When they dont go down..... 2

cloverleaf

Handloader
Sep 10, 2006
4,359
975
Well two years ago I was practically tarred an feathered by some on this board (others were supportive and got the point of my post) when i asked a question like this. BUT I am a glutton glutton for punishment and i think there is some value to sharing and questioning our hunting experiences. As I said a couple of years ago I related an experience of a deer that was hit and didnt go down....and the implications of some choices. Thisis not about me, (when I fill my tag I will let you know) and ends differently.
The Scenario: An average size doe shot at @65 yards with a 12 Ga slug. She is standing broadside and the slug hits just high enough to miss the lungs but too low for a spine shot. At the shot she steps partially behind a tree and goes down. All that is visible to the shooter is the hind quarters. The tail twitches a few times and then all is still. The shooter waits 10 minutes and with no other sign of movement climbs down out of the stand and approaches the deer. She jumps up and runs off a ways so tracking begins. The shooter and a partner follow her through heavy cover for 30 minutes during which time they find her on two occasions. Each time the deer has laid down and has left a pool of blood. Very little blood sign is available when she moves and light is running low so tracking is as much by directon as anything. No other shots have been available. Eventually the blood trail plays out and the shooter and tracker "overshoot" the deer in some heavy brush. As they get beyond her, she runs back the way she came and up a vertical bank out of the draw. No blood trail. The trail is lost until the following day, when the doe is found in a field three miles away. The 12 guage slug is found inside the ribs- no exit wound.
So, what went wrong? My thoughts- shot placement an inch or two one ay or the other would have probably changed the outcome, but honestly with a slug and open sights that was a honest, ethical shot. My person bias against slugs comes into play here, not enough velocity to generate the needed damage, inciosistient terminal performance (i.e. How can it be that it didnt have an exit.... :shock: :twisted: ?) and difficulty shooting them consistiently. All in all, it was just one of those bad situations. Other opinions?

(Now be nice- this is about learning here....not berating some one or thumping your chest as in "that would never happen to me")

CL
 
I've seen some game travel amazing distance when the projectile passes above the lungs and below the spine. Assuming that the vena cava is not clipped and shock to the spine did not incapacitate the animal, they can demonstrate surprising determination to survive. Some shotgun/slug combinations are amazingly accurate, so it is not realistic to condemn all shotgun slugs. Sometimes, things happen beyond control of the shooter. Frankly, the shooter is to be commended for persisting until he found the animal.
 
CL, besides slug hunters, this happens with rifles, bow hunters and everyone else. I can't see anything bad about it, but I would have backed off the first time I found a bed of blood and came back later. Once you bump game, the best thing to do is let them go ahead and die. They are either going to lay down and die, such as the doe in your case, or they are going to live. Might not be a pretty answer, but I think everyone makes one of those shots. I know I have and it is a horrible experience, but it is why we call it hunting and not shooting. I don't agree with your assessment of slugs, under 100 yards, they have some serious oomph, you are talking about 1/2 to 1.25 ounces of lead. I have killed a crap ton of deer with slugs and I can't think of any I have ever recovered, I have seen some recovered, but usually from extreme quartering shots, but for the most part, if you are hunting with the best equipment possible, within your safe killing range, they are deadly. I will get my 11-87 in the next few days and shoot a group. It is just as accurate at 100 yards as the 45-70 for the most part and carries alot of influence with 1.25oz Buckhammers. Just like the 444 Marlin, 450 Marlin and 45-70, they don't need alot of speed to kill, they leave a good hole and drain alot of blood! Scotty
 
Hey Scotty,
I know folks can make them slugs work. Just not me :) I di try some of your Buck Hammers. My Mossberg didnt like them much and I idnt like the way they hammered me. I'll stand by what I said, My experience has been 50/50 wounded game to success. But thats what I was looking for discussion. Thanks guys! CL
 
No sweat buddy. Don't be disheartened, regular Foster Slugs are great killers also. Scotty
 
I have done this one year on a spike bull elk with my bow. Left and right were perfect, just to high. As he turned to run off I saw arrow sticking out both sides, with very little blood. By the time I gave him twenty minutes it was dark. We came back the next day and tracked him for well over a mile into some private ground that if we got cought on it would of been the end of my hunting career. Only found a few little drops of blood. I still feel sick about it.

