When they dont go down...???

[Guest]

You know I am a hard core ethics freak, CL. We've debated politics, fairness, and social issues here on occasion to prove it. That said, I can confidently say you stand tall in my book, regardless of your disability or your life lesson in the woods the other day. As I said earlier, I would not have taken the second shot, although the part about the second tag being pre-agreed upon changes the hunting partner's complaints a bit. I suspect you won't take the second shot next time, either. Of course, it is some significant comfort to know that with only the first shot, you can stock the freezer. Keep at it, and don't let some poor manners burden you.

Kodiak, I agree, as you can see, that the issue of the second shot is an ethics issue. I also stand by my first point that you don't need to swear and act like a hard case to impress any of us. You're welcome to state your opinion like the rest of us, but understand that if you keep being abrasive (and I don't think that's just my opinion at this point) you won't be a welcome participant. I think they relish in that behavior on some of the other forums, but here we stake our claim to civility. I mean no offense in calling you out, and you feel free to swear up and down about me all you like. I didn't give CL any more slack than I give anyone, but I also am not willing to crucify an obviously remorseful hunter who is striving to do the right thing in the wake of a regretful decision, regardless of whether he or she rides in a chair or walks upright or somewhere in between. I suspect if we went through your hunting past, we'd find a few misjudgements, as we would mine. We live and learn. Or we just live and continue to act like jerks. I prefer enlightenment.

 

[bullet]

You know I am a hard core ethics freak, CL. We've debated politics, fairness, and social issues here on occasion to prove it. That said, I can confidently say you stand tall in my book, regardless of your disability or your life lesson in the woods the other day. As I said earlier, I would not have taken the second shot, although the part about the second tag being pre-agreed upon changes the hunting partner's complaints a bit. I suspect you won't take the second shot next time, either. Of course, it is some significant comfort to know that with only the first shot, you can stock the freezer. Keep at it, and don't let some poor manners burden you.

Kodiak, I agree, as you can see, that the issue of the second shot is an ethics issue. I also stand by my first point that you don't need to swear and act like a hard case to impress any of us. You're welcome to state your opinion like the rest of us, but understand that if you keep being abrasive (and I don't think that's just my opinion at this point) you won't be a welcome participant. I think they relish in that behavior on some of the other forums, but here we stake our claim to civility. I mean no offense in calling you out, and you feel free to swear up and down about me all you like. I didn't give CL any more slack than I give anyone, but I also am not willing to crucify an obviously remorseful hunter who is striving to do the right thing in the wake of a regretful decision, regardless of whether he or she rides in a chair or walks upright or somewhere in between. I suspect if we went through your hunting past, we'd find a few misjudgements, as we would mine. We live and learn. Or we just live and continue to act like jerks. I prefer enlightenment.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8) + 1

 

[russ808]

+1

 

[KodiakHntr]

Kodiak, put your pride in your pocket. The agreement to use the tags for good shots was well established before we loaded the guns in the a.m. My friend who b#$% , missed a buck at 25 yards later in the day.

CL

Put my pride in my pocket...Really not sure where I've been prideful. Not sure why my ego was called out either?

Quite sure I've called out physically able guys for doing exactly the same thing though. And quite positive I've never shot a second deer when the first one didn't fall. Even when the opportunity for a second or bigger animal presented itself.

And if the agreement to share tags was agreed upon prior to the hunt, then your buddy really didn't have any reason to be upset.

 

[KodiakHntr]

and don't let some poor manners burden you.

Think what you like.

I also stand by my first point that you don't need to swear and act like a hard case to impress any of us. You're welcome to state your opinion like the rest of us, but understand that if you keep being abrasive (and I don't think that's just my opinion at this point) you won't be a welcome participant.

Well, ban away then if you feel the need. I feel no need to change who I am, because someones feelings might be hurt if I don't talk the same as they do. I'm not trying to impress anyone. I merely have a belief that hunting is serious business, and as such people need to not take it lightly.

feel free to swear up and down about me all you like. I didn't give CL any more slack than I give anyone, but I also am not willing to crucify an obviously remorseful hunter who is striving to do the right thing in the wake of a regretful decision, regardless of whether he or she rides in a chair or walks upright or somewhere in between.

And I`m not sure how CL is "striving to do the right thing"...By his own statement he demeans the hunter that bailed him out by tagging a poorly shot deer. Is this striving to do the right thing in your locale? How remorseful are you if you complain that someone who has kept you from breaking a game law was "b*itching"?

Were I to swear up and down at you, you'd be aware of it. And I'm not trying to crucify CL. I merely point out the situation. Were CL able bodied I doubt that any one of you would be making the feel good statements that you are.

