The magnum advantage: about 10%

[DrMike]

Your story certainly brings a smile to my face--not a smile at pleasant memories, more of a sardonic grimace at the memory of the work entailed in wrestling these aquatic demons from their watery death bed. The only thing that could make it worse, is to be wading out with the snow flying... Oh, wait, that has happened, also. :?

 

[Oldtrader3]

"There is no replacement for displacement"!

 

[SJB358]

"There is no replacement for displacement"!

Without a doubt! That is why I tend to the bigger bullets. Still love the smaller calibers, but the moose and the elk of the world warrant big bullets..

 

[IdahoCTD]

I drilled one twice thru the ribs with 9.3x62 with 286gr Partition at 280 yards. Excellent bullet performance, but darn moose made it 40 yards to a giant floating mat of vegetation, Just enough substance to cling to your legs and keep from moving the moose without cutting him up. 10" of tangled floating grass in 3 foot of water. Waders would have been nice!!!

No offense to those that use them but after having the four I shot into the spike not exit at 100yds I stopped using partitions (I actually tried them in my .358STA but they wouldn't shoot so that ended my Partition days). I've seen quite a few elk not react when shot with partitions. I personally like more trauma or an exit hole.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think you can knock a moose down with horsepower alone.

Absolutely. I've seen them take a pounding and never flinch. The first one I saw was hit square in the nose facing the shooter at 100'. Took the 300WM round right up the snout and just stood there shaking his head a bit. Took 4 or 5 more to put him down.

Since then, saw them take more .300s, plus .338s, .375s, and.458s and just shrug it off. The old guys would sneak up and shoot them in the ribs and then leave them be until they got dizzy and laid down...which is about 2 min. according to several. Talk about a long 2 min!

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have never shot a moose but Partitions surely do take the air out of bull elk at any reasonable range. I have never recovered a Partition from an elk or from a deer. Only one 130 gr, .270 Win Partition was recovered from an antelope shot through 4 feet lengthwise at 250 yards. This was the first shot and the antelope ran nearly full bore for another 200+ yards before I drilled his lungs with another Partition that exited his lungs and dropped him. The first bullet was a perfect textbook mushroom under the skin next to his anus after being center punched in the chest at 200 yards.

I have used Partitions exclusively since that incident 36 years ago without another failure to DRT!

 

[tjen]

Right now I'm really liking my 270s as I can get over 3000fps with a 130 or 140 grain bullet. It's within spitting distance of my 7mm Weatherbys with a bullet only marginally less in weight, and the recoil is notably less. For a carry rifle or anything in Michigan I can't see much advantage to going any larger. I'm even respecting it more with regard to larger game such as elk if one wanted to use it. With a premium bullet there's no reason why it can't be useful to 500 yards under the right conditions.

Actual in MI there is nothing the 35rem won't dispatch effectively with in 125 yards. The 35 has been taken moose elk and black bears for over 100 years and there still built like the first of their kind were. I think our elk herd was reastablished from alberta's elk stock.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Right now I'm really liking my 270s as I can get over 3000fps with a 130 or 140 grain bullet. It's within spitting distance of my 7mm Weatherbys with a bullet only marginally less in weight, and the recoil is notably less. For a carry rifle or anything in Michigan I can't see much advantage to going any larger. I'm even respecting it more with regard to larger game such as elk if one wanted to use it. With a premium bullet there's no reason why it can't be useful to 500 yards under the right conditions.

Actual in MI there is nothing the 35rem won't dispatch effectively with in 125 yards. The 35 has been taken moose elk and black bears for over 100 years and there still built like the first of their kind were. I think our elk herd was reastablished from alberta's elk stock.

It's been years since I shot anything as close as 125 yards in Michigan.
The last time I had a close shot was 31 yards for my cow elk in Montana, November of 2008. But Michigan? Only turkeys seem to be that close.

And, I didn't even own my 35 Rem until this past spring, so I couldn't have used it. I just wish it was legal in the southern half of the state.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I used a .35 Rem, Model 336 in Georgia where I could not get into moose or elk trouble. The 336 in .35 was also very helpful in having to fast shoot up a wild dog pack attack while I was sitting against a large tree and could not move, just shoot fast. I killed the leader and two subordinate dogs in a pack of 7 or 8 thanks to the Marlin. Plus, I did not get even bitten in the attack. All dogs were the same size and looked like smallish pit bulls of different colors.

I also killed my largest whitetail in Georgia with the same .35 Rem rifle with a shot to the base of the ear while the deer was alert but bedded. I have not used a .35 Rem since, this was in 1969.

 

[Thebear_78]

Pretty sure physics are physics everywhere and not just in Michigan! Same could be said for 30-30, I don't think anyone questions the old standards performance at their limitations.

I have killed many a whitetail with a marlin 1894 in 357 magnum. that quick handling little rifle was perfect for a wet, windy day, still hunting in standing corn. I definitely see the appeal of short, handy leverguns.

My first magnum was a 7mm rem mag with a 4-12 swift scope on it that I bought at Williams gunsight in Michigan. I was 17 and spent all summer banging away at the ram at 500 yards at the local range. Had a good accurate load with a 150 gr Sierra game king @ 2900fps that would print 3 shots inside a cigarette pack at 300 yards.

Later that year I was deer hunting right across the road from the shotgun only line in Michigan. After a deer drive I came out to a field edge near where I was parked and saw a guy standing on the edge of the field watching Some does out in the middle of a large cut corn field. He was holding a winchester 94 in 30-30. The does where well out of his range.

I offered him the 7 mm rem mag I had in my truck. He asked if I could shoot one of them for him. I knocked the largest of the three down at 447 paces. It was my first long range shot at game. Range estimation was a lot easier back there because you could easily break down mile sections, I figured that one to be just over a quarter mile.

He was the land owner and after some talk while we drug the deer out I sealed permission to hunt coyotes there that winter and deer in later years.

Guess what I'm saying is you can't always get within 125 yards, even in Michigan. If your willing to pass up all those times then more power to you.


PS.
The magnums work equally well under 125 yards too.

 

[mcseal2]

I have and like both. For big game hunting I generally let barrel length decide what I want to carry. The decision is usually pretty easy. I carry my 264 with it's 25" barrel anytime I will be mainly sitting, or hunting more open country where the extra length won't result in me hanging the stock up on overhead limbs in my Eberlestock, or having to navigate through them with it in hand.

If I'm in tighter quarters I'll pack the Ruger American 270 I picked up. It is light short and shoots between 1/2" and 3/4" groups regularly.

The 264 pushes a 140gr Berger to 2950fps with it's most accurate load of 60gr H4831SC, a 140gr AccuBond hits 3000fps with the same powder load and still stays sub MOA. The 270 with 58gr of the same powder pushes a 140gr AccuBond to 2925fps so there isn't much difference in performance. Attempts to push my 264 faster open groups and it kills just fine like it is so I'm not changing anything until I get ahold of some LRAB's to try.

I've always been a magnum lover, but my flinch developed from years of shooting the 300win at everything from small varmints up in extended sessions has made me face reality. I shoot the 264-270 class of rounds comfortably and more accurately than I do anything bigger. They have done the job for a long time with lesser bullets than what we have available today for me to load, they will still do the job.

 

[orchemo]

Been out at the range a couple times in the past week. And as I shoot my various rifles, I realize two things.
1. I do not care for lots of recoil.
2. I shoot better with a rifle I know I shoot well.

I know some serious rifleman are not bothered by recoil and that is great, I tend to think less about recoil verses what rifle "I" shoot well.

I find myself hanging around the '06 based cartridges. (35 Whelen, 30-06 and 280). The rifles I have in these calibers, I seem to shoot well. Be that the rifle or the caliber, does not really matter as long as "I" shoot it well. I know my hunting partner who shoots a 338 RUM has much more range than my 35 Whelen, but I accept that.

I know my Whelen, I am confident with it and that is what matters.

As I left the range this morning and thought back upon how I shot. It gave me confidence and reservations about my various rifles The 338 Wm had vertical spread from my shooting. The 280 shot 5 rounds into an inch at 100 yds.

I think we all just find the rifle we shoot well and that is our rifle. Caliber is less important. If you shoot a monster magnum well, great for you. Most important to master what you have and what works for you.

Cheers
Eric

 

[Oldtrader3]

I am not particularly recoil sensitive but as I get older, I enjoy shooting my .257Roberts and .270 Win more and my 9.3x74R about the same. Rifles including the 7mm Mag and .30-06 never have bothered me much. If you have a well designed stock, it makes all the difference to me with how I perceive recoil.

 

[Guy Miner]

I drilled one twice thru the ribs with 9.3x62 with 286gr Partition at 280 yards. Excellent bullet performance, but darn moose made it 40 yards to a giant floating mat of vegetation, Just enough substance to cling to your legs and keep from moving the moose without cutting him up. 10" of tangled floating grass in 3 foot of water. Waders would have been nice!!!

No offense to those that use them but after having the four I shot into the spike not exit at 100yds I stopped using partitions (I actually tried them in my .358STA but they wouldn't shoot so that ended my Partition days). I've seen quite a few elk not react when shot with partitions. I personally like more trauma or an exit hole.

And I saw a single 7mm, 175 gr Partition blow right through a big bull elk, dropping him quickly. No bullet recovered, because it's buried somewhere in the Wind River Mountains. I'll keep right on using the Partitions, because they expand and penetrate! :grin: I keep hearing that moose often don't react to even a good hit (or several good hits) and 40 yards is nothing for them, even after being fatally shot.

You might get different results...

I'm having a tough time deciding between several different Nosler bullets for the upcoming South Africa trip.

270 gr .375" Nosler Partitions (old, no longer in production, they dropped weight to 260)
260 gr .375" Nosler AccuBond (REALLY accurate in my rifle and proven effective at close or longish ranges)

Some sort of .30 cal Nosler....

220 gr semi-spitzer Partition?
200 gr Partition
180 gr Partition

Huh. A lot of bullets called Partitions... Weird. Must have something to do with first using them back in the 1970's and have never been able to fault them. Magnum or standard cartridges. Dang.

Regards, Guy

 

[Oldtrader3]

You could shoot a moose with a Ma-deuce soft point bullet and it might still walk 40 yards. Moose are pretty phlegmatic. Partitions will sometimes not get through a moose shoulder but then most bullets won't. I admit that I am mostly a deer hunter but I also use small calibers on deer (.257 Roberts 100 grain PT) and they still go through the animal and kill it DRT. I have shot nearly all of my deer with partitions and have never recovered a bullet from deer shot with a Partition in 50 years!

I have also killed several elk with a 7mm Mag, .30-06, .300 H&H and .338 Win Mag all with heavier for caliber Partition bullets and I have never had a failure to harvest in all of these years, no matter what the angle with all bullets and all but one, fully penetrating the animal. Elk also have a strong will to live and are very hard to kill upon occasion. I stand by Partitions!

 

[gerry]

Been out at the range a couple times in the past week. And as I shoot my various rifles, I realize two things.
1. I do not care for lots of recoil.
2. I shoot better with a rifle I know I shoot well.

I know some serious rifleman are not bothered by recoil and that is great, I tend to think less about recoil verses what rifle "I" shoot well.

I find myself hanging around the '06 based cartridges. (35 Whelen, 30-06 and 280). The rifles I have in these calibers, I seem to shoot well. Be that the rifle or the caliber, does not really matter as long as "I" shoot it well. I know my hunting partner who shoots a 338 RUM has much more range than my 35 Whelen, but I accept that.

