Range time before the snow hit

[257 Ackley]

We were supposed to get a few inches of snow Sunday (12/9), so I figured it might be my last chance to get some load work done with the 6.5X47 before "real" winter got to Minnesota. Primers tested were CCI BR4 and CCI 450M along with the other components listed for each target. I didn't take the chronograph with me yesterday, but have a pretty good idea where velocities are based on earlier range sessions. Early on I thought the rifle had a preference for lighter bullets, but yesterday told me something totally different. Most loads tested were only 3 shots except the last load which was 5. There is still a little room to tighten up, but I am getting close.

The rifle I was shooting:

5 shot group with Berger 140 Hunting VLD and H414 :shock: This was supposed to just be a goof-off load

 

[DrMike]

Good stuff, Joel. That is poking 'em in the slot.

 

[257 Ackley]

Mike -
Can you run QL for me with the 139 Scenar and 140 Berger to see what shows up? There is limited data for the Scenar's especially. The H414 load is out of the new Berger manual and really surprised me. For an old dirty ball powder it did pretty well in 31 F temperatures.

 

[DrMike]

I note that H414 (and W760) yield the highest velocities.

Cartridge : 6.5 x 47 Lapua
Bullet : .264, 139, Lapua Scenar GB458 6018 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 42.746 grain H2O = 2.775 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

4 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 760 97.4 40.6 2.63 2782 99.0 60000 9456 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 97.4 40.6 2.63 2782 99.0 60000 9456 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 99.7 40.2 2.60 2772 99.9 60000 9220 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 94.5 38.0 2.47 2722 99.9 60000 8738 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 95.1 37.9 2.45 2720 100.0 60000 8412 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 97.2 37.9 2.46 2714 100.0 60000 8335 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 97.2 37.5 2.43 2708 100.0 60000 8344 1.225 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 100.0 40.7 2.64 2704 98.9 53912 9286 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 100.0 39.0 2.53 2703 99.8 54969 8974 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.0 39.0 2.53 2702 99.8 54916 8971 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 100.0 40.7 2.64 2700 96.7 56024 9227 1.232 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 99.2 38.4 2.49 2696 98.5 60000 8746 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 96.1 38.4 2.49 2695 98.5 60000 8740 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 100.0 38.5 2.50 2687 99.5 58899 8600 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 90.1 36.6 2.37 2685 100.0 60000 7869 1.235 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 90.1 36.6 2.37 2685 100.0 60000 7869 1.235 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 99.1 36.5 2.36 2681 100.0 60000 7859 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 100.0 39.0 2.53 2674 98.6 56464 8830 1.254 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 100.0 40.0 2.59 2662 98.0 54540 8915 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 100.0 39.2 2.54 2660 100.0 49494 8644 1.301
Accurate 2495 92.1 34.3 2.22 2653 100.0 60000 7540 1.261 ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge : 6.5 x 47 Lapua
Bullet : .264, 140, Berger BTHP G7 #26406
Useable Case Capaci: 42.684 grain H2O = 2.771 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H414

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 32.64 2245 1566 31813 7641 91.2 1.593
-18.0 80 33.46 2300 1644 33973 7873 92.4 1.552
-16.0 82 34.27 2355 1724 36280 8096 93.5 1.512
-14.0 84 35.09 2410 1805 38749 8310 94.5 1.467
-12.0 86 35.90 2465 1889 41391 8514 95.4 1.423
-10.0 88 36.72 2520 1974 44220 8707 96.2 1.381
-08.0 90 37.54 2575 2061 47250 8888 97.0 1.340
-06.0 92 38.35 2629 2149 50471 9057 97.7 1.301
-04.0 94 39.17 2684 2239 53899 9213 98.3 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 96 39.98 2738 2330 57568 9355 98.8 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 40.80 2792 2423 61497 9482 99.2 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 100 41.62 2846 2518 65710 9593 99.5 1.158 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 42.43 2899 2613 70231 9689 99.8 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 104 43.25 2953 2710 75089 9767 99.9 1.093 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 106 44.06 3006 2808 80316 9828 100.0 1.063 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 108 44.88 3058 2907 85949 9876 100.0 1.033 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 40.80 2909 2630 73857 9129 100.0 1.107 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 40.80 2627 2146 49592 9368 94.3 1.303

Cartridge : 6.5 x 47 Lapua
Bullet : .264, 140, Berger BTHP G7 #26406
Useable Case Capaci: 42.684 grain H2O = 2.771 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