As hunters we have a responsibility to the other hunters out there to not make snap decisions that would paint us all with the same brush.

I've not treated CL any different than I would anyone else here, there or anywhere.

And in my locale, what CL did would be classified as poaching, not just a "misjudgement".

Or we just live and continue to act like jerks. I prefer enlightenment.

Call me a jerk if you like (and I'm not sure how this doesn't fall under the "mean no offense in calling you out" umbrella, but to each their own...) as I could not care less about what you think of me. But you know what, at least I'm not being condescending to CL. Sure he can't run out and look for blood, but he can damn sure not reload and shoot again before someone goes and looks for blood. This isn't a question of a physical disability, its a question of lack of self control.

So think what you will of my tact, or lack thereof, but my judgement isn't in question here.

 

[Guest]

I suspect if we went through your hunting past, we'd find a few misjudgements, as we would mine. We live and learn. Or we just live and continue to act like jerks. I prefer enlightenment.

While I understand your opinion on what I said, whether I agree or not, I do wish to clarify, by placing my comments in complete context, what I meant about being a jerk. I was saying that we, as hunters, either learn the lesson, or go afield and act like jerks despite that we ought to know better through our own experience.

And for the record, I'm not treating anyone here any different because of their ability or disability. I'd say the very same things I've said regardless of who posted this story. I just don't find a need to phrase things in a manner that belittles. You are entitled to phrase it however you like. You don't need me to like you anymore than I need you to reciprocate. I've coexisted peaceably enough with a whole variety of folks who don't like me, so you won't be the first, nor the last.

I still say that CL is trying to do the right thing. His decision cannot be undone, but it can be avoided down the road. As for his comments about the other hunter complaining, I think the pre-arrangement speaks volumes about the origin of that comment. And in that situation, as in many other states where party licenses are issued, what he did isn't poaching at all. Were he hunting solo with a single tag, sure, poaching outright, but he wasn't, plain and simple, and there was an agreement amongst his hunting party regarding this very issue.

I am not a moderator, and don't have the capability nor the desire to ban anyone. I don't welcome gruff and abrasive comments, but I also have the ability not to read them if I so choose. Post away. Swear away. I'll not have another comment about it.

 

[FOTIS]

CHIT HAPPENS....

What can you do? :?

 

[bullet]

I believe it is time for all of us to let this thread die, I know I am going to let it die from my perspective and participation.

 

[Firedog]

Kodiak is absolutely right on this. Gotta follow up the first shot and go check your animal. CL is lucky that he hunts in an area that it is aparently legal to tag someone elses kill. It isn't out here and that would result tickets and a visit with the judge if caught. Seen plenty of mortaly hit animals go anywhere from drop in their tracks to run for quite a ways. Always need ot make sure if you take the shot though.

Now some may not care for how Kodiak stated his opinion but thats the way it goes. If you do things that are unethical you need to be prepared for the responses.

 

[Guest]

And I find yours well stated, to the point, and unabrasive. That was my initial point, along with the fact that I am not extending CL any courtesies because of his disability. Outside of that, I called it like I saw it, and stand by my statements, which are in agreement with yours, as far as I can tell.

 

[bobbyrum]

As the man says s**t happens Few years back my brother shot at a doe 75 yards down a fire break with a Win. .30-30 lever. Deer was still standing following the shot so he fired again. This time the deer dropped. When he walked up & checked it out, there was 2 dead deer :? Second was standing just back of the first with his butt in the bush & in that slit second of recoil the doe dropped & left the other standing, & thinking he missed, took the second one. Grandpa & grandson happened by shorty after & since they hadn't seen anything all day, my brother gave them one of the deer.

 

[JD338]

CL,

Hang in there. Hunting is not always absolute. All we can do is learn as we go. Since I wasn't there, I really can't comment on the situation.
Deer will sometimes, but not always, take off on a low hard run when hit.
Their tail is sometimes up, sometimes down.

JD338

 

[Ridge_Runner]

Well I bypassed this thread once, the more I thought about it the more upset I became so here goes

The only thing I take for granted is the belief that when you shoot at one critter, you owe it to that critter to see if its hit or not. My ego has sweet F*ck All to do with it. CL shot at a deer. He should of waited till someone came to give him a hand, or done what he could to check.

Tact...Why? Cut him some slack because he rides a chair? Why? He hunts the same as everyone else. Same rules, same ideals. Everyone has a tough row to hoe. Just some of us have a more visible row.
Bully for CL for getting out there with it being more difficult for him, but that shouldn't change the ETHICS of the situation.

If he wasn't riding a chair every single one of you would be hammering someone who said they shot at a deer and it didn't tip over so they shot another....

