Setting the Resizing Die Correctly

[Stevesdl]

After receiving some comments on my reloaded ammo, I have a feeling I am not properly setting up my RCBS resizing die correctly.

I have read the instructions that came with the set, but have the strange feeling there is a lot more to it than what is stated. Does anyone have any suggestions on a tutorial or video that might list explicitly how to perform the resizing die setup in ones RCBS press?

Thanks
Steve

 

[1Shot]

If you want to full length size a case this is how to set up the die. Place the shell holder into the press ram. Raise the ram to the top. Screw the die in the top of the press and down until it touches the shell holder. Then screw the locking nut on the die down to lock the die in place and tighten the screw in the locking nut to keep your setting. If you are using Lee dies they have no locking screw. The locking nut has an o-ring gasket to hold it in place.

One other note. Make sure your de-capping rod/pin assembly is adjusted correctly. The de-capping pin should stick out the bottom of the die just enough to allow the primer to be pushed out of a case. The expander ball should not hit the bottom of the case.

 

[Stevesdl]

Thanks 1Shot.

Lets just say my cases are not sized correctly.
Am I correct in discernment that I can just follow the instructions, run them through the resize and my cases should now be correctly resized? (I will only use good brass)

Thanks
Steve

 

[big rifle man]

Steve, Oneshot is correct on the instructions but I would like to add two other small items that will help. First, when you bring the ram up and screw the die down till it touches the top of the ram I would would back off on the ram and screw the die in a short distance more and bring the ram back up. At this point screw your lock ring down. This in effect squares the die with the shellholder. After sizing I would check OAL of the case and trim just enough off to square the case mouth. Your set from that point.

 

[nodak7mm]

This is the method I use & I thought I would give you another method to properly set your die to your rifles chamber, provided your cases have expanded sufficiently:

1. Set your rifle up on the bench, remove the firing pin assy from your bolt. Place your bolt in the rifle & note how effortlessly the bolt falls/engages the lugs? Now chamber an empty fired case, feel the resistance?

2. With your sizing die in the press, set it appx 0.150 from touching the shell holder, size a case, chamber it and you should still feel resistance. Screw it down incremently increments of 1/4 turns and chambering until no resistance is felt & the bolt flops down by its weight alone. At the point, back the die "out" 1/8" of a turn, chamber case for feel. Resistance, slight resistance, no resistance? I aim to adjust the die to the point it just sizes the case enough to where the bolt lugs hopefully have just a "tish" (0.001-.002) of clearance and the bolt closes effortlessly. (Lock that die ring down)

Then adjust your decapping pin to just pop the primer out.

This method will greatly increase the life of your brass by not overworking/oversizing the brass.

Key points here:

You want to ensure your using enough sizing lubricant and bolt grease on the bolt lugs when doing the above die set up.

The above method works for me, it may not work for you and your situation. This method is intended to work for a known batch of brass & a SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL RIFLE chamber. (I segregate & dedicate brass to a specific Bolt action rifle). This system is a waste of time if your reloading for an autoloader or buddy's/unknown rifles.

After intial full length sizing of new brass, I then use a universal decapping die to deprime and then a bushing neck die in combo with a neck turning mandrel when needed to uniform the necks. I will only full length size at the point of where that batch of brass starts take effort to chamber.

Just more food for thought..

Rod

 

[rick smith]

If you are shooting belted mags, you do not want to use the instructions that come with the dies. That normally guarantees case head seperation in a few firings. Touching the shellholder or going just beyond touching will push the shoulder back too far and the brass will stretch beyond it's limits causing case head deperation just above the belt. If you have the Stoney Point headspace tool or another tool for measuring to the datum line from the base of the case then setting the dies is much easier. If you don't have the tool, use a fired pistol case such as a 40 S&W and place the open end over the neck of your fired rifle case and measure from the case base to the base of the pistol case. Make sure the pistol case stays straight on the blade of your calipers. Know some loaders that use a small socket in place of the pistol case.
Measure several of your fired cases, they all should be within 0.001". Now measure a new unfired case. Size a couple of your cases and measure them. The sized cases should measure 0.001-0.002" less than the fired cases. Any more than that is over working your brass.Rick.

