VELOCITY - VELOCITY - VELOCITY - VELOCITY

[JDMAG]

I am so glad you put it that way. I was trying to figure a way to put this in laymans terms so that some of the other guys on here could understand us as well! Thank you!

 

[Richracer1]

Do I get college credit for reading this topic?

 

[bullet]

OK – Newton’s creation of calculus is the driver for all of this. Let’s start with some definitions:

v = dx/dt
a = dv/dt

By introducing an object’s mass, Newton generated his laws of motion. Where we are concerned:

Momentum p = mv
Force F = dp/dt = m*dv/dt = ma

Work done by an object is the force it exerts through a distance, or F*dx. After some algebra rearrangement, energy is found by integrating this product and the result is

E = ½*m*v^2

This square of the velocity is significant. A 165gr bullet at 3000 fps has more energy than a 180gr bullet at 2800 fps, but the heavier bullet has more momentum because momentum is directly proportional to velocity, rather than its square.

This difference between energy and momentum is a contributor to all kinds of downrange performance, including retained energy and penetration. So, bullet correctly states that velocity is a critical component of a projectile’s energy. However, in terms of their effect on an animal, energy and momentum are sort of apples and oranges.

Yes they are apples and oranges sold in the same market. Very good and I agree, that is why I have a 30-06 trying to have a marriage of energy and momentum in a balance by trying to get both to work together. I don't want mostly momentum nor do I want mostly energy. I want as much of both as I can get so as to compliment each other in creating a devastating result from beginning to end of terminal ballistics. This involves the velocity, energy, and momentum of a correct and well made mass (the bullet).

If I take a old 1965 VW and move that little car at a 1,000 miles an hour I would have tremendous energy and if I hit a house with that VW moving that fast I would tear up a hole lot of that house and the VW would be in a thousand little parts. Now that is energy in fact to much energy for the construction of the mass and it comes apart and it's ability to penetrate is compromised by the energy.

If I took a Steam Locomotive and moved that big thing at 60 miles an hour (it and the VW having about the same energy) it would not only destroy parts of that house but would go all the way through that house and out the other side for a long, long ways. Now that is momentum and it takes the mass and moves it deep into the target if not all the way out the other side.

So, I want energy and momentum in fairly close balance with good bullet construction so as to create a devastating wound channel. Also, momentum so as to carry the well made bullet that is designed to handle the energy that the velocity is responsible for, so I can make a big hole letting air in and blood out, while breaking bone and compromising the skeletal and nervous system, while penetrating as far as possible, if not all the way out the other side.

High velocity small bullets are really over come by energy. And the Old slow moving big slugs are over come with momentum. I love the 30 cal. cartridges along with some other cal's for creating a close balance of both and the results in the field are consistent and devastating as many of you know and can testify due to your experiences.

 

[Greg Nolan]

This is like the encyclopedia on hunting calibers and bullets.
I think everybody agrees to most of the technology but may disagree on the priority of each element in the formula. This is mine:
High Velocity X Large Caliber AccuBond = (Dead X) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

 

[Desert Fox]

Lot's of folks are sold on velocity. Even the manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon. I guess velocity sell. As for me, I like my cartridge velocity range between 2800 to 3000 fps. My varmint rifles goes a bit more, but not by much. This is the reason why I would never own a 220 Swift, 22-250 or 264 Win Mag... way too fast for my liking.

My 338 Ackley Improved, pushing the 300 SMK at an anemic velocity of 2825 fps, will have enough velocity and energy (1267 fps-1070 ft-lb) to clobber an elk, at over a mile. Not that I'm going to shoot that far but, it's comforting to know that the cartridge has that capability.

 

[FOTIS]

My 338 Ackley Improved, pushing the 300 SMK at an anemic velocity of 2825 fps, will have enough velocity and energy (1267 fps-1070 ft-lb) to clobber an elk, at over a mile. Not that I'm going to shoot that far but, it's comforting to know that the cartridge has that capability.

What is the exact chambering and load?

