What's your minumum

[nvbroncrider]

This is an interesting topic, because it has so many factors. In my opinion though I think it totally depends on the person. First it depends on what your hunting, what range your at what your capabillites are as a rifleman, and finally what your comfortable with. I would much rather have a .243 or a .257 for elk than a .338RUM. But I have my reasons for that. First of all I would be using premium heavy for caliber bullets loaded up at max charges, second these rifles would be shooting at least MOA and third I wouldn't take a shot beyond 100 maybe 150 yards if the situation was right. But I would have confidence in my equipment and I would know exactly were the bullet was hitting before I squoze the trigger. With a .338RUM yes I would have the abillity in the cartidge to shoot any North American game at 500 yards, but I as the shooter could not be accurate with that rifle. So my thoughts on this topic are: What's your maximum? I would much rather be selective and put an animal down with one shot than get a cannon that will take anything down and wound an animal because I can't do my part. My ideal weapon for North America is a 338-06 or 338-06AI, .35 Whelen or a .35 Whelen AI If I had only one weapon. Although close on its heels in my opinion is a .280 or .280 AI due to it's versatility.

 

[DrMike]

The criterion given in the initial post was a minimum for elk and a minimum for deer.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Kinda got carried away and put out what came to mind sorry.

 

[DrMike]

I do like your selection of weapons for North America. I believe you are moving toward a good single rifle inventory.

 

[Oldtrader3]

From the standpoint of caliber, a .30-06, 180 or heavier Partition has killed many moose. My choice for wooded areas would be the .338 Federal, 210 gr Partition at 2600 fps for moose. For western Shiras moose, up higher and farther, I would use the .340 Weatherby

 

[big rifle man]

My question for nvbroncrider would be: your hunting Elk with your .243 and along comes the biggest 7X7 you've ever seen. He's not presenting the perfect shot that you require. Are you going to try a not so perfect shot because you have a "premium" bullet and although the distance might be a little further than you like you feel you just might be able to pull this off :?: This is where a considerably heaavier caliber would bring home the bacon.

 

[Guy Miner]

And I think that's where NVBroncrider's choice of the .338-06 as his ideal comes in.

I'd hunt elk with a smallish rifle - but it wouldn't be my first choice. Did carry the .25-06 for elk one day this season - the choice actually surprised me. My son and I got out of the truck, he grabbed the .30-06, and I think that's when it dawned on me that I'd selected a small bore rifle for elk. Ah well, it was loaded with 115 Nosler Partitions, and I'm pretty good with that rifle - so off we went.

Sadly we didn't get a shot at an elk that day. Next time I went elk hunting was a couple of months later and I was chuckling at myself for grabbing the .375 H&H Number One... Went from my "minimum" to my most powerful rifle. Pretty funny. Didn't get a shot with that one either. Doggone it!

 

[nvbroncrider]

That's part of the hunt. Sometimes you get him sometimes you don't. If it was perfectly still no wind 200 yards I was prone on a rest with a 100 gr Partition. Yes I would take the shot place that bullet in his spine no problem. Anything else I wouldn't even try it. But if you had the elk tag and you broke your stock on your primary I dang sure know I would be confident to use something smaller and less than ideal with those implications. My ideal is like Guy said either a 280AI 338-06AI or a 35 Whelen AI. But I dang sure wouldn't be afraid to take the Bob or a 243 if it meant to hunt or not to hunt.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have always felt that with taking larger game comes the responsibility of acquiring the equipment needed and the skill sets needed to be effectively assured of success. My first elk that I ever shot was a bullet failure with a 7mm Mag at about 140 yards which resulted in a lost animal. I resolved right there that this would never happen to me again because personal refusal to hunt elk with anything but a caliber that will do the job unequivocally (to my standards) and bullets that will perform predictably. Without that type of commitment by some hunters, this forum might never have been but for John Nosler's own experiences with elk bullet failure concerning a .300 Mag.

I went out and bought a Browning, Safari .338 Win Mag the next week and started learning to load for it, shoot it and learned to mentally and physically deal with the recoil, or never to hunt elk again. Those were my chosen and personal alternatives. Now, am not saying that everyone needs a .338 WM for elk hunting, but having one and using it regularly is a skill set and personal confidence builder that certainly addressed my own problem permanently.

One of the things that keeps me coming to this forum as opposed to some others is the overall practicality resident here of using appropriate caliber rifles with premium bullets for shooting larger game. For me, part of the "fair" in fair-chase is a good, well placed shot with an appropriate caliber rifle and bullet for the game being hunted.