 

[boomer68]

If you are shooting belted mags, you do not want to use the instructions that come with the dies. That normally guarantees case head seperation in a few firings. Touching the shellholder or going just beyond touching will push the shoulder back too far and the brass will stretch beyond it's limits causing case head deperation just above the belt. If you have the Stoney Point headspace tool or another tool for measuring to the datum line from the base of the case then setting the dies is much easier. If you don't have the tool, use a fired pistol case such as a 40 S&W and place the open end over the neck of your fired rifle case and measure from the case base to the base of the pistol case. Make sure the pistol case stays straight on the blade of your calipers. Know some loaders that use a small socket in place of the pistol case.
Measure several of your fired cases, they all should be within 0.001". Now measure a new unfired case. Size a couple of your cases and measure them. The sized cases should measure 0.001-0.002" less than the fired cases. Any more than that is over working your brass.Rick.

So, that would almost be like partial full length sizing?

 

[rick smith]

That is PFL and I don't set my FL die to PFL until the cases get snug to bolt closure, I neck size until then. I use the same procedure on non-belted cases but from a previous post Steve had pictures of his belted brass that had case head seperation.Rick.

 

[FOTIS]

Good advise above....

 

[Stevesdl]

UMM... looking for the "confused smiley"

Here we go :?

Okay so for belted magnum reloading such as 338 Win Mag, the best practice is to resize neck only correct?

I am confused since I thought the only way one could use the deprimer rod inside the resizer is to resize and deprime together and the two are not mutually exclusive of one another?

I see Rick's suggestion but not sure how this has me restting the resizer in the press - or am I just dumb?

Thanks
Steve

 

[SJB358]

Steve, I tend to go with Rod's method of sizing.

This is the method I use & I thought I would give you another method to properly set your die to your rifles chamber, provided your cases have expanded sufficiently:

1. Set your rifle up on the bench, remove the firing pin assy from your bolt. Place your bolt in the rifle & note how effortlessly the bolt falls/engages the lugs? Now chamber an empty fired case, feel the resistance?

2. With your sizing die in the press, set it appx 0.150 from touching the shell holder, size a case, chamber it and you should still feel resistance. Screw it down incremently increments of 1/4 turns and chambering until no resistance is felt & the bolt flops down by its weight alone. At the point, back the die "out" 1/8" of a turn, chamber case for feel. Resistance, slight resistance, no resistance? I aim to adjust the die to the point it just sizes the case enough to where the bolt lugs hopefully have just a "tish" (0.001-.002) of clearance and the bolt closes effortlessly. (Lock that die ring down)

Then adjust your decapping pin to just pop the primer out.

This method will greatly increase the life of your brass by not overworking/oversizing the brass.

My press is a little different as I use a Forster CoAx, but it is exactly the same principal. I tend to err on the side of full length sizing for my hunting rifles and Rod's method usually produces the best amount of accuracy and functionality for me. Again, you are not hurting anything, screwing the resizing die down and touching the shell holder. You seem to have a tighter chamber, so that is something to think about. You are doing good, you are getting good speed and accuracy. Your case life sounds good too. Scotty

 

[nodak7mm]

Steve,

Seveal of the die manufacturers make that they call a universal decapping die and all it really is, is a die that has a decapping pin in it. It does not size any of the case whatsoever. And I use the same die to decap my 9mm brass as my 7mm RM.

I gotten in the habit of decapping all my cases first, then tumbling to clean them before I run them thru a sizing die. I do not like to take the chance of dirty brass scratching my die(s) interior (again)...

As I said in an earlier post, I remove the decapping pin/expander ball assy from my dies and use a neck turning mandel & neck bushings to size the necks. I only full length size when needed. An entire thread could be dedicated to the benifits/pros/cons to full length sizing vs neck sizing only. They both have their place and purpose.

I believe that if you set up the die as like I described, it will be the best for your brass. I tend to think that the die manufacturers set-up instructions are written to ensure all possible chamber configuration can be met (min/max saami specs) to insure trouble free chambering. You oversizing (as per the instructions) the brass will indirectly wear out faster, causing you to spend more money on components... I do know that my method really helps brass life in my belted cases.

Rod

 

[boomer68]

As I said in an earlier post, I remove the decapping pin/expander ball assy from my dies and use a neck turning mandel & neck bushings to size the necks. I only full length size when needed. An entire thread could be dedicated to the benifits/pros/cons to full length sizing vs neck sizing only. They both have their place and purpose.

Rod

Rod,

What dies do you use and what neck turning mandrel?

Ian

 

[nodak7mm]

Ian,

I favor using Redding bushing dies. I use the Lee universal decapping die. And a Sinclair's expander/neck turning mandrel die body with the appropriate caliber mandrel...

