Winchester Model 70 XTR 264 WM

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,639
4
Picked up a new, ok so its a 1982 or so, (still never been fired, so its basically new) Winchester Model 70 XTR in .264 WM w/24" bbl from an old family friend a few weeks ago. I was actually in the market for a heavy barreled 243 for a coyote rifle, but after thinking about it for a few days, I had to have the 264!! Not everyday you come across an old winchester thats never been fired in a 264. Had to really think about it though since it only has the 24" tube, really really really wanted/like the 26" but really, 2" of bbl is only gonna give at most 100fps less and that only equates to an overall loss of about 25 yards of maximum killing range. It'll still reach out and touch somethin, I guaruntee no deer or coyotes gonna notice the 2" barrel loss, so I guess I can live with it. Its gonna be shot out in 5 years or so anyways and then get rebarreled with a 28" tube for a more serious LR platform.

Going to be my new coyote rifle for now since all I was down to was a 222 remington and 338 EDGE.

So I robbed my Leupold VX3 LR, 6.5-20x50 w/SF, 30mm tube, fine duplex, w/scope level off my 338 EDGE since its the only scope I own with target knobs as of now. Set it on top of some warne 2 piece weaver style bases and locked down with Leupods PRW rings. I worked the trigger down to lightest it would go safely which is around 1.5# Did not float or bed it as of yet, want to see how it shoots with serious load development with AMAXs before I mess with it to much.

Had a fresh bag of 100 Remington 7mm RM brass laying around and after doing a bit of reading and research, figured out I could indeed use them instead of shelling out extra cash for regular 264 brass. Real truth was I was in a hurry and didn't wanna wait a week, lol. So I ran them all through the RCBS FL 264 sizing die, trimmed em to 2.490", deburred the flash hole, chamfered inside/outside neck, and everything seems to be doing good so far, no split necks out of about 75 rounds I think so far down her. So must be working ok.

Bought some 95g Vmax, broke her in doing the shoot 1 and clean/scrub after every shot, for first 10 shots, then moved to 3 shots and clean/scrub for next 20 rounds, then did 5 shots clean/scrub for another 20 rounds which equals a total of 50 rounds for my process of barrel break in. It cleaned up real well, little copper fouling, more powder fouling then anything it seems. H1000 at 73g doing 3300fps and .75" at 100 yards was what I came up with for a quick coyote hunting load, went up to 77g for 3550fps but accuracy was ho hum at 1.5" Anyways its a mild load with decent accuracy, didn't really care at the time, breaking in the barrel and trying to find a load in 10 degree weather with snow and wind was not my idea of fun for the weekend, even with a new rifle... Although after a weekend of break in and very little load work with H1000/95g vmax, the next weekend I managed to kill 2 coyotes with it, first was a good size female at 475 yards, second was a smaller male at 100. The exit on the female at 475 was golfball, hit her really low in the shoulder, the male I hit at 100 was on point of shoulder and was about a 6" exit. Missed about 3 or 4 others as well, wont talk about those to much, haha.

I've been looking at all the LR bullets and I've narrowed it down to 2 pretty much, the 123g and 140g Hornady AMAX's. Im leaning more towards the 123g. With the 24" bbl, the 123g is a good bullet with its .510 BC at 3200fps. I think I"ll only be able to push the 140s to about 3000fps. There really really close out to 1K with the edge in wind drift and energy, remaining velocity goes to the 140, only edge the 123g has is drop, but its right on the heels of the 140...I'm worried about my factory twist stabilzing the 140g amax, I'm thinking I shouldn't have a problem, but I would like to see if anyone would like to sell me a few before I buy a whole box of the 140 amaxs. I think I'm going to order me about 3 or 4 boxes of the 123g amaxs from Graf n Sons, they are $25.50 per 100 and they have a deal goign on right now that you get free shipping on orders over $50. I've got some AA4350, IMR4350, H4350 AA3100, RL22, RL25, and H1000 to try with the AMAXs, probly concentrate with H4350 and H1000 as I like the hodgons extreme series of powders, very consistent and not temp sensitive.