 

[bullet]

This is like the encyclopedia on hunting calibers and bullets.
I think everybody agrees to most of the technology but may disagree on the priority of each element in the formula. This is mine:
High Velocity X Large Caliber AccuBond = (Dead X) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

Greg, I truly like your simple solution and one thing for sure it will work, yes a very pragmatic approach. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Yes Richracer, you may earn the following college credits:
1 credit in practical physics for reading this thread.
1 credit for a practical physics lab for chronographing your loads.
1 more in the physics applied to biology for shooting a critter with an AccuBond 8)

 

[bullet]

Yes Richracer, you may earn the following college credits:
1 credit in practical physics for reading this thread.
1 credit for a practical physics lab for chronographing your loads.
1 more in the physics applied to biology for shooting a critter with an AccuBond 8)

That is so cool Antelope Sniper, I think if Richracer would do the above are give evidence that the above has all ready been accomplished that we make up an official looking diploma "Nosler Forum Practical Physics Applied." :lol: :lol: 8)

 

[Richracer1]

Where's my degree!!!!!!!!

1) I've more than proved I've been reading this topic by my replies

2) I can provide velocities for 98% of my loads

3) Do a search for my posts and you'll see pics and/or stories of big game animals that have succumbed to either a Fail Safe, Partition or an AccuBond. I can provide a list of what animal by each bullet if necessary.

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[bullet]

NOSLER FORUM UNIVERSITY

To all to whom these letters shall come Greeting
The Board of Governors of Nosler Forum University on the
recommendation of the faculty by virtue of the
Authority in them vested have conferred upon

Richracer1
who has satisfactorily completed the requirements therefor the degree of

DOCTOR OF APPLIED NOSLER FORUM PHYSICS

December sixth, two thousand and eight
with all the rights and privileges pertaining thereto pursuant to the Nosler
Forum Thread of the school of applied physics thread.
Given at Nosler Forum Rifle Thread On applied physcis, USA.

President - Nosler#4,
Board of Governers - JD388, Bullet,
Chancellor - Pop,



Please print the above degree and hang on your wall :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[JD338]

APPROVED.

JD338

 

[Richracer1]

Y'all are killing. That has to be the funniest thing on here in long time.

Thanks guys, I'm firing up the printer now. I'm sure there are many more names besides mine that should be included!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FOTIS]

Who knows...someone might see this & believe it ad Obama might appoint us to office!

 

[longwinters]

:twisted: Yeah, but without mass velocity is only a theory.........

Long

 

[bullet]

:twisted: Yeah, but without mass velocity is only a theory.........

Long

Since there is mass and mass is, which is self evident, velocity is not a theory so it can not be discussed in the abstract, unless one prefers to ignore the reality of mass and assumes that mass is only and illusion which one can not have with out reality and the reality is that there is mass so velocity is not a theory.

So it would be incoherent to have a discussion about velocity being a theory if mass is, which it is. So one should have a coherent discussion about velocity knowing that he is actually dealing in the realm of reality, the reality of mass. :shock:

Now if anyone questions this, just get about 20 steps in front of me and I will throw a hard ball (mass) at about 80-85 miles an hour and you tell me if velocity is a theory when I hit you up side the head and OH!!! did you feel the mass, was it present? :lol:

 

[FOTIS]

:twisted: Yeah, but without mass velocity is only a theory.........

Long

Yeah that is true....My 416 Bee would do nothing at 3100 fps without the 330 gr. HV bullet!! 8)

 

[Hegland]

Sorry guys if I sounded "elitist."

I guess that's the way I keep things straight in my own head, and threw it out there for anybody else that wants to look at it. Just another angle.

 

[bullet]

Sorry guys if I sounded "elitist."

I guess that's the way I keep things straight in my own head, and threw it out there for anybody else that wants to look at it. Just another angle.

Hey, no problem, we are having fun man and you certainly have a right to pitch another angle out there. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Sorry guys if I sounded "elitist."

Elitist??
Guess I missed that. :?
I just thought you were adding the "official" math to what I had said.

As for apples and oranges, I like to stuff my turkeys with apples, and a nice orange sause goes nice on duck. :grin: