Range day with .284 and .264 LRAB. . .what gives?

[OFFSHORE]

Hello to all. I’ve been a long time “cyber stalker” of this site and a recently registered user, this is my first post. I have found this site and it’s contributing members to be very helpful and informative. Dr. Mike and Ridgerunner665, along with others, have been very helpful to me (although they don’t even know it) in a few of my play toy projects – thank you gentlemen.

I have been tinkering with Reloder 26 powder and LRAB bullets here as of late. I find the powder to be outstanding in two of my pet rifles (will try more as time permits), a 280AI (1-9 twt) and a 6.5x55 Swede (1-8 twt). Both showing exceptional velocity, low pressure signs and cooler burning. . .all seems like a oxymoron, I know. In my little Swede it has brought it into a whole new light . . .2926 FPS with ES and SD in the single digits/low teens! And that is out of a 22” tube with 50.5 grains of powder and a 142 gr. LRAB! ! ! The 280AI with 150 and 168 grain LRAB is pushing high 3100 almost 32’ish with 150 gr., low 3100 with 168 gr. respectively.

Here is my dilemma; To save my life, I cannot get these LRAB bullets to group worth a darn! I have read every post I can find and most folks are running into the same problems. I’ve tried seating depths off the lands from .001” to .014” and powder charges up and down the scale along with primer swaps with no such luck. 1” to 1 ¼” groups is tops from rifles that shoot much better. Is there something I’m missing? I haven’t come across a premium bullet that I couldn’t make shoot, but I think I have met my match!

Before I totally abandon the whole LRAB project, is there any helpful advice you guys can share? I like these bullets for what they are and how they perform on game across the board as far as velocities and distances. . .I just wish my rifles to like them as much. Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[DrMike]

Welcome aboard, Offshore. We always enjoy the contributions of new posters. My experience with LRAB leads me to recommend giving a lot of jump to the lands. As is also true with AccuBonds, I am finding the necessity of allowing up to 0.100 inch jump to the lands to obtain consistent accuracy with these bullets. At the present, my "go to" load in my .280 Rem 24 inch tube is built around the 150 grain ABLR. It gives me excellent accuracy and has been used so far to tag a fine 6X6 elk and a largish mule deer.

 

[jimbires]

I have not messed with the ABLR bullets . I've read about them being hard to get them shooting good groups . I think if I were to start working with them I'd give the berger bullets VLD process a try . here is a link to this .


http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-th ... our-rifle/

 

[Bbear]

I use the AB's and LRAB's in 4 of my rifles. The furthest off of the bunch is in two of my 25-06's and both of those are .1 off of the lands. My 264 WM likes the LRAB at .08 off and the 243 takes them best at .05 off. The 243 has the tightest grouping of the bunch, putting 5 inside of .5" consistently.
Try seating them a bit deeper and see if the groups will tighten up.

 

[OFFSHORE]

Thanks for the quick response from you guys. I have to apologize for my mix up is decimal placement in my above post. . .it should read .010/1000 to .140/1000 off the lands. Any further into the case neck may put the ogive in the neck - LOL. The .284 150gr. touches the lands at 2.815" to the ogive and will give me the best group (of 1") at 2.700". My Swede is best at 2.495" I may just stick with my trusty A-Max's, they've never let me down, I just don't know if they will be making any more, heard they are being discontinued. I'll try some more seated a little deeper. Thank you, guys.

 

[SJB358]

Offshore, welcome aboard. Your Swede info is pretty danged awesome as is your 280 Imp'ed. I also ran through the ABLRs in a couple of rifles that were extremely accurate with similar AB or PT's but couldn't sort out the ABLRs. I think Jim mentioned the Berger method which would probably be a decent place to start again if you really wanna make them work. Seems like you've got plenty of twist for both of them so that should not be an issue.

Good luck with your loads. Please post your pictures and data. Great to be able to learn from others. Saves gun powder and bullets :lol:

 

[hubcap]

If all else fails try a different powder before you give up. Sometimes that pays off. My .270 with the 150LRAB shot crappy with H4831 and shot great with IMR-4831. No other changes. Just a powder change did it.

