Quickload Request Please

[kraky1]

Rivrider... I have looked at the start pressure feature but it was awhile ago and maybe I need to revisit it again. I've been studying the online ramshot data information and looking over the new 2016 Hodgdon pamphlet and it's kind of interesting how with certain powders it doesn't seem like they have to reduce them quite as much with mono bullets as some of the old-school powders. I'm not sure if it has something to do with the way the new powders are designed or what

Rol.... I have some guns that like Nosler partitions and some that don't. It very well might be time to look at a different bullet than the Partition or possibly even drift over to trying to make Accubonds go. I don't think you'll be giving up anything going to the 165 even for Elk..... but I'm sure there are more people here with better experience with those big animals than me.

 

[SJB358]

Yesterday the sun was shining and temp 36 degrees and wind was reported @ 12mph. I returned to the range with the 56.8 grain and 55.0 grain Partition loads to see what happened with the 55.0 grain loads at the approximate node value predicted in the second run. The 55.0 grain loads were in weight sorted cases, variation 0.4 grains, annealed, trimmed to 2.484. Same CCI BR2 primers, same lot of H4350, and weight sorted 180 Partitions, 179.9 to 180.1 grains. I checked the seating depth of some Federal Premium 180 Nosler Partitions and the average was right around 2.620 Comparator OAL, so I included the 2.620 in both the 56.8 and 55.0 loads. Federal Factory 180's had produced slightly less than 1" @ 100 yds in previous tests.

The best groups were bullets seated @ 2.620" with 55.0 gr producing 1.360" group and 56.8 gr producing 1.366", which is similar to the factory seating depth. Average velocity with 55.0 grains was 2,677 fps while the 56.8 grains was 2,768 fps.

I am into my last pound of H4350 and last box of 180 Partitions so the search is on for more powder and bullets. Many thanks to all who have provided the Quickload runs and updates, comments and suggestions.

On another note, looking at the 165 grain Nosler Partitions and Accubonds, I see the following:
Partition 180 165
BC .474 .410
SD .271 .248

AccuBond 180 165
BC .507 .475
SD .271 .248

In the real world of hunting, does this make a significant difference in performance, especially penetration on elk and mule deer? I have yet to try 165 grain bullets in my 30-06, but given the frustration with my handloads I am tempted to try something different. Thanks for any suggestions. Rol

Rol, while the factory ammo may be just a bit tighter, I've gotta believe your ammo would be more consistent at further distances due to tighter charges and more consistent components. I'd bet there is more accuracy if you decided to tune a bit further.

Now, I feel like a broken record but my elk hunting partner, Joel Douglas used 165 ABs and H4350 for about 2900 last fall on a good bull. Id have 0 reservations of using that same combo on bull elk or mule deer and enjoying the extra speed for a little flatter shooting. Either the 165 PT or AB will do all you want.

If you get a chance post the pictures of the 2.620" 56.8 group you shot. I'd like to see them.

 

[Rol_P]

Here is the photo Scotty.
The COMP OAL starts @ 2.620" on the left and increases going to the right.

The perplexing thing is that occasionally I get a good group, less that 1" @ 100yds but it is so inconsistent that it is disturbing. I have 100 rounds of new Nosler brass that I have been holding in reserve for after the loads get sorted out, but I think that I will run them through the sizing die to true up the necks and weight sort them to see if that has an impact on accuracy.

 

[kraky1]

I don't know if a primer change might be good.... wlr or fed 210... I'd be real tempted to give them a go?

 

[SJB358]

Rol, than you for posting those. Puts it into perspective for me.

If it were my rifle and load I would likely shorten them 1/4 turn on your 2.620 56.8 grain load. I see 2 and 1 on the 55 and the 56.8 charges.

Now, that's saying all the brass has been shot the same and annealed recently as neck tension will throw a wrench in the works. If your brass is all the same and isn't fire hardened, I'd probably load them up, shorten them 1/4 turn which will be .010 approximately. Reshoot and see what occurs. I think your powder charge at 56.8 is legit, so I'd likely really work the seating depth. You'll see immediately if they will start coming together or spread further apart.

I remember you saying you were about out of H4350, so the trick is getting the next pound and find that same FPS again, the sheer amount doesn't matter, your looking for the speed you've been getting. I have a good feeling you are pretty danged close.

I know it's easier said then done but these fellas have prodded me a few times and it's nearly always made a great load. Good luck and if there is anything I can do in order to help, please ask.

 

[Rol_P]

Today I went to the new Nosler cases, shortened the comp. OAL on 5 rounds as suggested by Scotty, (Thank You Scotty) and loaded 5 @ 56.8gr and 2.695" as my original load. Also took along 5 Federal Premium 180gr Nosler Partitions to test my shooting ability. The cases were sorted for concentricity, all within 0.002" and bullets sorted 179.9gr - 180.1gr. Photo results are below.



