The magnum advantage: about 10%

[Oldtrader3]

Or shoot them with a .340 Weatherby which is my solution! This particular elk was shot with a .30-06 which is not my preferred rifle for elk. Most of my elk have been killed with 210 gr or 225 gr Partitions in a .338 WM.

 

[Greg Nolan]

With Hodgdon Superformance powder my 30-06 puts the 180 AccuBond across my Chrono at 3005 fps with a below max load. Soooo Which magnum.
For a 750 lb elk to react to the shot like a 175 lb deer does to a 30-06 it takes more than adding 150 fps to the velocity. You can load a 30-06 with a 220 grain bullet and get superb penetration but it won't have the shock at 2400fps that a 338RUM with a 225 gr bullet at 3100fps. That's matching the gun to the game in a real way. 2900 fpe vs 5000 fpe with the hydrostatic shock that will take the elk down by the nervous system and let it bleed out. It ain't fun to shoot but the elk does not saunter off to die somewhere else.
That being said, a premium 180 gr. bullet from a 30-06 will cleanly take an elk with a well placed shot, but can we guarantee the elk will co-operate by giving us that shot.
I'll be carrying the 375 or 338 RUM for elk and the 06 for deer.
My opinion for what it's worth.

P.S. The 35 Whelen would work if I had one.

 

[SJB358]

With Hodgdon Superformance powder my 30-06 puts the 180 AccuBond across my Chrono at 3005 fps with a below max load.

Greg, that is FAST? What is the load?

 

[bobnob]

Very fast. If it were my rifle I would back that load off just a tad for extra margin of safety.

I had a ruptured case early this year. Not because of an overload, but because I dumbly used old 1940s era ex mil cases and one was corroded. It was very very unpleasant. I am so lucky my eye was not damaged, nor was the rifle luckily.

So I err on the side of extra margin of safety these days.

 

[Thebear_78]

If so many of you have no need for a magnum, why in gods name to you insist in pushing you standard cartridges to "magnum" levels???

The beauty of going with a magnum is you get that performance without having to push things. I'm below max on all my loadings. I can easily load my 300 Rum to 30-30, 308, 30/06, 300 win and 300 rum levels. My load of 168gr Ttsx @ 3340fps could possibly be done in a 300 win but you'd have to really push the limits, where the rum does it without even breaking a sweat.

It takes pressure to achieve that kind of velosity, that's why reloading companies say to use a chronograph and not exceed their velosites. You could easily have a tight bore, short throat or any number of variables that would cause higher than expected pressures/velocities. One thing for sure, you don't get speed for free. Have you checked it with a second chronograph?

 

[Guy Miner]

The magnum guys have convinced me to carry my .25-06 while elk hunting.

 

[FOTIS]

With Hodgdon Superformance powder my 30-06 puts the 180 AccuBond across my Chrono at 3005 fps with a below max load.

Greg, that is FAST? What is the load?

Holy speed batman! :shock:

 

[FOTIS]

The magnum guys have convinced me to carry my .25-06 while elk hunting.

I am carrying my 444 Marlin or 308 Sako Finnwolf.

 

[Thebear_78]

No reason it wouldn't work fine. There are few animals I wouldn't happily shoot with the lovely 243 winchester properly loaded and used to its limitations.

Here is a tip for all you standard cartridge pushers out there, guaranteed to pick you up a few hundred extra feet per second. Wedge a thumbtack into the back of a beta chrony so it won't quite open all the way flat. That little trick had me pulling bullets and remeasuring shot charges, even bought a new digital scale, finally figured it out. It's a lot cheaper than blowing up a rifle with hot loads trying to turn a 30/06 into a 300 win mag

 

[Oldtrader3]

For deer hunting I will stick to my .257 Roberts or .270 Win. For elk , I will use my .338 Federal or the 9.3x74R. There I can get through life without that darned belt!

 

[gerry]

I agree hot rodding rounds is a bad idea regardless of whether it is a standard or magnum round, I shudder at some of the loads I have seen on websites. Some of the 264 WM loads I've seen are scary they would blow a primer in mine for sure. If you are the type that wants high speeds then loading a large magnum to reasonable chamber pressures is the way to go.

 

[Richracer1]

That's why I strictly go by accuracy when I develop a load for my rifles. If I get a nice tight group size that satisfies me for that rifle, the velocity is what it is, period. Of course I don't hinder myself, I start with a powder that has the best potential for making good velocity.

 

[big rifle man]

I agree with you completely Rich. I've never gone maximum load in any of my rifles because of being able to find the most accurate load at slightly lower power levels. I've seen a number of Elk hit with a variety of calibers and when their hit with a 225 grain bullet out of a .338RUM the reaction is totally different than a hit from a lesser caliber. Will they drop from a lesser caliber when the shot is placed where it should be, of course, but I haven't had to chase any Elk around the woods after whacking him with my RUM, and as everyone knows when Elk go down after running it's usually in a terrible place.

