Supplies

[mladucer]

This post about my frustrations with people hording all the reloading supplies. First off I’ll tell you about my self. I am a 22 year old college student from Dickinson, ND, and I love to reload. Kind of a hobby I have taken up in last year or so, its fun and I enjoy all the variables to reloading and shooting.
First off I can’t just walk into a gun shop or a major store like Scheels or Gander Mt. and pick up bricks of primers or multiple pounds of powder at one time just a little to spendy for me being in college. I like to buy what I need at the time and reload for that gun and event. I just drives me nuts to see guys freaking out about this whole “Obama” thing, and buying 10,000 primers at a time and 100 pounds of powder (this actually happened). He can’t take our guns away he can drive prices up a bit on supplies but that’s no reason to go and buy supplies in bulk to were nobody else can enjoy this fine sport of reloading. It’s the guys that do all this hording that are driving up the prices, why exactly horde the stuff makes no sence to me unless you reload for people and sell the product, but I don’t think that’s legal is it?
I got into reloading because it was cheaper to reload for my guns then it was to go out and buy all the ammo. But now it’s easier to spend that extra 10 dollars for a box of ammo, then it is to find large rifle primers or a pound of my favorite powder. Sorry for me complaining so much I just don’t see the point in all of this outrageous behavior at the stores. I am actually all for the limits they are starting in some of the major stores in Bismarck. A limit of 200 primers a day and 2 pounds of powder this makes it fair for everyone.
This is were I will end this post just stating my frustrations and im sure ill stir up some of the conspiracy theorists that will tell me how there is some mandate against ammo and guns and that all the guns will get taken away.

Mike Laducer

 

[DrMike]

Mike,

Fear and uncertainty are powerful motivators to illogical behaviour. While the restrictions and lack of supply is frustrating, and no doubt doubly so for someone in your situation, there is sufficient underlying justification for concern that people will purchase enough material to supply them for a period of time. Some of those posting on the forum have lived through times when their hobby was threatened by well-meaning individuals who occupied government office. Those experiences are not easily dismissed when similar uncertainties are again presented by a change in administration and/or philosophies in governmental personnel. Be gentle toward some of the older ones who simply want to ensure that they have opportunity to keep shooting.

In my own case, because I load for a large number of cartridges, and because I often load in large volumes, I require a fair selection of powders and what some would consider to be an excessive number of primers. I will certainly keep on hand all that the law and common sense dictate I can possess because I go through a fair amount of both powder and primers on a weekly basis. I can assume you that almost all of my rather sizable inventory is consumed on an annual basis necessitating resupply. I suspect that many people are in a similar situation.

For whatever it is worth, I anticipate that supply will begin to reach the stores again soon. However, because of continued demand, I don't know that the cost of materials will be significantly reduced. Some of us can remember when powder was less than 1/2 of what it is now, and when primers were perhaps 1/3 of current prices, and it doesn't seem that long ago!

 

[JD338]

mladucer

I can't agree with you more. When the demand goes away, the prices will come down. There are still some reasonable prices out there, just have to look for them.

JD338

 

[mladucer]

I can understand your need for supplies Dr Mike and the amount of shooting you do its required. I bugs me that you got guys that will buy out all of the powder or even primers then turn around and sell them for 4 times the price. Or they will go out and buy all of these materials just becuase somone told them there is a federal mandate stating there will be a maditory drop in prodution. If you dont need it there is no need to buy outragous amounts of primers or powder.

 

[Powerstroke]

mladucer,

Don't let this get you down about handloading and or the sport. You have two issues going on right now to include one of them being the guys buying the product up and trying to turn it around and make a buck or two..... I to have some issues with that.

A few more years down the road you'll wonder just where in the heck you ended up with all the reloading supplies like some of the seasoned ones have.

 

[DrMike]

Mike,

You have a good point, and I agree that it is unfair for people to profit during times of uncertainty. However, those people in the end will only hurt themselves. Serious hand loaders will take note of them and avoid them like the plague. When they are known, they seldom receive much help, and all of us need help from time-to-time.

 

[Divernhunter]

First of all if you think the group in DC cannot take your guns then you must live under a rock and am the typicalfoolish college student I use to run into when I was in college. Please note not all students are fools but some are just as noncollege people are.

Second I feel for you because I could not afford the supplies in the amounts I buy now or should I say several years ago. I have not needed to buy for several years as I stocked up before the supply dropped and the prices went thru the roof.

I do know that many people are hording. BUT also there are so many getting into reloading for many different reasons. Lack of loaded ammo/prices of ammo/fear of future gov intervention/etc that you cannot find dies/presses/ kits etc as well as primer/powder/bullets.