I am still waiting for a calm day, but figure the temp and wind may resemble hunting conditions, and at least I will have an idea what the ammo will do if faced with such conditions.

 

[SJB358]

Rol, that factory stuff is pretty good in your rifle, it doesn't leave much on the table at all, BUT your handloads look just as darn good to me and it's nice to know that in a pinch it'll work pretty well and nearly to the same POI.

GREAT stuff. Seems like your load work paid off in my opinion.

 

[Rol_P]

Yes Scotty, Thanks to you and Kracky for your work and encouragement. And thanks to all who have added comments and suggestions. I think that I will set the 180's & H4350 aside and switch to 165 Partitions or Accubonds with Re22. I will also stick with new brass while it lasts, and may even spring for some Lapua to see if it is more precise than Nosler. Thanks again, Rol

 

[Wyo7200]

Have you measured bullet run out? I didn't have a gauge, and rolled a few on a plate of glass and was pretty surprised at how much run out there was, even with the seat twist seat method. I burned nearly 100 ablr's chasing groups, diagnosing possible scope problems, fixing stock issues. I'm fairly certain it was run-out as the test group I did after I got my concentricity gauge and corrected the runout produced the best group ever from the rifle at 1" @200, not counting the cold clean fouler. Just outside 1.5" with the ccf. Still need to shoot it more, but it's showing promise.

Could be something to check for.

 

[kraky1]

I don't know how to say this so I'm just going to say it..... re22 is actually better suited to your 180s while h4350 would be better suited to your 165 work. And I'd sure like to see you work with some fed 210 primers if possible.... that's what's most likely in those Factory rounds.

 

[Rol_P]

Runout on my handloads is generally 0.002 or less. Kracky, I just found some Federal large rifle primers that I forgot about. Will load up some rounds and give it a go, probably next week. We are supposed to get some nasty weather here in the next few days.
Thanks again for all your help. Rol

 

[kraky1]

If you have some Re 22 on hand try 60 grains under those 180 partitions with fed 210s. Nosler says it's the most accurate powder with their 180s. But they're listed load of 62 grains is pretty stiff.

http://www.nosler.com/load-data

 

[kraky1]

Wow... I got my first range day in about six months today. One of the recipes that stunned me was some 165 Nosler partitions in my 22.5 inch Tikka 30 odd 6. 59.0 grains of re 17 had them doing 2900 on the head and I had a four-shot group I could cover with my thumb nail.... there were no signs of pressure whatsoever and quickload thought I was probably cranking only 56k pressure. And if I believed in the Node theory they should have shot really bad because I was stuck right smack-dab between two nodes according to the chart...geez!
I also got to play with some superformance powder and it gave me pretty good groups and fairly clean cases after firing but velocity was a good 100 FPS under what superformance data said it would be. Es was about 10fps.... so even though velocity isn't unbelievable I may still have to play with it some more.
My little 708 venture spit out some really really good groups today too..... re 15 under some 110 T TSX bullets was cranking 3250 FPS and shooting half inch groups....! I use an unweighted LEAD sled for load development and although my shooting should have been pretty Rusty apparently it kept me on track.....lol!

 

[SJB358]

That's some great stuff. That 165 at 2900 is powerful stuff. Seems like that'll ensure your cases last forever as well.

I'm still monkeying with the nodes and such. Good guide but there are a lot of things that manipulate the node in specific rifles I'd bet.

 

[Rol_P]

Got to the range with the Federal primers in spite of the lousy weather forecast. The partitions that I loaded and fired yesterday were weight sorted +/- .1grain. Today I had to accept a few +/- .2grain variance, but I doubt that had a significant affect on groups. There is a very nice 3 shot group of about 0.600" in the handloads. The Federal Factory loads are the same lot as shot yesterday but not sorted for concentricity like the ones used yesterday. From looking at the factory loads it appears that my shooting was off today.

Thanks again for your assistance and insight. Rol

 

[kraky1]

Rol.... here's just an idea that seems to work for me when I'm having a Rusty Day. I try to take a little break like walking down and looking over my targets and putting tape over the bullet holes. I relax a little when I come back to the bench and then I sit down and slide some fired cases into the chamber and practice a little dry firing. I like the orange dots with a black Center. If my crosshairs walk at the "click".... I either try to settle down and overcome it or sometimes I just plain call it a day.
I have to admit I am really lucky ....I shoot at a range about 20 miles away and I rarely run into another shooter there if I am there during working hours.... and that makes a BIG difference.

 

[SJB358]

Another thought is to go another .010 deeper. Just might pull them together further. Speed may go down a touch but it isn't any big deal once you know the seating depth. You can always add a little powder if you want the speed back.