Vit. N135 for .358 Win

[257 Ackley]

Has anyone used N135 with a 200 grain spitzer bullet? I have info for the 225 grain Partition, but nothing on a 200 grain bullet.

What does anyone have using R15 for both bullet weights as well? These will be shot in my BLR, so I'm not necessarily going to be able to shoot as hot as some of you with bolt loads.

 

[FOTIS]

Cartridge : .358 Win.
Bullet : .358, 200, Hornady SPSP 3510
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.780 inch or 70.61 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder : Vihtavuori N135

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 105 43.20 2283 2315 34472 5644 95.9 1.292
-09.0 107 43.68 2309 2367 35651 5703 96.3 1.274
-08.0 108 44.16 2334 2420 36875 5760 96.7 1.257
-07.0 109 44.64 2360 2474 38147 5815 97.1 1.238
-06.0 110 45.12 2386 2528 39468 5868 97.4 1.220
-05.0 111 45.60 2411 2582 40842 5918 97.8 1.202
-04.0 113 46.08 2437 2637 42265 5965 98.1 1.184
-03.0 114 46.56 2462 2693 43756 6010 98.4 1.166
-02.0 115 47.04 2488 2749 45300 6052 98.7 1.149
-01.0 116 47.52 2513 2805 46911 6092 98.9 1.132
+00.0 117 48.00 2539 2862 48587 6129 99.1 1.115
+01.0 118 48.48 2564 2920 50331 6163 99.3 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 120 48.96 2590 2978 52152 6194 99.5 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 121 49.44 2615 3036 54049 6222 99.6 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 122 49.92 2640 3095 56030 6247 99.7 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
+05.0 123 50.40 2665 3155 58095 6268 99.8 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 117 48.00 2656 3132 60158 5845 100.0 1.031 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 117 48.00 2371 2497 38794 6059 93.4 1.225

 

[257 Ackley]

Pop -
thanks for the quick response. Does this say something about how exciting our lives are, that we are doing this on a Saturday night? :lol:

I think this may be just about the perfect burn rate powder. I found a can of it a few months ago thinking about the 358 Win.

 

[DrMike]

Ackley,

That will certainly fill the case. There should be better fills for the case, I should think.

 

[SJB358]

Getting over 2600FPS for a 200 grain bullet is pretty good. I would imagine that would be an awesome load for whitetails in forests and still be able to reach out there and hammer them. Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

Anytime buddy. My pleasure to help out.

 

[257 Ackley]

I loaded 5 different amounts from 44 grains to 46 grains last night to try. The 46 grain load was right at the bottom of the neck. Going to start with the light loads and watch for pressure signs as I go. I may have to go to a little faster burning powder like 4895 if this doesn't work. Sure wish R12 was still available. :x

 

[SJB358]

It will be nice to see what you are getting out of the 200 grainers. It would be a pretty potent load to get 2600 plus out of the 358. Wonder how it would do with the 225's? Man, with all of us loading for the 358 again, you would think it get a little boost in bullets and rifles available for it. I think the 338Fed stepped on its toes a little. Scotty

 

[Jeff Olsen]

Howdy!

A couple comments... first, someone correct me if I'm wrong but a BLR should actually be as strong as any bolt gun; it's essentially a bolt gun with a lever to move the bolt, with a rotating front lug set like an AR has, sort of.

I have a BLR in .325 WSM. That's some pressure there.

Second... I get 2640 fps with RL7 and 200-gn Hornady's. Might be worth a try.

Third, 200 SP's have a dismal BC; like .242 or something. I'm not real big on BC, but I've shot my .358 out to 400 yards quite a bit and that bullet really moves around a lot in the wind.

The 225-gn Partition at 2500 or so fps is a FAR superior load at longer ranges from a .358. It has an excellent BC, in the .45 range, and retains 1800 fps out to 400 yards as well as being MUCH less squirrely in the wind.

Just my observations... love my .358!!!!

 

[SJB358]

I think the 225 will be grain of choice for the 358. I know they carry very well way out there and should have excellent terminal ballistics. The BLR does seem to be a BIG AR15 style rotating bolt, and they handle some rounds up to 60KPSI pretty easily. Scotty

 

[257 Ackley]

Jeff -
Not concerned about the strength of the action with the BLR; my problem is how deep I had to seat the bullet to fit in the clip.

Is the 2640 (R17 load) you got with your 358 or your 325? I do have a can of R17 that I bought to try in my Ackley and .260. Just thought it would be too slow with the capacity of the 358 case.

I agree on the 200 hornady bullet not being very good for sectional density and bucking the wind. This load will be for deer in thick wooded areas of NW Minnesota where most shots are 25 to 100 yards. If I drag it along for moose hunts in Ontario, I will use the 225 Partition. The reason I talked my brother out of the rifle was to have a back-up to take to Ontario and a rifle my son could use for moose instead of his 7mm-08.