I've always wanted a good 6.5 of some sort once I got into LR shooting. You just cant beat them...I'll be stretching her out to 1K soon once I get some AMAXs dialed in. Will keep ya posted on how she does.
 

FOTIS

Range Officer
Staff member
Oct 30, 2004
23,013
49
Good deal Remmy!

It seems that the whole forum has gone 264 mag wild! I got a Sendero II and shoots like a house afire!

Anyway, what happened to your Shilen 25-06 and 7mm rem mag?

Did I miss an episode or 2? :| :mrgreen:
 

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,639
4
Yah I'm trying to get down to my 4 gun battery that fills a specific niche, my 222 is my squirrel, pdog, truck/calling/close range varmint/coyote rifle, then I need a dedicated coyote caliber that'll reach out to 800 which was usually a 25-06, but i've come to my sense over the years and realized the 25-06 is just kinda in the middle of the road, the 6mm and 6.5mms are just so much more versatile with there superior BC's that a 243 just makes more sense for a coyote rifle, for a dual purpose coyote/deer rifle, thats a no contest no brainer, 25-06 all the way. I will always have a dedicated LR deer rifle that will also serve as an antelope getter and it will always be a 6.5mm or 7mm of some sort, more en likely a 264 WM or 7 RM, which by the way make dandy back ups for an elk/bear rifle to my 338 EDGE. So what I have now besides my 10/22 and my 12 Ga 870 supermag is the rem 700 222, win 70 264, and my rem 700 338 EDGE which fills 3 of my 4 needs, but can still get the coyotes done with the 222 and 264 untill I can save up and buy a heavy barreled 243 strictly for coyotes once again. I could be completely satisfied and hunt everything I desire with the above calibers and not need to buy another rifle till the day I die, but we all know that will never happen, lol. I sold the rem 700 deluxe in 338 WM I just bought w/leupold vari x III, 2.5-8x to buy this 264...Hey, something had to go, and it wasn't gonna be my triple deuce or my EDGE...

I'll try to get some pics up soon of the 264, it does have a nice piece of wood on her to go with that high blue finish.
 

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,639
4
Yep, only put around 30 rounds through that one before it was down the road, lol. Just figured I didn't need a "little" 338 when I already had the EDGE! Need to start saving for a 700 VLS or Win 70 coyote in 243 though so I can have it by next years coyote season. 264 will definately reach out there at LR, but its honestly a bit more then I want or need for my serious coyote rifle, to much powder and recoil.

Was already thinking of a few hotrod 6.5s to rebarrel this 264 when its toast tho. Will go with a 28" stainless/fluted sendero contour reguardless of caliber, probly a HART, but maybe Krieger, would like to try one of them one day I spose or a Mike Rock 5R barrel would be nice to...Anyways, a plain ol 264 with a 28" would definately smoke em, but I was thinking more capacaity to go with the longer barrel like, 6.5 STW, 6.5-300 WBY, or 6.5 RUM. However I fully realize my barrel and more importantly throat life wouldn't be jack crap, so that is a really big turn off to me since I'd probly shoot the barrel out on one of them in a year or two and I cant afford to do that all the time. It would be fun if I had the money one day to tinker tho with something like that, I can still dream right??
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
34,815
964
At this rate, I'll be compelled to buy a 264 WM. It is a great cartridge. It sounds as if you got a real steal, Remmy. Congratulations. And you won't do badly with those bullets for deer and coyotes. It will get the job done, that's for sure.
 

BK

Handloader
Dec 14, 2008
4,045
0
Man, I love this board. I have just had my bullet choices for my new Ruger 6.5 Creedmoor narrowed down for me, and I didn't even have to any work!