 

[OU812]

I would not over look the AB. While not quite the BC of the LRAB but it's seems much easier to get accuracy and it's a bullet that will hold up at close range yet allow for long range shooting as well. Just my .02

 

[OFFSHORE]

Well guys, I give up on these LRAB bullets. I just can't make them shoot. I tried seating them as deep as .155". . . and the damn things looked like 120gr. flat base bullets sticking out of my brass! I even tried three different powders - Reloder22, H1000 and H4831sc, nothing to good to call home about. Anything above or below 2.695" to the ogive groups get better than an inch at 100 yards. My little Swede is no better. Is it because it is a bonded bullet. . .does the bonding process give the bullet a different ride down the barrel? I get real nice groups, bug holes even, out of BT's, CusComp's and A-max's, but these are all cup-n-core bullets. Anyhoo. . .I'm outta the LRAB business. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[gerry]

Some guns just don't like them for some reason, not sure why exactly........

 

[DrMike]

Just spent time with a gent at the range today who has given up on ABLR in his 7STW. He is an experienced hand loader. However, he just can make them work in his rifle. Two unopened boxes are going back to the LGS he said.

 

[muleman]

I had trouble with them in my 280AI but that rifle is hard pressed to put BTs or ABs into an inch at 100yds. My Creedmoor and 28Nosler shoot'em into an easy .5moa. I did start loading them with a VLD seater and also sorted them by length to ogive. Surprisingly I found quite a bit of variance within a box. Once sorted and loaded with the VLD seater everything came together. To me, they're worth the trouble. Having a long range bullet that expands reliably at distance combined with the toughness of a bonded bullet for up close impacts is hard to beat.

Scott

 

[kraky1]

I haven't had much luck with them either .... but I shoot pretty ordinary Factory rifles. Seems like the guys that are getting them to shoot have some pretty high quality Or well tuned guns. I've come to the conclusion and if I have a gun that will shoot them it's most certainly a keeper..lol.

 

[Wyo7200]

The more I shoot the .260 rem with 129's the more I think I'm experiencing the same issues listed above. Bummer since I just bought two boxes from midwayusa while on a clearance sale. I'm going to try some 140gr accubonds next.

 

[OU812]

Some rifles just don't care for a certain bullet or powder. I've had 2 338's that I could not get a 250 Partition to shoot to save my life. Might try the AccuBond, well constructed bullet with a good BC.

 

[30-338]

I had pretty good lucky with 150gr ABLR in 270 and 270Wby and both those rifles will shoot the Berger VLD. I worked up some loads but never hunted with them.

I remember back when we didn't have all that many choice and if something does work now it's not hard to find bullets that will work.

 

[OFFSHORE]

I had trouble with them in my 280AI but that rifle is hard pressed to put BTs or ABs into an inch at 100yds. My Creedmoor and 28Nosler shoot'em into an easy .5moa. I did start loading them with a VLD seater and also sorted them by length to ogive. Surprisingly I found quite a bit of variance within a box. Once sorted and loaded with the VLD seater everything came together. To me, they're worth the trouble. Having a long range bullet that expands reliably at distance combined with the toughness of a bonded bullet for up close impacts is hard to beat.

Scott

Scott,

Tell me more about the VLD seater. . .how does this effect accuracy. I've read in times past about people who switched to them (mostly Berger shooters), but not much info was of "why or how" it made their loads perform better, so I never put much thought into it. If this could be a magic solution to making these bullets shoot, it would be a cheaper fix than all this powder and lead I'm sending down range with no avail. Thanks in advance.

 

[DrMike]

With VLD bullets (such as Berger or ABLR), VLD seating stems ensure that runout is held to a minimum. Redding, for instance, provides a VLD seating stem as an after market item to address this issue.

http://redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/182-bullet-seating-micrometers

 

[jimbires]

to add to what Dr Mike has said , the vld seating stem is made to let the long bullet go in deeper so the stem is pushing on the bullets ogive . when using a regular seater stem some of these VLD bullets will bottom out in the stem , before the ogive makes contact , so it's actually seating by pushing on the bullet tip . Hornady also makes different seating stems .
I've never done it , but I think you should be able to just drill a regular seating stem to make it work on a VLD type bullet .

 

[Wyo7200]

I took my stock rcbs stem out to see if that was my problem, and it looks like the stem has enough space for the tip, according to the toothpick-bullet comparison measurement.