Trouble FL sizing my 270 wsm

[nshunter]

With all the numbers within specs it might be the base of the case is expanding from the pressure. If the primer pocket is loose than there has probably been expansion beyond the chamber size. I have found this in several different calibers when I got a little too hot on my load. It can even set the bolt back a little and give you headspace problems. My 270 WSM was hard to resize for also. What load and bullet and OAL are you using?
Greg

Well I can tell you that the very first box of ammo put through this rifle was federal blue box and was very hot, ejector marks on the cases and stiff bolt lift after firing. The primer pockets were all very loose when I went to reload them. Do you think this caused a headspace problem? The load I am using is 67 grains of win 780 with a 140 grain BT OAL is 2.83 I believe.

 

[mikel9322002]

Have u tried over caming

 

[300WSM]

What is the rifle we are talking about?

 

[nshunter]

What is the rifle we are talking about?

browning x bolt

 

[300WSM]

Ok....let me throw this out there on a long shot

I just went through something very similar with a Remington XCRII. I could take brand new brass and it was insane to chamber. Not all of them but some of them were. They were all within allowable dimensions and of course they were new. So I sized them. no different. I chased my tail for a while on this and here is what it was.

It was the extractor on the bolt. It was grabbing too much of the case and was ridiculous to cam the chambered round over.

One of the things that tells me this MIGHT be an issue is you made mention somewhere along the posts about getting a mark or nick....(whatever you said) on the case head. I went though the same exact thing which was what pointed me to the rifle. Every round I chambered in this rifle would get a nick or a gouge. I fixed the extractor and this got rid of the problem.

This may not be the issue with yours and probably isn't but you saying about the cases getting scarred makes me think ...maybe. :?:

P.S. Federal Ammo is not going to be loaded too hot for your rifle. You wouldn't believe how hot you could go before getting some signs if I told you. And I won't :lol:

 

[Greg Nolan]

Based on the hard bolt lift and primer pocket expansion There is a pressure issue. The question is why. Is it a tight chamber or headspace issue? I have also had the ejector issue but it doesn't cause pressure signs. Velocity can be a great indicator of pressure also. If the loads chronograph faster than they should it may be a tight chamber that requires the load be worked up until normal velocities for the load are achieved and see if new brass has chambering issues still. I had one new Vanguard 22-250 that I started with a load that was mid range in the manual. It took a 2x4 to open the action and the ejector was jamed and the extractor was broken. Some chambers are tight. The last one machined before they replaced the reamer.
If all else fails a call the manufactor and see if they will check it and repair it if necessary. You shouldn't be having hard bolt lift issues with factory ammo.
Good Luck
Greg

 

[300WSM]

I went back and read some of this again.

You have brass in the chamber?

Do you have any brass on the bolt face? Around the extractor area to be precise. When my extractor was bad I had brass everywhere. Bolt face and chamber.

Again, I can't stress to you enough that it just didn't make sense what was happening to my rem...and I looked into the extractor. That was it.

The loose primer pockets don't make sense and that is a different situation IMO such as number of firings...how hard are you cleaning the pockets??????...etc etc.

Does the case look normal when you pull it out of the rifle with the exception of having a mark on the case head...???? This sure sounds like an extractor to me.


Given the fact that you have rounds that are chambering ok...I don't see how it could be a bad die set because die sets aren't an active device. They are passive and if you have some rounds ok....and others not...how on earth could the die change the sizing between them. Especially if you left it set up in the press and sized them all at once.

You could have a tight chamber but why aren't all your cases going in? You seem bright enough to have measured the body ....necks etc.


How far are you from the nearest store who has an identical rifle and caliber as yours? Any friends have the same rifle?

You could swap a bolt just to try a case you know is giving you a hard time and see. It was one of the ways I narrowed down the Rem problem I had. I took a 700 bolt from another 300wsm and all those rounds that would and wouldnt chamber went from all being so tight to close ...to being able to close the bolt the way it should!

 

[nshunter]

I don't have a chronograph so I can't check velocity. I also suspected the ejector may be the problem as well, and yes I am getting some brass shavings on the bolt face, but not nearly as many as in the chamber neck area. I went back to my dealer last year right after this first happened and of course it chambered everything fine there (factory ammo). I still believe the factory federal ammo I shot first was loaded too hot as the Winchester ammo I fired next was factory loaded and showed no signs of excess pressure, but I did have two rounds that were difficult to chamber. Maybe that first box of ammo bent my ejector or extractor, hard to say unless I can take a bolt out of another rifle and try it? I don't know anyone who has one and not sure if my dealer has one in stock? I'm going to call him though.

 

[nshunter]

Yes the case heads are buggered up pretty good too where the extractor has been biting! Sounds like this is most likely the problem.