I hear ya about the cold thing... after being in San Diego for the last two years, I passed through your neck of the woods last weekend on my way up to Lewiston. Freakin' cold!
 

elkeater2

Handloader
Jan 5, 2009
734
10
Let's see if I got it right:
Remingtonman_222_243_264_338EDGE :grin: But no 25-06 no more?? :cry:

My wife's .243 is heckling me from the safe "told ya, told ya, now get me outside!!". :grin:
 

6mm Remington

Ammo Smith
Feb 27, 2006
5,075
29
remingtonman_25_06 said:
Need to start saving for a 700 VLS or Win 70 coyote in 243 though so I can have it by next years coyote season. 264 will definately reach out there at LR, but its honestly a bit more then I want or need for my serious coyote rifle, to much powder and recoil.

Remington 25_06
You can also get that 700 VLS in 6mm REMINGTON which might be a thought :?: :mrgreen: Also in January the Remington 700 CDL Stainless Fluted Limited Edition will be out, and they are chambering it this year for the 6mm REMINGTON with a 24" barrel :!: :!: :idea: What a gorgeous rifle that would be a dream to carry (weight wise) and yet would reach out there for prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope, and deer! Pillar and glass bed it and you would have an awesome rifle! :grin: 85 gr. Sierrra bthp's for coyotes and 90 gr. Nosler E-tips for everything else. The E-tips sure have worked great the last couple years in my son's 6mm. He shot his cow elk at 350 yards this year using a his Harris bi-pod and laying down prone. Hit her just behind her shoulder and it exited out her off side shoulder. She went 30 yards and tipped over.

Don't forget about the wonderful 6mm Remington :mrgreen:
 

6mm Remington

Ammo Smith
Feb 27, 2006
5,075
29
I'm saving for one of those CDL's but I"m just worried about how I will get it past my wife without ending up in the dog house :!: :shock: I guess I need to sit down with the Patrick McMannus book I have and read the short story GUNRUNNING again! IN it he gives all kinds of ways he was able to get firearms past his wife without her knowing about it. Seriously funny read if none of you have ever read it before :!: :!: :grin:

That does sound like you did get a sweetheart in the 264 WM. Congratulations on the most excellent purchase! 8)

David.
 

JD338

Range Officer
Staff member
Nov 4, 2004
21,574
654
Remmy,

Congratulations on the M70 XCR 264 WM. She sounds like she will be a shooter.
Give the 120 gr BT seconds a try, the BC is .458 and they are excellent on deer.

JD338
 

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,639
4
Thought about the 6mm remington, but I've read where it does quite a bit better in a LA due to case length being funky inbetween...Plus I already have a set of Redding 243 dies that I got for a great deal, and about 250 pieces of 243 brass, so I'll probly stick with the 243. I might end up buying a sporter weight 243 though to, would be a 700 BDL or CDL or a win 70 classic sporter only 3 I would consider. Just depends on how I was feeling that day with money in hand, but I think I want a 26" hvy bbl varmint/target rifle more then I want a 22 or 24" sporter weight rifle.

Jim you know me, I'm all about performance vs cost, with 1K always in mind... Right now, IMO, the AMAXs are very very hard to beat in terms of everything but a close up bullet, which they were not designed for anyways, which you and I both know is a moot point where and how I hunt. I can count on 1 hand how many animals I've killed inside 200 yards. There BC's are top notch, they are super accurate, super cheap, provide quick devastating expansion on game up to deer at medium and long range, they are a very sexy looking bullet as well to top it all off, all this and there about the cheapest bullets on the market. Pretty tough to contend with that if your not hunting in thick brush or shooting inside 200 yards hardly ever, and if you do, slip it behind the ribs and you'll be fine as if you were punching them in the shoulders at 300+.
 

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,639
4
BK here ya go, I posted this in the reloading section under "loading the 264". Just a quick comparison at 1K. Opened my eyes, I thought the 140g amax was the way to fly simply due to its .585 BC, untill I saw that 123g amaxs .510 BC and how much faster I can push it versus the 140g.

