped dead in their tracks. I have killed well over 100 deer with a 25-06 and the 117 Sierra and 99.9% of them have been dropped in their tracks. For the first ever I did have a deer get up off the ground and go about 50 yards after taking a center broad side front shoulder shot from the 25-06 and the 117 Sierra this year. Some animals just have that super will to live.
This all goes to show you that no matter what caliber or bullets you use the strange just happens. It has always amazed me how you can completely destroy the vitals of an animal and they will go for hundreds of yards. The two best put them down on the spot bullets I have ever used on deer is the 25 cal. 117 Sierra Pro Hunter and the 30 cal. Nosler 125 gr. Ballistic Tip. So far with the 125 ballistic tip from two different rifles a 30X47 HBR and a 308 around 15 deer have been shot and all of them have dropped dead in their tracks. I have killed well over 100 deer with a 25-06 and the 117 Sierra and 99.9% of them have been dropped in their tracks. For the first ever I did have a deer get up off the ground and go about 50 yards after taking a center broad side front shoulder shot from the 25-06 and the 117 Sierra this year. Some animals just have that super will to live.
- Thread starter
- #24
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,548
- 4,903
Interesting account. You've got a LOT of experience with deer.
For what it's worth - the 7mm Rem mag really seemed to come to life for me with 160 - 175 grain bullets. Complete penetration on bull elk with the 175 Nosler and one dead bull elk that only took a few faltering steps before falling. Suspect more bullet would have served you well, the 160 Nosler Partition pushed to about 3000 - 3100 fps is a real favorite in the 7mm Rem mag and more than capable of handling deer & elk.
Interesting about the .45/70 - I like it too - but have limited experience with it. Am thinking a cast bullet through the lungs is not a way to quickly stop a deer though.
Thanks for the terrific input - you've got a ton of experience on deer! Thanks! :grin: Guy
For what it's worth - the 7mm Rem mag really seemed to come to life for me with 160 - 175 grain bullets. Complete penetration on bull elk with the 175 Nosler and one dead bull elk that only took a few faltering steps before falling. Suspect more bullet would have served you well, the 160 Nosler Partition pushed to about 3000 - 3100 fps is a real favorite in the 7mm Rem mag and more than capable of handling deer & elk.
Interesting about the .45/70 - I like it too - but have limited experience with it. Am thinking a cast bullet through the lungs is not a way to quickly stop a deer though.
Thanks for the terrific input - you've got a ton of experience on deer! Thanks! :grin: Guy
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,344
- 626
this is a touchy subject, have read many reports of bullet failures but, in my mind the only way you would know if you had a bullet failure is to remove it from a deceased game animal, then could you still say it failed?
I've taken literaly hundreds of deer, with many different rifles at ranges from 3 yards to way farther than some folks thing should be possible.I've recovered 3 bullets that left alot to be desired, some would say they failed but those 3 deer were just as dead as any I ever shot.
2 of those were with 140 gr BT's from the early days, when they were packaged 100 per box, shot 2 bucks on back to back mornings, one was 23 yards, the other was 28, with a 7mm rem mag. neither exited, both separated, one buck was a bang flop, the other ran 30 yards or so.
the other was last year, wasn't a failure , just simply using the wrong bullet for the task at hand.
I worked up an accurate load for my 6.5 gibbs, and was working on a good hunting load around the 140 gr a-max, things weren't going well, and I just couldn't get the load right, so the night before deer season I decided to use my target loads since they were shooting .3 MOA to well past 700 yards. the bullet was the 139 gr lapua scenar, and I was warned about it on other sights.
The next morning I glassed a bedded doe on a distant hill side, ranged her at 781 yards, and let one rip. the bullet hit just infront of the hip, angleing up through the chest cavity lodgeing under the offside shoulder.
the frontal tip of the bullet broke off at impact (2000 fps) the core and jacket separated and traveled side by side up though the chest, and lodging within 1" of each other on the offside shoulder. the doe never got back on her feet, so can you still say the bullet failed?
I will say that today I still shoot the 140 gr BT from my 7mm STW and have had impacts of 3450 fps and if you stay off the shoulder, most will exit whitetails, and even shot a black bear with it at 40 yards , didn't recover the bullet but it did an awesome job, considering what I was asking it to do.
RR
I've taken literaly hundreds of deer, with many different rifles at ranges from 3 yards to way farther than some folks thing should be possible.I've recovered 3 bullets that left alot to be desired, some would say they failed but those 3 deer were just as dead as any I ever shot.
2 of those were with 140 gr BT's from the early days, when they were packaged 100 per box, shot 2 bucks on back to back mornings, one was 23 yards, the other was 28, with a 7mm rem mag. neither exited, both separated, one buck was a bang flop, the other ran 30 yards or so.
the other was last year, wasn't a failure , just simply using the wrong bullet for the task at hand.
I worked up an accurate load for my 6.5 gibbs, and was working on a good hunting load around the 140 gr a-max, things weren't going well, and I just couldn't get the load right, so the night before deer season I decided to use my target loads since they were shooting .3 MOA to well past 700 yards. the bullet was the 139 gr lapua scenar, and I was warned about it on other sights.
