Universal Iron sights.

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

I have a hard time wanting to buy a gun that doesn't have an option for iron sights. First of all, I like shooting with irons, second of all I like to have the option in case my optic fails. We could sit and argue how reliable optics have gotten, cause they have gotten pretty darn good, but I just can't escape my need for the reassurance of irons. Most hunting rifles nowadays don't have irons because not many average customers want or need them, but there are still good options such as scout and dangerous game rifles. However, I wanted to be able to mount irons on anything.

This has led me to try and develop a design for universal iron sights that could be mounted on virtually any model rifle that has a threaded barrel. I'm not sure if it is something I could get going, but there is a machine shop down the road from me that I wonder if I could get to make a prototype if I can get the design modeled out in a CAD program.

Anyway, that is the idea, and I am curious if universal iron sights seem like a useful idea to anyone else?

 

[TexasLife]

I don't think using the threads on the muzzle would be a good idea! If there was an indention of some sort so the front sight would stay at 12 o'clock then ok. Next you would need to contend with different barrel diameters as for the need to extend rearward from threads to barrel diameter. OR do you flatten a surface towards the muzzle like gas blocks with screws on the bottom for holding. Where and how would you contend with the rear sight mounting? Are you having an optic and would need to remove it to mount the rear sight? Another issue is the difference between to height of the receiver and the muzzle? Larger diameter barrel will give you closer to receiver height than a sporter barrel would. Now it's not just manufacturers of various rifles, but different models. Any more food for thought?

 

[TexasLife]

I'm verbally horrible, but mechanically sound! I'm your techno go to person! I don't have tunnel vision like many other smiths would.

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

I think you have some good points. I wasn't sure if mounting on a threaded barrel would present an issue or not, I am not aware of anyone who has tried, so I figured the only way to find out might be to try it. It would have to be carefully shimmed to line up 12 o' clock, but I am not sure that it would stay there, so yes, that would be a concern. If that didn't work, I'd be back to the drawing board.

If mounting on muzzle threads did work, I assumed it would not matter what barrel contour, because the sight would always be mounted on the threads which are centered with the bore, but that doesn't account for the differences in possible receiver height from gun to gun. I figured I could handle this by having different front sight post heights that can be swapped.

As far as back sight, I am basically going to un-optimistcally assume it will not be possible to mount an optic at the same time. It could be hard to design a back sight that would co-mount and fit next to a scope. Also if the sight and optic have to have drastically different points of vertical eye alignment to stay out of each others line of sight, then you end up with a less than ideal cheek weld on one or the other. So basically I think I want the irons to line up roughly the same height as the optic, which means they wouldn't mount at the same time. Ideally with this set up, the irons could be removed and installed without losing zero, if not, I think it could put a damper on how useful the irons would be as backup, relegating them to only being useful if you want to keep the irons on as a dedicated sighting method for some time.

This also reminds me that in order to be somewhat universal, but obviously not entirely universal, the rear sight would have to mount via picatinny rail.

This idea is still in early stages and I may never get around to it, but it is fun to try to come up with a solution.

 

[TexasLife]

I seem to always be at the drawing board.

 

[KinleyWater]

I respectfully decline to concur with my learned colleague. While it has been many years since I worked as a machinist, IIRC, getting the front sight to 12 is a matter of properly timing your threads (shims do work). As for different diameter barrels - well, that's why they use adapters for suppressors. To that end, a QD system may be worth considering. As for the rear sight; mounting it to a rail would work, but also, consider integrating the rear sight into a set of rings. So, what I am visualizing is an aperture cut into the base of the rings, so you would look beneath where the scope is to use them. Where I think the rub comes is front sight height, which would need to be significantly adjustable to match any rear sight, no matter how it was implemented.

I suppose, if you don't mind a short sight radius, you could make the entire system a part of the scope base/ mount. A simple screw system would allow you to adjust it, and you could have it cowitness with the scope. Yes, now that I think of it, that's how I would do it - a scope base system that had a fixed front and adjustable rear. Cowitness or not, it doesn't matter. If it does, great, if not, make the scope QD, so you can just pull it off. As long as the base system is coaxial to the bore, you should be able to develop a reasonable degree of accuracy, and by making it a scope base, you bypass all the issues with different diameter barrels, etc.

Just promise me I'll get a sample if you make them. We can talk patents later.

