Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
I would be happy to give you the balance of what I had in the 250 Accubonds but I shot some varmits with them at 1500 fps! Sorry.
What's your minumum
- Thread starter onesonek
- Start date
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,249
- 568
Tee he he................... I was just kiddin.............. thanks though OT3! :mrgreen:
Hi Guy,Guy Miner":98vpesx6 said:
We sometimes take elk with smaller calibres, like the .257 wby. Heck, I saw a cow shot by a butcher with a 22 mag. I won't enter the argument as to whether you can kill with small calibres, of course you can. But, I recommend at least a 7mm MAG. I am not really a 30-06 fan, but it is enough gun. My concern is that the shot may not be a perfect broadside or may be at 300 yds. So, I ask our hunters to have 2000 ft lbs of knockdown at the edge of their comfort zone for distance. IE, 2000 ft. lbs at 300 yds.
I have seen elk shot and run off for huge distances, and then die without a much of a blood trail. At my ranch, a wound counts as a kill. So, I will allow smaller rifles if the shooter is good enough and if they fully understand that my job is to get them a shot under 300 yds.
Hardpan
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,836
- 6,312
Hardpan - thanks - I greatly appreciate the input from someone who has seen so many elk killed as you. And I make no secret that my whole elk hunting experience has put but one set of antlers on the wall, with a 7mm Rem mag and a 175 Nosler Partition.
I've had some terrific elk hunts, but have only pulled the trigger once while hunting those magnificent beasts!
Regards, Guy
I've had some terrific elk hunts, but have only pulled the trigger once while hunting those magnificent beasts!
Regards, Guy
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,249
- 568
I am going to agree with Hardpan compleatly on his post:
Having watch a fair few Elk being shot by hunters with 30/06 /7mm Mag type guns over the years that were fired at under less than ideal conditions and hit in less than text book areas of their bodys.
I can tell you from experence that knocking a big bull elk back off his feet again once he is on a mission to put as much country as he possible can between you and he . Is not really a job for either one of those guns anymore, and to flatten a 800lb Elk or Bear or Moose after you have wounded it with a light rifle is more of a job for a 250gr Nosler traveling along at 2500fps or faster!
I am guessing that a 25-20 will knock one flat, right at the butt of the ear, every time. But I am not going to start hunting them with one. I have shot 8-900 lb moose more than a few times with my .243 and they droped right into the tracks they were standing in with a broadside head shots and their skulls sound like a "bag of bones" when you lift on an antler because it will explode in their brain cavity, and compeatly break up the skullplate most times! But it sure as hell is NOT an elk rifle. They are all good until you have to take a less than desireable shot , and from where we stand that is more often than not, and then; is when the bigger gun, makes all the difference in the world.
I think before a guy decides he is comfortable hunting with a gun, that you have to count on perfect conditions; Or it most probably is going to involve a long adventure of tracking it down; to get the animal. I would think about the old addage some famous African hunter said about hunting game over 500lbs.................. "make sure you use enough gun" it will save you alot of tracking, and heartache. It is fun to talk about only taking perfect shots or just walking away, and in that case either of those calibers will work nicely .
But from the guides side of the fence I am guessing 10% will stick to that theory and 90% let fly!
Many times over the years, and especially when hunting bears, the clients would say I want to get this hunt over with today, and when we see the animal I will shoot first, and then you shoot too. So even though they had given me the green light to fire, I prefered to let them do it all, if they could. But many times because of the excitement of the moment, and the preasure of having a small fortune tied up in the hunts, they would NOT get it done correctly at all. If they would hit the game hard enough; that I felt it was in really big trouble, I would make sure they did the rest of it themselves, and that is the best way . However MANY times it didnt work like that at all; and they would knock it down; and it would get back up; or wound it so poorly, that I knew instantly that we where now in a mess; and would actually fire at the game, to help get it off its feet before it got into the alders. Now a poor hit; will never be made up with a big gun.Same as a new Flyrod wont make you a great caster; as a poor hit, is a poor hit, no matter what but a caliber you use. Use the correct size for the game your hunting, is the proper way to attack the problem . I think the years have proven, that starts at about a .338 for elk hunting; the minute things start to go haywire!
Good Luck and good elk hunting/ "use enough gun"
Having watch a fair few Elk being shot by hunters with 30/06 /7mm Mag type guns over the years that were fired at under less than ideal conditions and hit in less than text book areas of their bodys.
I can tell you from experence that knocking a big bull elk back off his feet again once he is on a mission to put as much country as he possible can between you and he . Is not really a job for either one of those guns anymore, and to flatten a 800lb Elk or Bear or Moose after you have wounded it with a light rifle is more of a job for a 250gr Nosler traveling along at 2500fps or faster!
I am guessing that a 25-20 will knock one flat, right at the butt of the ear, every time. But I am not going to start hunting them with one. I have shot 8-900 lb moose more than a few times with my .243 and they droped right into the tracks they were standing in with a broadside head shots and their skulls sound like a "bag of bones" when you lift on an antler because it will explode in their brain cavity, and compeatly break up the skullplate most times! But it sure as hell is NOT an elk rifle. They are all good until you have to take a less than desireable shot , and from where we stand that is more often than not, and then; is when the bigger gun, makes all the difference in the world.
I think before a guy decides he is comfortable hunting with a gun, that you have to count on perfect conditions; Or it most probably is going to involve a long adventure of tracking it down; to get the animal. I would think about the old addage some famous African hunter said about hunting game over 500lbs.................. "make sure you use enough gun" it will save you alot of tracking, and heartache. It is fun to talk about only taking perfect shots or just walking away, and in that case either of those calibers will work nicely .
But from the guides side of the fence I am guessing 10% will stick to that theory and 90% let fly!
Many times over the years, and especially when hunting bears, the clients would say I want to get this hunt over with today, and when we see the animal I will shoot first, and then you shoot too. So even though they had given me the green light to fire, I prefered to let them do it all, if they could. But many times because of the excitement of the moment, and the preasure of having a small fortune tied up in the hunts, they would NOT get it done correctly at all. If they would hit the game hard enough; that I felt it was in really big trouble, I would make sure they did the rest of it themselves, and that is the best way . However MANY times it didnt work like that at all; and they would knock it down; and it would get back up; or wound it so poorly, that I knew instantly that we where now in a mess; and would actually fire at the game, to help get it off its feet before it got into the alders. Now a poor hit; will never be made up with a big gun.Same as a new Flyrod wont make you a great caster; as a poor hit, is a poor hit, no matter what but a caliber you use. Use the correct size for the game your hunting, is the proper way to attack the problem . I think the years have proven, that starts at about a .338 for elk hunting; the minute things start to go haywire!
Good Luck and good elk hunting/ "use enough gun"
nvbroncrider
Handloader
- Aug 20, 2011
- 3,085
- 4
Very well said. Some of us are really good with words and can get our point across concisely and correctly. That's kinda what I was trying to say but my use of words didn't come out right.