Do you crimp your bullets for your BLR? I appreciate the feedback from you guys that have loaded for the 358 or BLR's. It is fun to have something new and different to load for.

 

[DrMike]

257 Ackley,

It is not necessary to crimp bullets on your 358 BLR. I do crimp some of mine, but only because I have the Lee crimp die. I can't honestly say that it improves ballistics or groups. I just do it because the die is set up for my 356.

51 grains of RL17 will fill the case to 113% of capacity if you are using a 225 grain Partition, which is pretty tight. On the other hand, that utilises less capacity than the N135 with a 200 grain Hornady.

 

[FOTIS]

Here you go 225 NP with all possible powder combinations.


Cartridge : .358 Win.
Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler PART SP 44800
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.780 inch or 70.61 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 58000 psi, or 399 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

76 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon BL-C2 107.6 50.4 3.27 2478 96.7 58000 7495 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 104.7 48.4 3.14 2476 97.7 58000 7304 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 96.5 42.5 2.76 2452 100.0 58000 6570 1.035 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 110.0 48.7 3.15 2449 98.2 56304 7152 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 99.4 46.6 3.02 2445 99.0 58000 6988 1.034 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 104.1 48.1 3.12 2442 97.1 58000 7183 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 99.0 43.9 2.84 2441 99.6 58000 6790 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 105.3 43.9 2.84 2441 99.6 58000 6790 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 106.1 47.5 3.08 2441 96.8 58000 7136 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 103.2 47.4 3.07 2440 96.9 58000 7127 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 98.9 45.4 2.94 2440 98.9 58000 6945 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 98.8 45.4 2.94 2439 98.9 58000 6936 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 110.0 46.5 3.01 2438 98.9 57444 6974 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
SF-033 fl 100.1 43.9 2.85 2437 100.0 58000 6242 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 109.9 48.7 3.16 2437 95.1 58000 7194 1.034 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0832 104.3 47.2 3.06 2435 99.6 58000 6636 1.029 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 96.9 44.5 2.89 2432 99.4 58000 6806 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 101.9 47.0 3.04 2431 97.8 58000 6979 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 104.8 45.2 2.93 2428 96.9 58000 7020 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 105.8 46.4 3.01 2422 96.9 58000 7029 1.053 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 109.7 50.2 3.25 2421 92.3 58000 7177 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 103.0 47.5 3.08 2421 97.7 58000 6893 1.053 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 107.9 49.8 3.23 2419 94.8 58000 6980 1.035 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 108.5 44.3 2.87 2417 98.8 58000 6835 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 102.6 41.6 2.69 2415 100.0 58000 6368 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 104.7 45.8 2.97 2411 99.5 58000 6609 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 100.9 46.5 3.01 2406 97.6 58000 6750 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 104.4 43.4 2.81 2404 100.0 58000 6332 1.055 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 110.0 44.2 2.86 2403 99.4 50451 6977 1.083
Norma 200 93.2 41.4 2.68 2399 100.0 58000 6201 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1/NP ~approximation 93.2 41.4 2.68 2399 100.0 58000 6201 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 110.0 47.8 3.09 2389 98.2 53355 6984 1.071 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 99.0 43.9 2.85 2388 97.6 58000 6651 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 110.0 47.2 3.06 2382 93.2 52000 7209 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 110.0 47.2 3.06 2382 93.2 52000 7209 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 110.0 47.2 3.06 2382 93.2 52000 7209 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0733 99.6 45.6 2.95 2380 96.9 58000 6586 1.050 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 109.3 45.9 2.98 2380 99.4 58000 6423 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 96.8 44.3 2.87 2379 97.6 58000 6586 1.050 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 105.2 44.5 2.88 2379 97.4 58000 6591 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 96.0 41.9 2.71 2377 98.4 58000 6474 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 110.0 44.7 2.89 2375 99.7 48992 6935 1.132
Lovex-D0731 99.5 45.5 2.95 2374 96.2 58000 6577 1.050 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 110.0 45.7 2.96 2373 95.5 52277 7032 1.071 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 110.0 47.2 3.06 2371 93.7 50818 7192 1.092
IMR 4198 101.2 39.0 2.53 2370 100.0 58000 5841 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 96.6 38.8 2.51 2369 100.0 58000 5797 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 49.6 3.21 2367 91.6 52063 7310 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0601 108.0 45.1 2.92 2367 95.3 58000 6603 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 104.9 42.1 2.73 2362 100.0 58000 5987 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 107.1 45.5 2.95 2360 95.8 58000 6533 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder- 7 95.6 39.7 2.57 2359 100.0 58000 5912 1.061 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 110.0 45.5 2.95 2356 96.0 53514 6797 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 99.8 41.9 2.72 2353 100.0 58000 5964 1.059 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 105.9 45.5 2.95 2351 95.5 58000 6474 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 110.0 43.2 2.80 2346 99.9 55620 6059 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 97.1 39.1 2.54 2340 99.3 58000 5994 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0621 110.0 46.0 2.98 2337 95.4 50482 6856 1.108
Hodgdon H380 110.0 48.3 3.13 2328 90.3 49955 7006 1.107
IMR 4320 110.0 46.5 3.01 2327 92.8 50812 6817 1.090
Vihtavuori N120 99.1 38.9 2.52 2326 100.0 58000 5379 1.062 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 110.0 48.8 3.16 2325 91.8 47690 7147 1.115
Hodgdon H414 110.0 50.3 3.26 2324 86.2 49225 7123 1.107
SNPE Vectan SP 11 110.0 48.8 3.16 2320 91.7 47466 7124 1.117
Norma 203 old 110.0 47.8 3.09 2318 93.8 46195 7097 1.137
Hodgdon H4227 91.4 35.9 2.33 2316 100.0 58000 5402 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 110.0 45.7 2.96 2315 96.1 48971 6708 1.107
ADI AR 2208 110.0 45.9 2.97 2311 92.3 50675 6736 1.099
IMR 4227 90.5 35.6 2.31 2304 100.0 58000 5365 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 110.0 45.7 2.96 2303 92.2 50115 6711 1.104
Lovex-S0531 92.1 35.5 2.30 2280 100.0 58000 5127 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 110.0 44.6 2.89 2277 92.1 48393 6563 1.124
Somchem S355 110.0 46.2 2.99 2264 92.5 44484 6813 1.163