6 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 760 97.3 40.5 2.62 2772 99.1 60000 9436 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 97.3 40.5 2.62 2772 99.1 60000 9436 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 99.6 40.0 2.59 2761 100.0 60000 9198 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 94.4 37.9 2.46 2712 99.9 60000 8717 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 94.9 37.8 2.45 2710 100.0 60000 8390 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 97.1 37.8 2.45 2704 100.0 60000 8313 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 100.0 40.6 2.63 2698 98.9 54167 9277 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 97.0 37.4 2.42 2698 100.0 60000 8322 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 100.0 38.9 2.52 2697 99.8 55229 8960 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.0 38.9 2.52 2696 99.8 55176 8956 1.254 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 100.0 40.6 2.63 2695 96.9 56276 9225 1.234 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 99.1 38.3 2.48 2686 98.5 60000 8731 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 96.0 38.3 2.48 2686 98.5 60000 8724 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 100.0 38.5 2.49 2680 99.6 59140 8589 1.234 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 98.9 36.4 2.36 2671 100.0 60000 7838 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 100.0 38.9 2.52 2668 98.7 56707 8821 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 100.0 39.9 2.59 2657 98.1 54790 8909 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 100.0 39.1 2.54 2654 100.0 49757 8625 1.302
Accurate 2495 91.9 34.2 2.22 2643 100.0 60000 7519 1.266 ! Near Maximum !

The two bullets appear to be so close that they are almost indistinguishable.

 

[JD338]

Nice shooting Joel.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Very nice Joel! That is a shooter. Man, that rifle is NICE too buddy.

Seem's like H414 / W760 is a sleeper in the 6.5x47.. Seems like some old powders are really good in the new cartridges!

 

[Polaris]

Have you tried IMR 4350 yet? Really works nice in my Swede with 140 gr BTHP Noslers. Great shooting though.

That H414 is a surprising powder in a lot of cartridges I've loaded. Got my best accuracy in .270 130 gr, .280 145gr and 30-06 165 grain hunting loads with that powder. If I could get it to shoot worth a darn in my 7.62X54r "sniper" load I would have converted all my "slow powder" loading to that powder instead of IMR 4350. Trying to thin the powder herd in the ammo dump after I made a dumb, near disasterous mix up last summer.

 

[cloverleaf]

Um, yup....no more range time w/o a snow mobile. CL

 

[257 Ackley]

That H414 is a surprising powder in a lot of cartridges I've loaded.

H414 has surprised me in a few calibers as well. It is a terrific load for the 130 grain AB in the .260 and it gave me the best velocity and groups for the 338-06 with the 225 grain deep curls. The burn rate is right around IMR 4350 and N140/540 powders. I'm kinda bumming that the best groups I shot were with N540 though...that powder is a lot more expensive than the others tested :x .

Thanks for the QL data Mike!! I might have a little more wiggle room with the heavy bullets yet. I just got done loading 5 cartridges of each of the best groups to retest next time out. We got over 12 inches of snow today, so I'm not sure when I will get back to the range. Time for a sauna so I can make some snow angles :lol: .

 

[257 Ackley]

Kinda surprising that N540 doesn't show up for either bullet in QL. The Berger loading manual doesn't show loads using N550 (that I recall) and it was not a top powder listed by Vihytivori for the 139 Scenar.

 

[SJB358]

It shows up Joel, just pretty far down. Might be a good one, it is hard to tell till you put steel on target though.

H414 and W760 are looking pretty good though. That is for sure.

Cartridge : 6.5 x 47 Lapua
Bullet : .264, 139, Lapua Scenar GB458 6018
Useable Case Capaci: 42.746 grain H2O = 2.775 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