I have also seen my brother do the same thing witha 25-06 and a doe here on the farm. I can't remember what bullet he was shooting, but she dropped. He put his gun up and we headed that way and she took off. lots of tracking later and we never found her either.

These things happen no matter what weapon you use. Best thing I have found is to make a good shot to start with (not saying this example was an immoral shot, I thought it was), then DON"T LET YOUR GAURD DOWN! Even if you make a good shot, and the critter is still on its feet, or moving around, give it another one or be ready to! The amount of meat you lose from two bullets will allways be less than the one critter that gets away.
 
Sounds like bad luck. Waiting 10 minutes on a deer that you can see, and that is no longer moving is ok. I can understand being surprised that the deer got up. Only "mistake" that I saw was that on the 2nd time that the deer was found with a lot of blood, I would have waited for the animal to expire. And, I likely would have looked for another killing shot. Bottom line, I cannot say anything to get worked up over. Unfortunately, I am not sure that there is a clear lesson here beyond staying alert and being prepared for the deer to run.
Hardpan
 
Tracking wounded animals is a science of it`s own. I`m a certified tracker, got dogs and guns for the job. Our hunting regulations says hunters either have to be sertified trackers, or to make a written appointment with one before hunting Big Game(Norway, and also rest of Scandinavia). Trackers are to be called if something goes sour, and the tracking can go on for days. We also do tracking on road accidents. Books written about this, and our National Hunting Organization are training and certifying the trackers.

After the shot, if You`re not sure how it went; wait for half an hour. Stay still. The deer don`t know what happened, it got hurt, but don`t realize it`s a human involved. It will lay down, and something we call "wound-fever" will start. If You wait it out, he will be unable to get up. At least if damage is severe. If he understands that humans are involved, adrenaline will start pumping, focus will be drawn away from the wound, and he will start the escape. Our small Roe Deer can run in front of dogs for days on three legs.
In the scenario described in the post, the hunter was to quick to aproach the game. However, the escaping deer laid down several times afterwards. Slow down, and let the wound work. Give it time.

This applies for all Big Game. Deer will escape, but I`m also hunting Wild Boar, and that`s another story. If wounded they may ambush You. Knowing all this, and after hunting different Big Game for years, this fall I aproached a large male Wild Boar to fast, in the darkness. He was almost done, but still alive, roaring at me. As it turned out, today I`m still able to write on this forum, so obviously it went well.
Remember, elk, moose and other Big Game are faster and stronger than us, and they got hooves, antlers, and some of them got sharp teeth. If wounded and cornered, a human being is no match for them.

About slugs: I have wery little experience with them on game myself. Hawe shot them a paper, and plan to use them when hunting or tracking Roe Deer, and also if I have to look for Wild boar in the darkness again (probably will have to).
 
Cloverleaf

I made the same shot with a bow on a deer a couple of years ago. My result was worse in that I never found her at all. I gave her 30 min after I shot her, then trailed her blood spots on the ground. After an hour tracking (350 yards) there was no longer any blood nor were conditions such that I could trail her without blood. I then started a grid pattern for another hour in the primary direction she was headed. Never found her. I even went into the timber two days later listening for crows or other birds and found nothing. I recovered the arrow it was a complete pass through and was covered with light, thin blood and fluid, that has been my only loss (so far I am keeping my fingers crossed) with a bow. It happens we as hunters of course have the responsibility to make the best most careful shot we can, however stuff happens and sometimes the end result is a lost animal.
 
Yep, been using those Hornady slugs for years. Cheaper than Federal premium. Last deer I shot with the Hornadys soaked up three of 'em. Lke our example, the first to high, the second end to end through the lungs. The third finally broke her neck. That ended it. Sorry, just not a good enough shot to have slugs inpress me i guess. CL
 
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