 

[TexasLife]

I respectfully decline to concur with my learned colleague. While it has been many years since I worked as a machinist, IIRC, getting the front sight to 12 is a matter of properly timing your threads (shims do work). As for different diameter barrels - well, that's why they use adapters for suppressors. To that end, a QD system may be worth considering. As for the rear sight; mounting it to a rail would work, but also, consider integrating the rear sight into a set of rings. So, what I am visualizing is an aperture cut into the base of the rings, so you would look beneath where the scope is to use them. Where I think the rub comes is front sight height, which would need to be significantly adjustable to match any rear sight, no matter how it was implemented.

I suppose, if you don't mind a short sight radius, you could make the entire system a part of the scope base/ mount. A simple screw system would allow you to adjust it, and you could have it cowitness with the scope. Yes, now that I think of it, that's how I would do it - a scope base system that had a fixed front and adjustable rear. Cowitness or not, it doesn't matter. If it does, great, if not, make the scope QD, so you can just pull it off. As long as the base system is coaxial to the bore, you should be able to develop a reasonable degree of accuracy, and by making it a scope base, you bypass all the issues with different diameter barrels, etc.

Just promise me I'll get a sample if you make them. We can talk patents later.

Either you'll need high rings and/or a small objective just to see under, but doable. Self-timed so no need to time threads if you're not want to add any muzzle device without having very long threads at the muzzle. If the barrel has an index mark for tdc (ie, 12 o' clock), then have a similar mark on the front sight base. If your firearm is level then add a level into the fsb.

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

KinleyWater, just adding sights to the scope base is probably a good idea for last ditch sights since it would be relatively easy. I don't have the experience to say how much more difficult it would be to shoot accurately with the short sight radius but it would mean you can shoot again if you had a scope failure. I wonder if you could help compensate for the small sight radius by using a very small aperture?

I have actually come across some iron sight scope/scope ring combos before. I forget which brand of scope rings it was, but it was something from EuroOptic, and I also know that there are ACOGs that have backup irons on top of them. The short sight radius was what originally put me off about some of those, but it is better than nothing for sure.

Now that I'm thinking about just attaching to a scope base though, that begs the question of whether you could just put some AR-15 style BUIS sights on it. I'm not sure where they land height wise, but they could at the very least be an easy way to test how difficult it would be to shoot well with that sight radius.

If I were to go the route of attaching to the scope base, one way to increase the sight radius would be to have a longer scope base. Something like a scout almost, but it would just overhand the barrel instead of resting on it, assuming it actually can overhang a distance without needing the extra support to be sturdy under recoil. This also means that you would have to make extended scope bases for different rifles, which means it is not so universal anymore. Perhaps you could make a front sight extender that puts the front sight out farther, but doesn't actually add rail space, it just clamps on to the existing rail.

 

[TexasLife]

Here's a thunk! How about front sights on a barrel tuner? I've never used 1, but what about the possibilities? That would put the fs out towards the end.

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

What's a barrel tuner?

 

[TexasLife]

What's a barrel tuner?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...97BFD7CCDEB706DBA87697BFD7CCDEB706D&FORM=VIRE

 

[Guy Miner]

What's a barrel tuner?

This is a popular barrel tuner among precision shooters:

EC Tuner V2 | Cortina Precision

Over a decade ago, I introduced the original EC Tuner. The EC Tuner provided an easy and efficient way to adjust your tuner because it was a tool less design. The original EC Tuner uses tension screws to create enough drag that the tuner will stay put after adjusting, but still allows the user...

www.shootsmallgroups.com

Eric Cortina knows what he's about.

Guy

 

[TexasLife]

This is a popular barrel tuner among precision shooters:

EC Tuner V2 | Cortina Precision

Over a decade ago, I introduced the original EC Tuner. The EC Tuner provided an easy and efficient way to adjust your tuner because it was a tool less design. The original EC Tuner uses tension screws to create enough drag that the tuner will stay put after adjusting, but still allows the user...

www.shootsmallgroups.com

Eric Cortina knows what he's about.

Guy

I've watched his stuff before. The link was just for example.

 

[KinleyWater]

Perhaps you could make a front sight extender that puts the front sight out farther, but doesn't actually add rail space, it just clamps on to the existing rail.

2-piece rail with sliding arms (similar to how a table expands) with positive lock. Of course, any slop would result in very poor accuracy. Might be able to make it more rigid if you put some thought into it. In any case, you'd likely only be adding an addition 2-4 inches. Might make all the difference, or it might make none.