I just got a 264 as well and I think I'm going to play with the 123g and 140g AMAXs. They are cheap, accurate, have high BC's, and they will kill steel, coyotes, and deer, so they get a thumbs up from me. Had nothing but great things happen with the 162g amax from my old 7 RM, hope this 264 will do the same.

It appears Retumbo is a top choice for velocity with bullets from 120g on up, I might have to buy a pound to try out versus H1000 and a few other powders I have on hand. On the hodgon site Retumbo is showing 3300fps with 120g and 3000fps for 140g while H1000 is doing 3270 and 2900.

I"ll be trying one or the other here real soon as I'm about to run out of these little 95g vmaxs. I"m thinking the 123g amax is goign to be the way to go in the 24" barrel, reason being with the extra 300fps in MV and not a whole lot of loss in BC versus the 140g amax (.510 for 123g vs .585 for 140g) figuring 3300fps for 123g and 3000fps for 140g AMAXs it will be real real close to the 140g amax out to 1K.

Heres what I come up with at 1K with a 10 MPH crosswind with the 123g amax and 140g amax loaded at max, 700ft ASL, 60 degrees, 1.75" sight height, rifle zeroed at 200 yards.

123g AMAX at 3300fps .510 BC
-218" 83 clicks (20.3 MOA)
1641 FPS
736 Ft lbs
68" 10 MPH 26 clicks (6.2 MOA)

140g AMAX at 3000fps .585 BC
-249" 95 clicks (23.3 MOA)
1611 FPS
806 Ft lbs
65" 10 MPH 25 clicks (6.1 MOA)

As you can see, that little 123g AMAX looks to be one mean bullet, it literally gives up nothing to the bigger 140g, but it does shoot 3 MOA flatter, 3" difference of wind drift is a moot point IMO, I'm not good enough to judge that at that range anyways, and 70 more ft lbs of energy is like throwing an extra BB at it, and there still impacting at a higher velocity to insure expansion. Yah, I think I"m buying some 123g AMAX's and Retumbo...
 

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,639
4
Neck down Remington 7mm RM case w/95g vmax seated to 3.205"

2mz9yd2.jpg


5b8hhe.jpg


2n1gmd4.jpg


2qwmn4l.jpg


2vkxe1g.jpg


Anybody got any easier idea how to get that front site off without feeling like im gonna break the thing? I put a shirt over the site, and beat on the side with a flat head screw driver and hammer pretty good and I got it to move maybe an eyelash was all. I dont like it on there, its to pointy and tall and catches on EVERYTHING!!!
 

6mm Remington

Ammo Smith
Feb 27, 2006
5,075
29
That's a nice looking rifle 25_06! I would try a punch instead of a flat head screwdriver and I suggest a buddy with an extra set of hands just to hold the rifle and put the barrel on a firm cushioned bench like your reloading bench with one of those cleaning pads put down. You should be able to tap it out of it's dovetail then and access the screw underneath the dovetail. They do look better with the front sight removed as well besides snaggin on everything! Good luck.
 

1Shot

Handloader
Dec 5, 2008
1,435
3
Also I would let it soak some penetrating oil around it before my next try.
 

jmad_81

Handloader
Feb 14, 2007
2,937
0
Bring it over buddy. I got some goood oil for that kind of thing and some punches and a hammer. We'll get her out of there and get that front sight off.
 

BK

Handloader
Dec 14, 2008
4,045
0
Thanks for the info on the bullets. I think that honestly, this gun might not ever get hunted for anything other than coyotes... I've been on a bit of a gun buying tear lately (not of Pop proportions yet) and pretty much everything else has been SS. If I can find someplace where I can shoot 400-800 yards, I may sling some bullets at long range steel. If I can ever stay home long enough.
 
Top