The next morning I glassed a bedded doe on a distant hill side, ranged her at 781 yards, and let one rip. the bullet hit just infront of the hip, angleing up through the chest cavity lodgeing under the offside shoulder.
the frontal tip of the bullet broke off at impact (2000 fps) the core and jacket separated and traveled side by side up though the chest, and lodging within 1" of each other on the offside shoulder. the doe never got back on her feet, so can you still say the bullet failed?
I will say that today I still shoot the 140 gr BT from my 7mm STW and have had impacts of 3450 fps and if you stay off the shoulder, most will exit whitetails, and even shot a black bear with it at 40 yards , didn't recover the bullet but it did an awesome job, considering what I was asking it to do.
RR
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,482
- 6,897
Ridge_Runner
I agree, the 7mm 140 gr BT is an excellent bullet. Matt Smith, formally of Nosler, is the one who turned me on to this bullet for my 280 Rem. He told me that if you hit a deer in the chest, if it runs, he won't go very far. All I can say is that the longest tracking job was a heart shot buck that went 3-4 jumps. Every other deer has dropped in its tracks. 2 Caribou bulls went about 20-25 yards. I have only recovered 1 bullet, found it under the hide of a WT doe. The jacket and core had separated but were together. The deer dropped in its tracks so the bullet did its job, perfectly!
JD338
I agree, the 7mm 140 gr BT is an excellent bullet. Matt Smith, formally of Nosler, is the one who turned me on to this bullet for my 280 Rem. He told me that if you hit a deer in the chest, if it runs, he won't go very far. All I can say is that the longest tracking job was a heart shot buck that went 3-4 jumps. Every other deer has dropped in its tracks. 2 Caribou bulls went about 20-25 yards. I have only recovered 1 bullet, found it under the hide of a WT doe. The jacket and core had separated but were together. The deer dropped in its tracks so the bullet did its job, perfectly!
JD338
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,344
- 626
yeah, since nosler revamped the BT's, they are a great bullet, especialy either at long range or normal velocities. the mags are hard on them to beyond 300 yards, by then they have slowed down enough to behave like a controlled expansion bullet.
my thinking is use the accubonds in the mags, BT's in the standards, I've found that, there is not a better whitetail bullet made than the .257, 115 gr BT at 3000 fps, I have shot almost a dozen deer with them and have yet to recover 1, even when both shoulders are hit, at 3450 it would probably separate and at those velocities the AccuBond is your best bet.
RR
my thinking is use the accubonds in the mags, BT's in the standards, I've found that, there is not a better whitetail bullet made than the .257, 115 gr BT at 3000 fps, I have shot almost a dozen deer with them and have yet to recover 1, even when both shoulders are hit, at 3450 it would probably separate and at those velocities the AccuBond is your best bet.
RR
I started out using the 30 ca. 150 ballistic tip in a 30-06 when they first came out. With 51.2 grs IMR 4064 in a LC case with a Fed. 210M primer it was a tack driver. But when it came to killing deer it left a lot to be desired. The bullet would go in and blow up and never exit even on lung shots. It would scramble the vitals but the deer would run off a good ways and not leave a blood trail. Where I was hunting if a deer got out of the fields the cut-over around the fields was so thick you about could not trail a chalk line through them. I never lost a deer using them but quit using them after 5 or 6 deer shot with them and the loss of pints of blood from crawling through the green briers trying to find them. Then after a while someone told me that they revamped the ballistic tips and made them tougher. I tried some 130's in a 270 and every deer shot was bang flop. I tried some 120's in a 6.5X55 bang flop. I tried the 125's in a 308 bang flop, same in a 30X47 HBR. I will try them some day in my 25-06 but right now I still have a few hundred 117 Sierras that really do the job. I am going to try some 120's in my 264 Win mag that I just got next year. I am going to try some 130 AB's in the 264 also when I can find some. Everybody is sold out right now.
blacktailhunter
Beginner
- Jul 29, 2007
- 95
- 0
Most bullet failures are just stories from "hunting camp know-it-alls." The only time I can say I had what most would consider bullet failure was on an average size three-point blacktail. The first shot was about 250 yds and it felt good when I touched it off. The deer had not moved, so I shot him again, dropping him on the spot.
When my friend and I walked up to him, the first thing I noticed was the base of a bullet lodged in the hide on the ON-SIDE ribs. My friend noticed the nice hole in the neck. We both concluded that the second shot hit him in the neck, therefore breaking it, which dropped him. So, it must have been my first shot that hit him in the ribs.
As I removed the bullet, I noticed that the front section of the bullet was missing. I later discovered that it damaged both lungs quite well.
Regardless of the damage done to the lungs, the entire bullet did not even enter the chest cavity. To me, this is a failure of this one bullet.
The bullet in question: 165grn Nosler Partition fired from a 30/06.
When my friend and I walked up to him, the first thing I noticed was the base of a bullet lodged in the hide on the ON-SIDE ribs. My friend noticed the nice hole in the neck. We both concluded that the second shot hit him in the neck, therefore breaking it, which dropped him. So, it must have been my first shot that hit him in the ribs.
As I removed the bullet, I noticed that the front section of the bullet was missing. I later discovered that it damaged both lungs quite well.
Regardless of the damage done to the lungs, the entire bullet did not even enter the chest cavity. To me, this is a failure of this one bullet.
The bullet in question: 165grn Nosler Partition fired from a 30/06.
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