RANGE RESULTS: 250 Savage AI with Reloder 17

[bobnob]

Hello folks, thought I'd preempt my next range outing with the 250 AI...

Thanks to Scotty and scouring the online and meagre printed resources, I figured the H4895 and Varget I have been using with the 115-117g bullets are probably a little fast for optimum results.

Scotty's help reveals Reloder 17 - which I've not used before - is the best available powder with speeds of 3100+ fps possible with 115g bullets.

Before I get howled down, I don't intend to attempt to best the 25-06 or Fotis' 257 'Bee with my little 250. I just find the R17 data to be quite interesting and with the 25 inch barrel I am going to see if I can give 3000fps with the 117g Hornady a sincere nudge.

Any thoughts on R17 before I go about it? I have in fact no knowledge of double based powders, I've always used ADI or Winchester powders and the Alliant propellants are new to me.

 

[SJB358]

Hello folks, thought I'd preempt my next range outing with the 250 AI...

Thanks to Scotty and scouring the online and meagre printed resources, I figured the H4895 and Varget I have been using with the 115-117g bullets are probably a little fast for optimum results.

Scotty's help reveals Reloder 17 - which I've not used before - is the best available powder with speeds of 3100+ fps possible with 115g bullets.

Before I get howled down, I don't intend to attempt to best the 25-06 or Fotis' 257 'Bee with my little 250. I just find the R17 data to be quite interesting and with the 25 inch barrel I am going to see if I can give 3000fps with the 117g Hornady a sincere nudge.

Any thoughts on R17 before I go about it? I have in fact no knowledge of double based powders, I've always used ADI or Winchester powders and the Alliant propellants are new to me.

Bob, I forgot to mention the data could be off as far as the actual burn rate. A good idea, and this has worked for me, is to start at least 5 grains lower than listed and chrono them. Speed and PSI are all we can off using QL, so get a decent baseline before you start climbing too fast.

I made the mistake with my 338 and 35 Newton. I dropped back only a few grains from what should have been max and ended with MAX loads right outta the gate. Once I dropped back I was able to attain the speeds (or nearly so) that QL listed, but it actually required less powder than what QL said I would need.

Dewey and some others have been very successful changing the Burn Rate, but I have not messed with that feature in my program.

Good luck and look forward to seeing what you come up with. Scotty

 

[Dwh7271]

You should hit 3000 with it without too much problem.
I loaded some 110 ABs with RL17 in my 250 AI and hit right around that with no pressure indications at all. I already had a cloverleaf load with the 110s with RL15 but wanted to play around. Couldn't get the accuracy like the RL15 but it was ok. About an inch and a quarter or so. Speed was definitely there but couldn't get it tuned in.Worked with seating etc but no go.
On the QuickLoad, if you get chrono on a particular load, preferably a few chrono readings, barrel length, case capacity in H2O we can come up with a pretty fair run for you on a particular powder.

 

[JD338]

Bob,

Sounds like you can breath new life into an old classic.
Scotty helped me with my 257 Roberts and she is shooting 115 gr BT's at 3100 fps.
The case life is fine too.

Good luck with the 250 Savage.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

I should think you will get close (if not reach) 3000 fps with your load. Scotty is correct, however, in advising you to work up your load to ensure that you are safe.

 

[SJB358]

Scotty is correct, however, in advising you to work up your load to ensure that you are safe.

Write that down. Doesn't happen often... :lol:

 

[DrMike]

Scotty is correct, however, in advising you to work up your load to ensure that you are safe.

Write that down. Doesn't happen often... :lol:

The young Gyrene is reasonably astute at this hand loading business. It can be worth your while to listen to him.

 

[bobnob]

Thanks Guys.

I have started with 40g of R17 which is the same charge weight I was using of Varget to get 2870fps with the 117g Hornady. QL says the same charge of R17 should generate about the same speed at only 45000psi. I've loaded three of each and laddering upwards.

I might even start a little lower than that and work up and beyond 40g bearing in mind the collective wisdom of our brains trust.... Maybe 38g?

 

[SJB358]

You might be fine there, I don't have the data in front of me but as long as your about 4-5 grains below the max you should be fine. Getting the initial speeds will be your guide.

 

[DrMike]

Thirty-eight grains would be about ten percent below maximum. Forty grains would be nearer to a five percent reduction. That would still give a margin of safety for working up your load.