 

[SJB358]

Thanks for the data POP. That is always helpful for us guys. Looks like W748 is a good one too. So many choices for the 358 makes it hard to decide on a few. Scotty

 

[257 Ackley]

DrMike -
Thanks for the info on R17. I never thought it would be a powder to consider for the 358, but may come into the picture now. The fact that I don't have to worry about temperature sensitivity with R17 helps. For me it's not usually a problem since I am going from "kinda warm" to cold for temperature variations.

Pop -
Thanks for the info on the 225 Partition. That is the bullet of choice for any serious hunting with this caliber. It is amazing how many powder choices there are with similar velocities.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

257 Ackly,

Oops! You misread my post. My 2640 fps load uses RL7, not RL17.

If you look in a Barnes book, it should show 42 grains for a 200-gn bullet as max load of RL7. It used to, anyway. I was using RL7 already for pistol bullets, and it ROCKS for that, and decided to try it for the 200's since I was running out of case capacity with everything else before I got the speeds I was hoping to see.

It is my most adventerous reloading quest so far <grin>. Because Barnes' 42-grain max is WAY over the Nosler book max, and I ended up a few grains above the BARNES book.

My primers are round and my brass lasts 12-15 reloads with this load. It is NOT a "hot" load in my rifle as far as I can tell.

I use IMR4895 with 225's, as it's the only powder that got me to 2500 fps. I have shot some fantastic groups with the 225 Sierra, and the 225 Partition shoots pretty good too. I killed a deer with the Partition and another 4-5 with the 200 Horn load. As well as a factory Silvertip load.

I'm leaning towards standardizing on the Partition load since it shoots so much better at longer ranges, but DAMN that Hornady does a good job on deer! Not one complaint with that bullet.

I have not messed with crimping for .358, but I sure thought about it after a bullet got pushed out by a comressed load, got stuck in the rifling of my BLR, and then when I tried to eject the round, the bullet pulled out and dumped a caseload of stick powder into the clockworks of that BLR! What a gawd-awful mess that was to clean up.

 

[257 Ackley]

Jeff -
Thanks for clarifying the powder . Too many nights working on a project and looking at computer screens :roll: I don't reload for any pistols, so there has never been any powder that fast burning in my arsenol. I do appreciate the info on the 4895. It looks like a powder I will need to buy before I start working up loads with the 225G Partition. Were you using standard large rifle primers for all your loads?

 

[DrMike]

IMR4895 is a great powder for the 358. It is hard to beat the velocities, case fill ratios and performance of IMR4895. If I were limited to only one powder for the 358, this would certainly be near the top of my list.

 

[SJB358]

Joel, I am thinking I am going to try IMR4895, AA2520 and H322 in the 358 when I get home. I already have some of the H322 and it meters really well. There are some good loads already listed for it. Hope you have some luck, I am sure whatever works with yours should work decent in my BLR. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Scotty,

When you are considering powders for the 358, you've listed some good ones. Don't neglect some of the newer powders such as 10X and Benchmark. I am getting some excellent results that merit more careful examination. W748 yields some very fine velocities and good groups, also. Generally, you can work with any of the powders in the intermediate burning rate category, but it almost appears that the powders on the faster end of that category of powders are yielding good to excellent results.