 

[nshunter]

So I decided to try filing the case heads that were buggered up the most. Made some progress, I was then able to chamber each case about 10 times before it bound up again. I am still left wondering if it is the shoulder not being pushed far enough back on certain cases, that is causing the extractor to not get a good bite on the case head though?

 

[Greg Nolan]

It sounds like the extractor may be part of the problem and maybe the Federal ammo was hot. If it's a new rifle the manufactor will repair the problem free, you local gunsmith won't. I've had to send 3 rifles back and they repaired two free and replaced one with a new rifle (Winchester). Chances are that the manufactor will already know if they had a run of bad parts or machining issues and get it back within 2 weeks or so. You could spend a lot of money on gunsmithing in that time to the same end. This is just my experience.
Good luck.
Greg

 

[nshunter]

Yes it is a new rifle, I was hping to avoid sending it back, but I think it may be necessary.

 

[nshunter]

I ordered anew set of RCBS dies today, thought I should try them before I do anything else.

 

[kraky1]

At some point in the near future please consider getting a hornady headspace measuring bushing kit. These are about $35 and I find them one of my best tool investments in reloading. I don't own a wsm but have loaded for a few friends and that tough thick brass is a realm of it's own.
One other thing I've found when loading full power loads for the couple of wsms' I loaded for is that I think its important to have at least .003" headspace to keep the bolt functioning easily for follow up shots. It's my thinking that if you don't and that big shoulder area is rubbing against the front of the chamber on extraction the bolt seems to work harder in the lift stage.
I haven't gotten into annealing for the wsms yet but have for all my other cases. I'm thinking it's gonna help alot of the sizing issues that seem to come about from these cases.

 

[300WSM]

Nshunter,

RCBS is a fine product but there is no way it will fix your issue. The lee die set won't make some cases go in and some of them not. Die sets do not work in that fashion.

You can try a bolt from a 270 or 300 or 7mm or a 325 ...as long as they are WSM rifles the bolt will work so you would know for sure. (AS LONG AS THEY MATCH YOUR RIFLE TYPE)

Having brass deposits in the chamber and the bolt will absolutely make the same round chamber and not chamber at times. The tolerances get really tight in that chamber and if you worked a caliper you know just how little a thousandth can be. yet that can be enough to make something go or not go in the chamber. A brass shaving can be greater than a thousandth
and they are also shifting inside there every time you work that bolt, chamber a round..etc...the brass shavings will be moving. Hence why you get a good chambering one time and a bad one the next time.
I just sent you a PM with my phone number as I can tell you a few things to try.

 

[nshunter]

An update on my progress with this problem. I think it was the extractor causing the problem, I took a good look at it and it appeared to have a very rough edge with a high spot at the end. A 5 minute file job combined with a really good cleaning to get all of the brass filings out of the chamber and it seems to be working perfectly. A couple of pretty large pieces of brass came out of the chamber area, they could have easily been causing my problem. I believe the rough extractor was causing brass filings to shear off and eventually they would work themselves up into the face of the chamber as well as underneath the extractor itself causing an intermittent chambering problem as the pieces would move around with each firing. The new dies seem to resizing the brass to about the same dimensions as the lee dies, so I don't believe the Lee dies were at fault.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Check your chamber also for any burrs that might be a cause for your problems as well.

 

[nshunter]

Check your chamber also for any burrs that might be a cause for your problems as well.

Good point, this is something I suspected as well, but have not been able to confirm. If I get any more shavings in the chamber then I will be taking a look at this more closely.

 

[SJB358]

At some point in the near future please consider getting a hornady headspace measuring bushing kit. These are about $35 and I find them one of my best tool investments in reloading. I don't own a wsm but have loaded for a few friends and that tough thick brass is a realm of it's own.
One other thing I've found when loading full power loads for the couple of wsms' I loaded for is that I think its important to have at least .003" headspace to keep the bolt functioning easily for follow up shots. It's my thinking that if you don't and that big shoulder area is rubbing against the front of the chamber on extraction the bolt seems to work harder in the lift stage.
I haven't gotten into annealing for the wsms yet but have for all my other cases. I'm thinking it's gonna help alot of the sizing issues that seem to come about from these cases.

I think Kraky nailed the same thing I have found. I tend to need about .003"-.004" of headspace for easier chambering and it doesn't seem to hurt brass or accuracy a bit. With the other belted mags, .002" works excellent, but the WSM's seem to want a little more, at least with my rifles.

Get a headspace gauge, the money spent will save you on brass over the long haul. I am getting upwards of ten or better firings out of my brass since I am working them very little. Money well spent to set up your dies to exactly fit your rifles..