I will not even drive to town for 200 primers or 2 lbs of powder. For quite a few years I buy primers in batches of 20,000-25,000. I always buy powder in the large jugs(usually 8 lbs) and then usually 4 to 16 jugs at a time. Bullets sometimes only a few boxes to test but stuff I use I buy 700-1500+ of each bullet I want at a time. Brass is always 500-1000+ of each cartridge at a time.
Fortunatly I was able to stock up several years ago. It was one of the few smart thing I have done. So I do not NEED much except for supplies for new cartridges I have started to shoot or plan to shoot soon. I have been lucky enough to run into a few people who gave or sold me stuff real cheap so I took them up on those deals. I got 7.62X54R ammo for $.10/round and 18 cartons of primers for $10/carton. He also had a heck of a deal on 123gr bullets for the 7.62X39 but I had to pass due to money. Another friend brought me a new 8lb jug of IMR4895 and 6 open 1lb cand of other powders for free. I have many thousands of bullets(mostly nosler BT and PAR for hunting) stored as well as the same in loaded and surplus ammo I bought when the price was right and I had the money.
I load for 30+ different cartridges and will soon(I hope) get a 7mm-08 rifle and dies to go with all the ammo and brass a friend gave me.

So yes some people are making it harder for you by hording but there are many new reloaders that are adding to the problem also. I am not one of them as I will not pay the current prices for stuff..........except I do need some 50bmg brass but do not want to pay $.50-$2 a case for it.

 

[cloverleaf]

Mike-
Hang in there man....I am a long ways past college but I am still buying my bullets one box at a time. cant afford it any other way. I have been saying for a couple years now that "they" can and will take away your guns. We can see that primers alone are next to impossible to get. Not to hard to stop our hobby is it? Senator Obama was part of a bill they tried to push through the legislature in Ill. that would have rquired all bullets to have a serial # and all kinds of other crazy stuff. The state of Minnesota paid for an add on the back of the huinting regs this year promoting "lead free" ammo. Thats a bunch of BS as it will only hurt guys like you and me who cant afford 40 bucks for a box of all copper bullets, and you wont see Hornady or Nosler fighting it either. Its a bigger profit for them too.
As I said, hang in there, this is profit taking by some one pure and simple, it will even out. I hate the hoarding too cause it just plays into what some one wants and lines a pocket. Gas is back below 4.00 a gallon, this will even out I think. but check out how much work your neighbors to the north have to go through to own and use there guns. We have to stay on our reresetatives. Even in gods country of the Dakota's. CL

 

[FOTIS]

I feel for you brother. Let the idiots pay 180 bucks for 1000 primers in gunbroker. I will wait until the hypothetical crisis is over.

Went to my gun dealer today. All sorts of powders but only a couple of thousand small pistol primers only, nothing else!

 

[nodak7mm]

Just an observation, based only on what I experience in my locale.

I have not seen powder prices escalate, locally.
I have not seen bullets prices escalate locally since the initial metal market debacle. Same with brass.
I can get what I need and all I want with exception of rifle primers. I just might have to wait a week or two to get specifically what I want.

IMHO, I think the hoarding is in part triggered by our past ability to be able to buy what we want and buy it NOW without waiting.. We have been hit by a triple wammy: Military demand depleting certain reserves, metal markets skyrocketing and change in administration. Two of the three occurred in 93...

But the biggest driver in this entire debacle is the simple law of supply and demand... I really think the bottom line of this current nonesense is being compounded by the profiteers and the hoarders. I and see proof of that by observations in the local market..

Nodak

 

[Guy Miner]

Mike - I'm 30 years older than you and well set for handloading & shooting. But I remember having to buy primers & bullets 100 at a time, and carefully rationing my one-pound of powder.

Sometimes I'll still do that for a cartridge/gun that I don't shoot much.

This shortage will pass, but it may be difficult to keep shooting & loading through it. When you can, transition to buying your primers, powder and bullets in larger quantities. Nothing wrong with getting 1000 primers at a time, or loading up on bullets when you find a good sale. Buying powder in 8 lb jugs saves from having to re-work the load very often - which can be necessary for different lots of powder sometimes.

You might find it better to pick one or two cartridges you really like and use, and lay in good supplies for those, than to have fourteen different cartridges needing different components.

When I look back at my old load notes from the 1970's and 1980's I notice that I often changed powders and bullets - because I bought in small quantities. Now, I'll go for years, and thousands of rounds, without deviating from a load I settled on years before.

Regards and good luck! Guy

 

[YoteSmoker]

Gut Miner said: "You might find it better to pick one or two cartridges you really like and use, and lay in good supplies for those, than to have fourteen different cartridges needing different components."

Very good advice! I think I've finally narrowed my go to cartridges/ centerfire rifles down to five: 2 varmint rifles, 1 target rifle, and 2 big game rifles consisting of 204R, 22-250, 308, 7mm Mag, and 300 RUM that I'm working with now.