124 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 760 98.4 41.0 2.66 2855 99.5 62000 8646 1.242 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 98.4 41.0 2.66 2855 99.5 62000 8646 1.242 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 95.9 39.6 2.57 2850 100.0 62000 8135 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 100.0 40.3 2.61 2824 100.0 60517 8374 1.265 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 96.8 39.4 2.55 2820 100.0 62000 7962 1.248 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 96.9 39.4 2.56 2819 100.0 62000 7951 1.248 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 93.4 36.8 2.38 2805 100.0 62000 7861 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 94.2 37.1 2.40 2797 100.0 62000 7832 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 94.2 37.1 2.40 2797 100.0 62000 7832 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 94.2 37.1 2.40 2797 100.0 62000 7832 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 94.6 37.3 2.42 2795 100.0 62000 7773 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 95.5 38.4 2.49 2792 100.0 62000 7966 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 96.1 38.3 2.48 2787 100.0 62000 7658 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 92.1 38.6 2.50 2783 100.0 62000 7876 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 97.4 38.7 2.51 2781 99.6 62000 7919 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 98.2 38.3 2.48 2781 100.0 62000 7581 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 96.1 37.3 2.41 2778 100.0 62000 7544 1.246 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 90.8 35.8 2.32 2776 100.0 62000 7581 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 91.2 35.9 2.33 2776 100.0 62000 7627 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 98.2 37.9 2.45 2775 100.0 62000 7601 1.268 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 91.9 37.4 2.42 2771 100.0 62000 7583 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 97.2 38.8 2.52 2767 99.0 62000 8019 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 90.1 38.1 2.47 2762 100.0 62000 7671 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 99.1 38.8 2.51 2760 99.8 62000 7721 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 96.9 36.9 2.39 2760 100.0 62000 7572 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 96.5 36.9 2.39 2760 100.0 62000 7572 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 100.0 38.7 2.51 2760 99.0 61410 8008 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 90.2 38.2 2.48 2755 100.0 62000 7374 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 100.0 40.7 2.64 2751 99.2 53913 8456 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 97.4 36.3 2.35 2750 100.0 62000 7396 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 91.1 37.0 2.40 2749 100.0 62000 7163 1.278 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 91.1 37.0 2.40 2749 100.0 62000 7163 1.278 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 100.0 39.0 2.53 2748 99.9 54969 8146 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.0 39.0 2.53 2747 99.9 54916 8143 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 100.0 40.7 2.64 2747 97.3 56024 8426 1.293 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 95.2 36.5 2.36 2747 100.0 62000 7284 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 93.6 34.5 2.23 2747 100.0 62000 6995 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 100.0 36.8 2.39 2741 100.0 61680 7149 1.299 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 93.9 37.4 2.42 2731 100.0 62000 7185 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 100.0 38.5 2.50 2730 99.7 58899 7815 1.294 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 94.0 35.7 2.31 2728 100.0 62000 7154 1.277 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 91.6 35.5 2.30 2725 100.0 62000 7017 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 100.0 39.0 2.53 2719 99.0 56464 8039 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 91.0 35.6 2.31 2717 100.0 62000 7086 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 98.2 39.9 2.59 2716 98.8 62000 7541 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 93.1 34.7 2.25 2715 100.0 62000 6871 1.305 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 91.7 35.1 2.28 2710 100.0 62000 7068 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 100.0 40.0 2.59 2708 98.4 54541 8128 1.323 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 100.0 39.2 2.54 2705 100.0 49494 7826 1.363
Rottweil R901 90.2 33.8 2.19 2702 100.0 62000 6870 1.288 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 91.1 35.5 2.30 2698 100.0 62000 6959 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 93.7 36.2 2.35 2698 100.0 62000 6749 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 100.0 39.2 2.54 2695 98.2 55231 7923 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 99.6 35.6 2.31 2688 100.0 62000 6564 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 100.0 39.4 2.55 2659 96.1 50405 8190 1.354
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 100.0 39.4 2.55 2659 96.1 50405 8190 1.354
Vihtavuori N150 100.0 37.2 2.41 2657 100.0 55841 7036 1.326 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 91.7 35.4 2.29 2657 100.0 62000 6496 1.285 ! Near Maximum !

 

[257 Ackley]

Thanks Scott...the load listed as near max with N540, is the load I was using when the one ragged hole was shot Saturday. There were no pressure signs on the brass or primers. I want to try H414 with the Scenars and see if they do the same thing the Bergers did. Man would I be happy if the old cheap ball powder worked in stead of N540. It looks like there is about another 100FPS with near max loads with H414 as well.

 

[DrMike]

In the final analysis, we all will take the extra 100 fps if the accuracy is there. Having said that, I do use a lot of Vihta Vuori powders. I like them; they are consistent and reasonably efficient.

 

[FOTIS]

That is some nice shooting Joel.

 

[257 Ackley]

One of the lessons I learned last summer about mid to long range shooting was that a bullet/powder combination that shoots well at 100 yards doesn't always end up being the best load at 600-1000 yards. Doing this load work tells me which are the best possibilities and than I need to get to a range where they can be streached out to see what happens. Getting them over a chronograph for velocity gives me a chance to plug the number into a ballistics program so the drop charts can be made before the longer distances are tried. I don't want to be shooting over any berms at 600 yards and have pi$$ed off neighbors. :roll: I envy you guys that can go out to a field or clearing and shoot without worrying about that stuff.

 

[Desert Fox]

Joel, Have you tried H4350 at all?

 

[SJB358]

envy you guys that can go out to a field or clearing and shoot without worrying about that stuff.

I am with you buddy! I wished I had a longer range closer and easier to get to.

 

[257 Ackley]

Joel, Have you tried H4350 at all?

Hey DF - It was the first powder that I tried based on what you and USMC89 were using with the 130 Bergers. I have one load that has shown some promise with that combo, but my barrel seems to prefer other powders and bullets. The barrel should be getting pretty close to being broken in now that there is about 150 rounds down the pipe. I have some final loads to test if we ever get another 30 degree day before the end of the year. I have to check this load with the 140 Bergers and H414 again just to see if that was a fluke. I used a load right out of the manual that shot so well.

I turned all the necks last night and than trimmed to 1.845". The primer choices are down to CCI BR4 or 450M. I still need to buy equipment to check run-out.

Question for you; have you seen a bullet/powder combo in this caliber that didn't shoot that greatest group at 100, but gave you consistant 10 ring groups at 600 or 1000?

 

[Desert Fox]

I've only tried 3 powder. 4350 in both Hodgdon and IMR and Reloader 17. All three shoot tight at 100 yards but only used H4350 for competition. I think any powder suitable for 6.5-47 will work on my rifle.

Here's 5 shot @ 110 yards with IMR 4350.

I believed this with Reloader 17

And the H4350

 

[DrMike]

Rommel,

You're going to make me change my mind and build a 6.5X47. Quite the enviable set of targets. You, sir, are to be congratulated.