 

[Guy Miner]

Yeah, I keep hoping game will run to the truck after being shot.

Doesn't happen often. I really need to start shooting things uphill from where I park.

Guy

 

[IdahoCTD]

I agree with you completely Rich. I've never gone maximum load in any of my rifles because of being able to find the most accurate load at slightly lower power levels. I've seen a number of Elk hit with a variety of calibers and when their hit with a 225 grain bullet out of a .338RUM the reaction is totally different than a hit from a lesser caliber. Will they drop from a lesser caliber when the shot is placed where it should be, of course, but I haven't had to chase any Elk around the woods after whacking him with my RUM, and as everyone knows when Elk go down after running it's usually in a terrible place.

A lot of that is bullet diameter too. When I first moved to Idaho I had Bruce Baer build me a hunting weight .308 Baer and a straight cylinder version as well to shoot chucks with. The first elk I shot with the sporter was a spike at about 100yds using 165PT's at 3350fps. The first shot was in the lungs. He walked behind a bush. Then he came back out and I shot him again. He walked behind the same bush and came back out so I shot him again. This went on for 4 shots. It was like a arcade game. The first 3 shots went through the lungs and could have been covered by a baseball. The fourth shot he took a step as I shot and hit him in the liver. From that point until just recently I went up in caliber. I built a .358STA and shot numerous elk with it but the 250gr Hornady bullets I shot in it didn't expand well. It still dropped all the elk within feet of being hit and all were one shot kills. Then I built a .375-.358STA and shot 250gr Sierra's for 6 or 7 more elk. The only one I had to chase I hit in the ankle at about 650yds. This was back before the days of compact laser rangefinders. All the rest were one and done and most were shot in the lungs. Then I built a .416 Rem. and shot several more elk and a moose. The moose is the only animal I shot twice. It was dead on it's feet but I always keep shooting until they are down. I shot a bull elk through the lungs at 350yds that literally collapsed and didn't move. I think with the explosive bullets we have today that reaction is more common with lesser calibers but I still feel there is no replacement for displacement.

 

[Thebear_78]

I don't think you can knock a moose down with horsepower alone. I've seen them soak up some serious FPE and heavy bullets from big 338s, 375s, and 458s. The only one I have seen collapse was a spike/fork that a buddies mother in law shot with a 270 winchester. He dropped like he stepped in a hole. Remington green box 150gr corelok. You gotta hit the off switch to get that kind of effect from a moose.

Generally they stiffen up. And show little reaction. I don't stop shooting till their down no matter what. Dressing a moose in three feet of water is no fun, I know! Neither is a airboat ride in your tighty whiteys on a wet 40 degree morning because you don't want to wear your completely blood soaked clothes to your tent, to keep from inviting large brown toothy guests

 

[DrMike]

I don't think you can knock a moose down with horsepower alone. I've seen them soak up some serious FPE and heavy bullets from big 338s, 375s, and 458s. The only one I have seen collapse was a spike/fork that a buddies mother in law shot with a 270 winchester. He dropped like he stepped in a hole. Remington green box 150gr corelok. You gotta hit the off switch to get that kind of effect from a moose.

Generally they stiffen up. And show little reaction. I don't stop shooting till their down no matter what. Dressing a moose in three feet of water is no fun, I know! Neither is a airboat ride in your tighty whiteys on a wet 40 degree morning because you don't want to wear your completely blood soaked clothes to your tent, to keep from inviting large brown toothy guests

I completely agree. Moose have a nasty habit when they are hit of looking around to see if there are any bodies of water nearby into which they can run before expiring. If water bodies are not available, they will assuredly look for a nasty spruce grove. How they get those massive bodies into such tight quarters, I've never figured out. To haul them out requires extensive logging so there is a place to get a quad to them. If they didn't taste so good, I'd never shoot another one. On the other hand, at the rate I'm going this year, it may be that long before I drop another one. I need to get out again.

 

[Greg Nolan]

The load is 59.5 gr. superformance. I didn't intend it to be a magnum load it just turned out that way and it's accurate.
The debate goes on. I just go on experience. I hate tracking elk that ran off with one or two holes in their lungs. As someone on this forum wrote, "I do my tracking before I shoot".

 

[IdahoCTD]

I know what it's like to cut up a moose in 3' of water too. On the Yukon R. we had one run into a pond that I had to put chest waders on for. I barely reached him on my tip toes and floated him over until his belly hit the bottom.

I'm sure there is a caliber out there that would topple a moose consistently but I don't want to shoot it.

 

[Thebear_78]

I drilled one twice thru the ribs with 9.3x62 with 286gr Partition at 280 yards. Excellent bullet performance, but darn moose made it 40 yards to a giant floating mat of vegetation, Just enough substance to cling to your legs and keep from moving the moose without cutting him up. 10" of tangled floating grass in 3 foot of water. Waders would have been nice!!!