Guns and reloading is very addictive for me, and I've had quite a few different guns and calibers for my age. They are fun, but I'd rather spend my time shooting, hunting, and loading a particular bullet per rifle per scope setting. I must admit though, I do have a summertime and wintertime load for the 204 consisting of 32 v-max and 35 berger.

All of them get fed FED match primers...as long as I can find them, which hasn't been anytime lately.

 

[nodak7mm]

Gut Miner said:

Who is Gut Miner?

:mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:

Rod

 

[YoteSmoker]

My BAD, sorry Guy!

 

[old #7]

The primer shortage is being caused by people hoarding ammo.
Us reloaders make up a small percentage of shooters and concerned citizens. The fear of serialized ammo is driving people to buy all the ammo they can get. Can you find and pistol of 22lr ammo? The ammo manufactures are the same people that make primers. Remington, Winshester, Federal, CCI, Wolf to name a few produce large amounts of ammo that is in high demand.
I agree that fear is driving this thing and hoarding hurts everyone but...
I wish I would have stocked up on small pistol primers.
Two years ago I was working out of town and found a gun shop that had multiple cases of primer bricks. I bought a brick of fed 210 and 215 and cci small rifle primers every couple of weeks until I had 3k of each. I haven't bought primers in almost two years.
I have been looking for small pistol for a month and am considering buying some from gun broker. I found one auction with a buy it now price of 65 and 15 for shipping. :twisted: :twisted: that is as low priced as I could find. Two years ago I was paying 22.50 per 1000 and walking out of the store instead of paying for shipping.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

At the gunshow last weekend, I spoke with a seller who sold several cases of primers at $80.00 per 1000, and was getting $120 per 1000 on match primers.

The other day a co-worker asked "where are you buying your ammo these day". I think she was suprised when I told her "I'm NOT". Not at these prices. I'm happy to be in pretty good shape for awhile. In about 18 months, after all this calms down, I'll be shopping, and in about another couple of years, I'll really start watching the estate auctions.

 

[JDMAG]

good idea!

 

[hardpan]

Mike,
First of all, the govt can take away your guns, and have done so... depending on what gun you have. All of our freedoms are subject to change, especially when we have a lot of politians and judges that believe in a living constitution. IE: Does it mean what is says, or what is intrepreted. THe 2nd amendment is quite simple, but we have a ton of gun laws restricting our 2nd amendment rights.

Second, with taxes going up, inflation going up, bullets being outlawed (* just try shooting a lead bullet in Ca.*) and with a congress and president that believe that taxes are a great way to impact behavioural change, I can fully understand buying now as opposed to waiting. 100 lbs of powder sounds excessive as I only use 8lbs a year, but that person may actually load for others and do a lot of shooting. Personally, I bought a brick of primers, and about 16 pounds of powder. Not enough for more than a few years, but certainly the quantity discount made sense to me.

I don't have any problem with a person buying as much as they want, and trying to resell it. That kind of speculation is far to risky for me, but this remains a semi-free country. As you can see on this forum, some people believe that prices will come down, others don't. Since I have not seen prices on guns or ammo or powder come down in the time that I have reloaded, I tend to think that they will stay pretty high, and supply will catch up later, unless our govt decides to regulate this industry even more. Also, I seem to find primers, powder, and bullets quite easily online, but not too much locally as we have regulated a ton of gun shops out of business. Walmart no longer sells ammo or guns in my area... Several good gun dealers have closed shop as well.

I remember when i did not have to pay for haz-mat to ship ($20 per shipment,) I remember when I could buy a gun in any state in the union, now I can only buy in California and have to wait 10 days. I also remember when I could buy several handguns at a time, And that I used to pay around $20 for a premium box (20 shots) of ammo. Now, premium ammo is around $72.99 + hazmat of $20 + tax + shippping and license. (* weatherby *) Makes a box around $100. Good reason to load!

Sorry for the long post, but I am rather fed up with the lack of understanding for people doing perfectly legal things, with their own money, and supporting an industry better that those sitting on the sidelines.
Hardpan

 

[cold_hunter]

hey mike instead of tearing into us fellow handloaders like you are. why dont you try shouting out to somebody in north dakota for a little help. many of us are in your position so just chill a little and say hey all you old rednecks in north dakota anybody spare a few primers for a broke guy in school. hint hint 7mm nodak is too far for you most likely but some of us live half way in between. but dont come on here and yell at the handloaders for being handloaders. put you head in gear before you piss off the people that could help you out. so maybe PM a fellow dak but show some respect and in the future yell at the govt. not the people that are affected by them. and if you think the MAN cant take your firearms ask the people in cal that used to own AR's and AK's legaly after clinton made them register all of them. you are in college do some research man and then arm yourself, with knowledge, guns, and whatever else makes your world go round

 

[.405]

To think that the current group of liberal loonies is not going to do something over the next eight years is a bit naive.The best protection you have is to join the NRA and be sure to vote and call or write your Represenative.