The magnum advantage: about 10%

[Guy Miner]

I've had my 7mm & .30 cal magnums, and enjoyed them. Have a .300 WSM right now.

I don't however buy into the thought that they're "necessary" for most hunting.

A lot of powder, muzzle blast & recoil, for about a 10% advantage over a standard cartridge. That's it, about 10% higher velocity.

.30-06 180 gr at 2750 fps - Nosler factory load
.300 WSM 180 gr at 2900 fps - Nosler factory load
.300 Win Mag, 180 gr at 2950 fps - Nosler factory load

200 fps more for the magnum... Impressive, but... Worth it? I think that's up to the individual rifleman & hunter. A standard cartridge is more than capable of handling big game at 300+ yards.

Worth a thought before plunking money down on some new magnum rifle, when Ol' Betsy keeps on filling tags & freezers just fine.

Guy

 

[Thebear_78]

I agree to a point. A difference of 150-200fps not that noticeable, but once you get to 300-400 fps the difference is noticeable in both trajectory and performance on game.

One example my 300 RUM with 168gr Ttsx @ 3340fps compared to a 168gr Ttsx @ 2800 fps. The RUM carries its energy about 200 yards ahead of the 30-06 and shoots noticeably flatter especially past 400 yards.

Another is the 338 win mag compared to the 338 RUM/LAPUA. Loading the 225gr AccuBond I was getting 3160fps in the 338 RUM compared to struggling to get 2700 out of my buddy's 338 win mag. On a hunting trip a few years ago I saw both loads used on moose and it was a fairly obvious difference noticed on the moose reaction. His didn't seem to notice being hit at 200 yards and mine was visibly rocked at 180.

Granted they both will kill any animal and the magnums come at a price with recoil. At normal hunting ranges of 300 yards or less or on smaller game it probably doesn't make as big a difference, but more horsepower never hurts if you can handle it.

 

[JD338]

I have to agree with the bear_78. Standard rounds have been killing all game since they were introduced. The advantage of a magnum is delivering heavier bullets faster.
Every game animal I have taken could have fallen to the grand 'ol 30-06. The 338 RUM just does it better.

JD338

 

[Guest]

Certainly, I am happy when hunting with a 270Win, 30-06, 8x57, 7mm-08, 308Win, or even 30-30WCF. But just as the compromise for more speed is more recoil and muzzle blast, the compromise for less recoil and muzzle blast is shorter ranges without holdover, and less energy downrange. It's all give-and-take.

I'm kind of in the same comparison as Thebear, when I consider my 270Wby versus my brother's 270Win. With a 22" barrel, 130gr bullets from the Winnie are running along right at 3050fps with published data. (For reference, a 24" barrel might get them up to 3150 or so.) My 270Wby can throw the same bullet out at 3420fps. That's about 15% more velocity, and a correspondingly higher energy. The real difference, though, is the trajectory and thus the Maximum Point Blank Range. That's my "don't think, just shoot" range, so to speak. Hold dead on, breathe, squeeze, follow-through, but no thinking about holdover or distance out to that range. For the 270Win, it's ~275yds with the 130gr Ballistic Tip. For the 270Wby, I switch up to the 130gr E-Tip, and MPBR is ~320yds. I'll take 45yds of "just shoot" distance any day, for the nominal tradeoff of recoil/blast from the Win to the 'bee.

One could make a similar argument about the 300Wby, as well, compared to the 30-06, where the bump is on the order of 18.5% increase in velocity with the 180gr bullets I prefer in the 300. If you step back to the 165s, you still get a similar percent increase. Trajectory is also widely different.

Do I love standard rounds? Sure do. Do I ever feel undergunned with them? Nope. Do I still carry the magnums afield when I want to, knowing they're more blast/recoil? Yep. Enjoy every minute of it, too. And for the sake of argument, all of these are a huge increase in recoil/blast versus my compound bow, but I also still hunt with that dinosaur! Anything to get in the field...and everything to give the best chance possible to harvest.

 

[FOTIS]

I believe there is a place and time where magnums are needed. In my opinion not too often but happens.

30-06 180 2750 fps
30-378 180 3550 fps.

 

[BeeTee]

In my opinion, magnums are relevant mostly because they could turn a poor hit into a game stopping hit. Flatter trajectory is #2 in relevancy. A perfectly placed 165gr NAB/BT from a 308 Winchester at 300 yards will quickly stop any elk. A poor hit when fired at 2800fps muzzle velocity won't have the same effect when compared to the same bullet moving 400-fps faster, due to shock.