 

[bobnob]

Ok good to go then. As soon as the fog lifts it'll be chronies and paper at 4 and 125 yards respectively.

Incidentally I'll also be doing some wet newspaper testing 117g Interlock vs 115g Cor Lokt Ultra Bonded vs 85g NBT. (Couldn't obtain any of the Accubonds :| )

 

[bobnob]

Well the results from the load testing are in and fairly encouraging....

I laddered up with R17 from 40g to 44.5g with the 117g Hornady BTSP Interlock. While the speeds didn't necessarily directly reflect the QL data they were close and were pretty much what I expected following earlier tests with Varget and H4895.

First two groups pictured below; 40g on the left and 41.5g on the right. Ave speeds were 2676fps and 2793fps. The right hand group certainly featured a pulled shot (the low one) as one of the kids called out as I pulled the trigger....

Group sizes are 1.25" and 2.5" (range 125y so 1 and 2 moa respectively).


Next two groups pictured below, bottom left at 43g and bottom right 44.5g. Ave speeds 2927 and 3044fps. Bear in mind these two groups are overlayed over the above groups, but the groups came in at 1.3" and 0.8"...

Fairly encouraging, a 117g Interlock BTSP at 3040fps and 0.65moa... But while QL says this load is mild, I feel I'd like to back it off a bit. Today's temp was 5 degrees centigrade and at times I hunt in 40+ so something in the high 2900s might be the goal, if I can get the accuracy.

 

[SJB358]

Wow... Looks great Bob.

Load and shoot the same case a few times. If the pockets are staying tight then I wouldn't mess with anything. RL17 works very well in that case. Your speeds are better than most 117/120 25-06 factory ammo.

Great stuff buddy! Looks like it came together fairly quickly too as the charges increased.

 

[Dwh7271]

I know I keep harping on this but if you have any RL15, work up to around 38 gr w a 110 AB (if you can find any) it will hit pretty close to the speed you want. Bet the accuracy will make you real happy also.

Those loads show a lot of promise by the way. Nice to see. Isn't that a fun cartridge to mess with?

 

[muleman]

I've been using a lot more Alliant powders lately due to my using Q/L. I've used RL19 for years in the 338win mag and some RL22 in the 280AI. There's not a lot of data out there especially for the newer powders. Q/L changed that for me. On most every cartridge I shoot either RL26 or 17 is at the top of the list in Q/L. I bought several pounds of each and am working loads up in many of my rifles. 26 and 17 are both supposedly temp. insensitive and are giving me 100-150 FPS more in guns with established loads. I just picked up some .323 220gr sierras for the 325WSM and am going to try 17 in at that one. The other combos in the works are the 6-284 with 70gr BTs and 90gr NABs. 257R AI with 85gr BTs and 110gr NABs. 6.5 Creedmoor with 142gr ABLRs. Redoing 280AI loads with the 150gr ABLRs and the 3.6" 28 Nosler(using RL33 to start with the 175gr ABLRs).

Scott

 

[bobnob]

DWH,

I don't usually use Alliant powders and to that end R15 is not generally on my bench. They are very expensive here, more than the ADI powders - which by the way cost a lot more to buy here than they do in the U.S.!

Sounds like it's the business though in these sort of applications. Buying the R17 in a 5lb jug kept the price down a bit so maybe a five-pounder of R15 might be in the future.



I've loaded up some more of the Interlocks (this time at an arbitrarily arrived at 43.8g :? ) with the R17 to test today for accuracy and speed. I'll shoot 3 or 4 groups and see what it tells me.

Apart from the blown group above, accuracy for the other groups averaged 0.9 moa which is looking pretty good for an average shot like me.

 

[SJB358]

It would be interesting to see how well you can make 17 work Bob. Huge fan of 15 as well for cartridges in that burn rate, as Dewey mentioned, it's hard to top.

 

[Dwh7271]

Shoot Bob, wasnt dissing your RL17 load at all. That's good shooting and a sweet load.

 

[bobnob]

Hah no probs.

Must admit down here we are quite parochial about our powders and we thank our lucky stars to have the ADI products. But it can cause us to not explore the other good options.

I am really keen to see what this R17 can do in my 270 and 30-06 too now.... I might even give it a run in the LR 308 with some heavies. Probably a tad slow for that but maybe with a 208 Amax or 210 ABLR....

 

[JD338]

Looking good Bob.

JD338