I know my Whelen, I am confident with it and that is what matters.

As I left the range this morning and thought back upon how I shot. It gave me confidence and reservations about my various rifles The 338 Wm had vertical spread from my shooting. The 280 shot 5 rounds into an inch at 100 yds.

I think we all just find the rifle we shoot well and that is our rifle. Caliber is less important. If you shoot a monster magnum well, great for you. Most important to master what you have and what works for you.

Cheers
Eric

Well put Eric, I find myself also shooting better on average with rifles that recoil at the level of my 35 Whelen or smaller. There is a lot to be said about standard rounds like the 270, 280, 30-06 etc or the small bore magnums from about 7mm Rem Mag or smaller, they work well without excessive recoil.

 

[Vince]

I was hesitant to post in this thread but decided, "in for a penny in for a pound" and figure I'll give my $0.02.

My hunting experience is minimal compared to you guys and gals here but I try to pay attention to clues offered along the way and learn. Last year I went to WY for my first antelope hunt. I was using the 25/06 with an 87 Grain Hornady load. It was all I could get to shoot well in that rifle at the time so that's what I used.

Wind taught me that I need speed and a heavy bullet to better resist wind drift. Distance taught me that I needed speed and energy. Since using that 25/06, still a favored rifle of mine as an all around "handy" rifle that's fun to shoot, I've opted to go with the .300 Win Mag. At first I was scared of the recoil being that I'd fired the .35 Whelen years ago and didn't care for it. Anyway, I committed myself to learning how to shoot the "Magnum" and cheated by adding weight to the first magnum by means of a recoil reducer.

Now I'm on a second magnum, still a heavy rifle, have gotten some pointers from a friend that shoots in competitions and has a lot of rifle experience at longer distances, made some adjustments to the stock to have it better fit me, and was pleased to discover that the big bad magnum didn't kill me or leave my arm hanging off of me unable to use it. (How's that for a run-on sentence )

Being that my closest antelope shot and killed was at 187 Yards offhand and 300 Yards is considered "close" in this desert locality I've opted for the .300 Win Mag as my deer rifle. I've spent a lot of time at the range and feel confident, given position and wind variables that are in my favor, out to 600 Yards on the little itty bitty deer we have out here. 90 pounds, dressed out, is a good sized deer.

If I was in Georgia I wouldn't opt for the magnum but I'm not in Georgia. I think each location will have calibers that work best in that area. The style and type of hunting also plays a part in caliber selection I think, no matter the caliber, I consider bullet selection and placement to be of first importance. If I couldn't "handle" the magnum then I'd have to select something else. Admittedly I shoot the 25/06 better, by 2/10ths of an inch over the .300 Win Mag. 2/10th of an inch is an acceptable trade off in my book. That difference could also be that I haven't quite "tweaked" my load to optimal performance yet too.

After this year's deer season I'll start working on my .338 Win Mag and looking for a .270 Winchester with a left hand action. I'm planning a moose hunt in the next couple of years, as well as going for elk. At closer ranges standard calibers work well. At longer distances, higher wind, and larger game sometimes the magnums work better. It is up to the hunter to select the caliber and bullet that will work best for them that they can shoot well and that can only be accomplished by time behind the rifle.

Vince

 

[popspastime]

140 Grain Nosler AccuBond's being pushed at 3700 fps. out of a 7MM STW is enough for me never to look back at the standards again.

 

[Guy Miner]

Wow - what are you using for a barrel?

That's almost 300 fps faster than the fastest load in Nosler's newest manual.

They're showing 3432 fps from a 26" 1-9 twist Lilja, for the 140 gr bullets pushed by a max charge of RL-25.

Guy

 

[DrMike]

popspastime,

Make certain your Shooting Chrony is fully opened; otherwise, it will give you a false reading of excessive velocities.