Rod

 

[rick smith]

Stevesdl, have you measured any of your cases as I described? Use Rod's method if you can remove the firing pin and spring. You don't have to neck size until the case gets snug to closure but it does work the brass less than PFL or FL the case each time you load. By measuring to the datum line, I don't have to try the brass in my rifle. I know the headspace will be correct for that rifle. Don't make this procedure hard. You are having casehead seperations so your dies do need to be readjusted. Use Rod's method, do it by datum line measurement or use both methods.Rick.

 

[Stevesdl]

Hi Team!

Sorry for so long before a response. My regular job has kept me beyond busy and the wife was in the hospital for 2 days as well so no real time to test until this weekend - but I have taken into consideration everyone's comments, a few phone calls and an awful lot of research. Here is what I have discerned and my end result to correct my reloading.

1. Rick Smith stated "If you are shooting belted mags, you do not want to use the instructions that come with the dies. That normally guarantees case head separation in a few firings. Touching the shellholder or going just beyond touching will push the shoulder back too far and the brass will stretch beyond it's limits causing case head deperation just above the belt."

1 billion percent correct. The comparison difference with my fireformed brass to a resized brass according to the die manufacuter's instructions was actually setting my shoulder back between .009 to .013. I was having to trim my cases after every fire. My case length would be approx. 2.490 and after every firing, my case length would be greater than 2.501.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind the following:
1. Brass headspace very incorrect (Tried both ways - ram all the way up, resizer die touching: ram all the way up, resizer die touching and then backed off approx 1/8 to 1/4 turn)
2. Brass over-worked (constant stretching when fired and being pushed back excessively everytime it was being resized.

Rod actually gave me a call and walked me through a couple of testings but I just could not feel the difference but I sure did appreciate the 1 on 1 support! I did not get to Rick's testing using the 40 S&W case. I have gleaned valuable information from every single post and PM. Scotty also sent me an email with some very good info, some of which I have incorporated into my reloading regime. I am going to be honest, I knew very very little about headspace and OAL prior to me starting to realize I had a problem.

Okay so what was my final resolve?
When I first started looking at what to purchase for my reloading tools for the 338 Win Mag, this site was also a very big factor on what to purchase. I had also found quite a bit of information regarding Larry Willis with Innovative Technologies. I decided to return to his site and investigate a few of his products on both reliability, useability and performance. I would not have known what questions to ask in the beginning of my reloading, but now after a "little" bit of experience and quite a lot of hours of research on headspace and OAL (and I mean alot of them), I could ask at least a few intelligent questions to get a better understanding of his products.

At the end of my research and actually contacting Larry and speaking directly with him, not only about his products but about headspace and OAL, I decided to purchase two of his products. The Digital Headspace Gauge and the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die. (I returned the Hornady O.A.L Gauge and associated items but went back and re-purchased the modified case for use with Larry's products)

I do know there are other more inexpensive products and ingenius ways to "gauge" headspace and OAL but I am not too sure there is any product that will perform these exact measurements for your specific rifle with the precision and ease like these products perform. Also to correct and provide longer brass life, the Belted Magnum Collect Resing Die is already in use to benefit my new Nosler Custom Brass that has been fired twice. I honestly believe that the products will pay for themselves within the first 6-8 reload cycles. These two products are rocket science, repeatedly exacting and just too easy.

I have corrected my headspace and OAL concerns and issues. (I believe the Nosler Custom Brass is a plus too)
Most incredibly important as well, I have finally discerned what load I will finish my sight-ins for this hunting season.
With the new adjustments and brass, for 100 yd groups (have not sighted-in 200 yard yet), I shot a less than 1" group with 2 shots literally overlapping each other and a 3/4" group with 2 almost in the same hole and all bullseyed groups. (I have always heard some stating 2 shots in the same hole, but I guess you just got to experience it to really believe it can happen with a high powered rifle at 100 yards. It was my first time ever.)

Thanks everyone
Will post new targets with loads next weekend for 100 and 200 sight-ins.

Stevesdl

 

[rick smith]

Glad you got the dies set correctly, now you ned to get in the field and try those loads on some game.Rick.

 

[SJB358]

Steve, that is great you got sorted out with equipment that works for you. That Belted Magnum Collet sizing die looks pretty good. I might have to give it a look down the road. Glad you are shooting well and everything is working out. What is your final load and specs. Scotty