You miserable bastard! the man made a mistake, he knows he made a mistake, he feels bad about it and is looking for insight to keep it from happening again, and what insight do you give him MISTER HOLIER THAN THOW? His posts says a whole lot more about his ethics than yours says about yours. CL could share a deer camp with me anytime, but you and your kind never will.
Guess you've never screwed up in your life, have you?

Sure you have, we all have, and we try our best to learn from it.

And how dare you question someone's ethics? thats a deeply personal issue that really shouldn't concern you.


The man doesn't "ride a chair" he has a disability, but he's out there doing his best to enjoy the outdoors, If it were you you'd be settin at home feeling sorry for yourself, I'm proud of CL and he could have my tag anyday!

sorry guys this $hit just gualds my @$$.
RR

 

[cloverleaf]

Easy Ridge- I posted to try and learn a little about others experiences when a deer is hit. True I didnt get that info. I probably should have left the details out. We might have all learned somthin'. As it is, learn from my mistake. I got a tough enough hide to take whatever remarks and try and learn from 'em. Dont put yourself out there in a bad way on my account. I appreciate the feeling, but I made a poor choice by my own admission and didnt trust a shot I know I CAN make. No pioint in getting in a name calling match, just adds fuel to the fire that misses the intent of my post. Again, I'll still be out there. Thanks CL

 

[Ridge_Runner]

well CL, the scene you layed out, would have me thinking a miss also, until I checked it out.
The tail up running when hit doesn't surprise me, they seem to do that alot, but if when hit back that far, usualy the only telltale sign ya get is they kick up with the back feet.
if the deer are all hyped up on adrenaline or just plain scared, sometimes they just don't show any sign whatsoever of being hit, I've saw it about 3-4 times in my hunting carreer.
RR

 

[KodiakHntr]

You miserable bastard! the man made a mistake, he knows he made a mistake, he feels bad about it and is looking for insight to keep it from happening again, and what insight do you give him MISTER HOLIER THAN THOW? His posts says a whole lot more about his ethics than yours says about yours. CL could share a deer camp with me anytime, but you and your kind never will.

Best way to keep that from happening again? Don't shoot a second deer till you've looked for the first one. Pretty simple.

Guess you've never screwed up in your life, have you?

In life, sure, in hunting, well, I've never accidentally shot anything.

And how dare you question someone's ethics? thats a deeply personal issue that really shouldn't concern you.

You mean like how you just questioned mine? Even though I'm not the one who'd shot a second deer after taking a shot at another?

The man doesn't "ride a chair" he has a disability, but he's out there doing his best to enjoy the outdoors, If it were you you'd be settin at home feeling sorry for yourself, I'm proud of CL and he could have my tag anyday!

sorry guys this $hit just gualds my @$$.
RR

You may not like how my post is worded, but you have no idea about anything when it comes to me.

So Ridge, continue to be condescending to CL if you like. I'll not do that. I won't talk down to a hunter and tell him its ok that he screwed up.
What I will do is treat him the same as any other hunter in the woods. Maybe you should do the same.

 

[jtoews80]

OK, this is getting stupid. Whether or not what you said was right was never the question? Ethically it was a screw up, as admitted on the opening post by CL. I would cut him slack, but not condone it.

Public ridlicule and berating goes way beyond what would I would deem decent. This says a few things about you. To publicly ridlicule or talk down on somebody(who is disabled) because of the inability to operate as yourself in a given situation is reprehensible, or at best unacceptable.

CC.

 

[Charlie-NY]

One thing that I'll add:

You may want to check with the Game Commission regarding an agreement among hunters to share tags. It is not legal in most states.

Can you shoot 3 bucks and put your wife's tag and daughter's tag on two of them and have it be legal?

Can you catch 10 fish when only 5 are legal and say that you wife, who was in the boat, is responsible for the second 5? You sure can't do that in NY.

Just a thought

 

[nodak7mm]

Uff Da!

I am not gonna jump on the band wagon and either publically defend or crucify CL for what occured. But on a side note, I will commend CL for admitting and taking full responsibility in making such a mistake. That alone in my book describes a man who has morals and ethics. It takes one hell of a set of gonads to man up and do that in a public forum.

Regarding someone else tagging the deer, I could be wrong but I believe in MN, "party hunting" is allowed..

Have a great and safe Muzzleloading season..

Nodak

 

[257 Ackley]

It is legal to "party hunt" in Minnesota with some restrictions. The person whose tag is being used must be hunting on the same site. There is an old quote that I used with my kids for years; "you are who you are when you're alone". All of us that hunt make decisions on how we will handle ethical situations that do not have us under a surveillance camera whenever we are in the field.