 

[big rifle man]

Thanks Oldtrader, your words echo mine completely. As far as I am concerned, and these are my thoughts only after 52 years of hunting, a person has no business hunting Elk with a .243. I don't care what kind of bullet your usiing or how good of a shot you think you are an appropriate caliber for the game your hunting is far better than having to track an animal that you thought you had dead in your sights. You can kill an Elk with a .22 when conditions are right so I guess that means its an O.K.elk rifle. sorry to spout off but I've seen and been involved in tracking animals that were shot with an inappropriate caliber and the shot ended up where it wasn't supposed to.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Big Rifle Man, I have been hunting for as long as you have and I also shoot well enough for that not to be a factor. The issue is that stuff happens, especially during the 1/2 second that a bullet may require to fly the distance needed for a long range shot. Shooting elk with a .243 is a kid's stunt. When I get to the point that I can not shoot an elk gun, I will stop hunting elk.

I may be there now physically but I keep practicing with the .340 just in case.

 

[Guy Miner]

Oldtrader & Big Rifle Man - you guys are making me want to go elk hunting with nothing but my .25-06 & 115 gr Partitions... :mrgreen: Just because! Where are those posts from HighTopOutfitters with all the Big Bulls killed with the easy kicking .257 Weatherby? :grin:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13828&p=99594#p99594

I've only taken one bull, with a .28 cal rifle, but I can learn from others. After seeing what my .25-06 does to mule deer, I have no doubt about it being able to cleanly take elk.

Still, elk do give us a great reason to justify owning bigger rifles, and I'm guilty of that too.

Regards, Guy

 

[Charlie-NY]

I always like to leave a little room for error. I have never really considered the minimum cartridge for big game of any type. I've killed many whitetails with a 7STW and been pleased with the results even though a lesser cartridge would have worked under most scenarios. I'm currently shooting deer with a custom .308 because it's scary accurate and I'm still waiting for my 7WSM to be completed.

I have an Idaho elk trip planned for next year. I'll either bring the 7WSM or my 338 RUM. I'd take the 338RUM hands down if it were not for the break. Breaks are definitely a pain when hunting. But......... that new 300gr AccuBond would be kinda tough to get chambered into that 7WSM. :lol: :shock: :lol:

 

[Guy Miner]

Swage it down? A lot!

 

[DrMike]

What would the BC be on that bullet? Definitely take a bit of swagging.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I knew that it was a waste of perfectly good breath to say anything but I did it anyway and I don't have to track your shooting mistakes! Shooting a decent bull elk where I live is a tough assignment and a lot of work, to say nothing about it being a privilege that many people would take away from us in a minute. To flub a shot at an elk to feed a big ego just makes it worse and most likely kills an animal that maybe will be lost and could otherwise be harvested and make another hunter very happy.

Especially for me because I am 100% disabled. Despite having survived lung cancer and having lost 35 pounds, I still go to the range every week that I can and shoot my larger calibers up to .340 Bee, even after losing half my right lung! I am hoping to work my way back up to the privilege of hunting elk again someday. I can legally shoot an elk from my truck but I won't do it. If I can't stand on my feet and do it right, I won't do it. If I can take up the challenge, Nvbroncrider, you probably could avail yourself as well to shoot an appropriate caliber unless you are quadriplegic?

 

[Charlie-NY]

What would the BC be on that bullet? Definitely take a bit of swagging.

The BC of the 300gr .338 AccuBond is said to be .720. However, if I take Guy's suggestion and swage it down for use in my 7WSM, I have calculated the BC to be about 1.335. Muzzle velocity should be on par with a 22 rimfire! Kind of like a fat 7mm Whisper. :shock:

 

[DrMike]

The BC of the 300gr .338 AccuBond is said to be .720. However, if I take Guy's suggestion and swage it down for use in my 7WSM, I have calculated the BC to be about 1.335. Muzzle velocity should be on par with a 22 rimfire! Kind of like a fat 7mm Whisper.

Wow! All bullet and no powder!

 

[Oldtrader3]

I loaded some 250 gr AccuBond .338 bullets to about 1500 fps. They flew flatter than .22 rimfire with 15 grains of pistol powder and were pretty quiet, a lot quieter than my .22WMR rifle.

 

[35 Whelen]

Old trader how about I swap you some old 200 gr stuff I have for those 250gr Noslers you have developed that "quiet load" with . I think they would work just as well as the noslers for what your doin and might even be quieter???. Anything you would be shooting that load at; wouldnt know the difference; and I would be elated to get some of those Accubonds so I could try them out on a 1000 lb Moose to see how they work ???? Seams like a win/win situation to me what ya think ????