The biggest trade-offs that work against the magnums are recoil and barrel life. You've got to be able to shoot the rifle well to place bullets where they need to go. That requires practice. Lots of practice is not necessarily in the magnum's repertiore - recoil and barrel life. BT

 

[usmc 89]

Agree with the last part of the above statement 100%.

 

[meatmachineman]

It has already been touched on, but I tend to be a fan of heavier bullets... an area where I feel the magnums shine. I have a 308, 300WM and 300Roy. Comparing the Roy to the 308 is a bit unfair, but look at 30-06 data as compared to a 300Roy or WinMag in 200 and 220 grain bullets. A quick reference to hodgdons site (dont have my manuals handy) shows a velocity difference of 350-400 fps. That's huge when looking at trajectory and energy.

 

[meatmachineman]

...just did a bit of google ninja work to make sure I was correct, but energy does not increase lineal to velocity. A 10% gain in velocity will yield much more than a 10% gain in energy. Add heavier bullets with even great differences in velocity into the mix and :shock:

 

[SJB358]

I'm with Guy and the others, I get to a point that recoil is unpleasant to shoot the rifle and since I don't like muzzle brakes, I'll stick to the ones that shoot well and don't pound the crap outta me. My fun limit is my 338 Win Mag, I think once I get too much above that, it becomes less fun to shoot. Plus, if I can't kill it with a 250 at 2780 or a 225 at 2875 then I'm not sure what more is going to do. I do like the big guns, but I like the bigger bores more so than the speed. Just my wacky thoughts on it.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Energy is calculated as. Mass X Velocity squared divided by 2. So energy is most affected by velocity. But I much rather have something I can shoot. The magnums to me have no place. I'm a little guy at 5'9" @ 160 so my solution is to add barrel length and maximize cases 280AI 338-06AI. For instance with the 280AI with a 28" tube I can run a 175 @ 2950-3000 which will out run a 06 with 180's. Or I can run 180's in the 338 above 3000 or jump to the 225 and run them 2750-2800 with a 550 BC gives me 1500 FPE at 700 yards pretty impressive for a non-magnum in my book.

In my 280AI with 160AB sighted in at 100yd I can hold on hair for deer at 400 and elk at 500. If I need flatter that I need Vicious Vicky!!!

 

[Thebear_78]

The assumption that it can't be shot accurately if its a magnum is false. My 300 Rum weighs 7 pounds 10 oz scoped, slung, with three in the magazine. No brake, good stock and pad, it's not uncomfortable to shoot. It will print three shots into .5 moa regularly.

It's also a myth that big guys can handle recoil better than little guys. A guy 5'5" and 160 absorbs far less energy than I will at 6'2" 320 pounds. It simply takes twice as much force to move the bigger guy. I know several small women who shoot large magnums.

Poor rifle fit has more to do with recoil sensitivity than cartridge size. I am amazed at how many shooters have ill fitting stocks. I've shot a lot of rifles, and a lot of big rifles, several at light weight and to date the least comfortable rifle I have ever shot was a tikka t3 laminate in 338 win. That thing was brutal, I'd much rather shoot my 375 rum at 6 pounds without scope or brake, and that thing is a handful. The only rifle I have a brake on.

Good fit and practice easily overcome the increase of recoil in magnums

 

[SJB358]

Without a doubt, fit means alot for sure. I like magnums of all sorts, I just tend to like the bigger bore magnums. The RUMS and WBY's are pretty awesome performers, but I enjoy shooting the smaller ones more. Nothing against any of them. They all have a place.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

The only magnum rifle I've ever shot enough to speak of is the 350 Remington Magnum...I was/am drawn to it, 308 trajectory with 35 caliber horsepower...though I don't really consider it a true magnum because the 35 Whelen will do everything it will do and its not a magnum.

I don't like recoil and I absolutely hate long barrels...I prefer 22", can live with 24"...have never owned a 26" or longer.

Now I'm not knocking you guys and your fine magnums...just saying they're not my thing, and never have been...I was spoiled early, by a 25-06.

The other thing is powder consumption...that really is something to consider these days.

Thats my 2 cents worth...

 

[truck driver]

I was brought up in a time where you were told and taught to do more with less. One rifle and one shotgun. My father did conceed that I needed something besides my shotgun for deer and bought me a 30-30 even though I asked for a 30-06. He told me it was enough gun to kill deer. I felt under gunned and was not happy with the accuracy out to 100yds. so the first chance I got when I was old enough was to get my 30-06, a used 725 Remington . I wore the barrel out on it and because it was attached to me at the hip I had it rebarreled to 257 Roberts. I thought I was in love before when it was an 06 now I was infatuated with it. The Smith that installed the new barrel did a fantastic job, she would put 5 shots inside of a dime at 100yds with a cheap 6x Bushnell Banner on top. But I still missed my 06 and had always liked the Ruger 77 and when my local gun shop got one in I had to have it. After extensive inleting work I got her to shoot the way I wanted and retired the Roberts to varmint hunting. Every deer I shot with the Roberts was Bang drop dead but still liked the way the 06 would lay them down. I didn't know a lot about balistics and muzzel energy I just knew that if I put the cross hairs in the right place what ever I shot at was dead.
Now I own a 300 Roy but it has yet to prove it's self in the accuracy department at the range. Granted I haven't been physically able to shoot it a lot to find out what it likes but it's time is coming fast and I have some reloads waiting for it.
I like my standard calibers alot but it's what you have confidence in to get the job done. :grin:

 

[Anonymous]

I think the magnums DO have a place...realizing that 'magnum' is just a marketing buzz word.

I can and have killed game with standard cartridges, but in the open country I hunt an accurate magnum may not be a true game changer, but the advantage in trajectory and down range energy is certainly significant and noticeable.

That said, I feel that no one really "needs" a magnum since you can do almost anything in N.America with an '06 or a Whelen. But for me the downrange difference is significant enough that I'll "Make mine a magnum".

 

[Oldtrader3]

Presently with the sale of my .340 Weatherby which was replaced by a 9.3x74R, an older cartridge, designated as a medium, in British terms a .360 Rigby, I now only own one rifle which carries a magnum designation. This is my 7mm Rem Mag which I have used for long range deer hunting since 1963.

This state of affairs is more based on the fact that, because of health, I no longer hunt elk or larger game. It is not based on any religious conversion or aversion to magnums. During most of my life I have owned at least 4 magnum rifles at any given moment and I still see a legitimate use for them.

My own philosophy on rifles is that I load one single load for each caliber which I own. This load is usually based on the most commonly used bullet for that particular caliber. In .25 caliber, I use the 110 grain AB, in the .27 caliber, I use the 130 grain PT, in the .30-06, the 165 PT and so on......... up through the 9.3x74R with the 286 grain bullet.

This may be boring commonality but the system works for me, bigger animal, bigger caliber, bigger bullet. Not all capable calibers are magnums. There are scads of calibers, some 100+ years old that will kill very adequately for their caliber category without being called a magnum or without having that silly belt in order to complicate my loading setup!

 

[usmc 89]

magnums have a place for sure, but for the most part at which distance most animals are shot at I would say a standard has more than enough energy to complete the task. I have had several magnums in the past, but I will say I will give up energy to watch the impact through the scope for confirmation of placement. As far as being able to shoot a large magnum as well as I can a .260, I myself can't do that.

 

[Oldtrader3]

...just did a bit of google ninja work to make sure I was correct, but energy does not increase lineal to velocity. A 10% gain in velocity will yield much more than a 10% gain in energy. Add heavier bullets with even great differences in velocity into the mix and :shock:

E=Mc2

 

[wildgene]

...well, I guess I'll be the "Voice of Dissent", kinda...

...in my little world...



...I'm a little more concerned w/ delivering the goods, say the "mystical" 2000ft.lbs. of energy...

...using the Nosler #6 & 180gr. NAB...

.. a .30-06 @2800fps MV// 2130ft.lbs @ 250yds. w/ 61grs. of powder...
...a .300WSM @ 3050fps MV// 2102ft.lbs. @ 450yds. w/ 66grs. 9% more powder; 150% increase in "effective range"...
...a .300WM @ 3100fps MV// 2038ft.lbs. @ 500yds. w/ 73grs.// 10%//11%...
...a .300RUM @ 3250fps MV// 2120ft.lbs @ 550yds. w/ 95grs.// 23%// 10%...

...personally, I'm willing to accept the nominal increase in "felt recoil" for half again as much "effective range", I tend to be a little more reluctant to accept the much more noticeable recoil of larger magnums for a 10% increase...