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 Post subject: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 am
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Location: East Coast
We have rifles built for 7mmRemington, 300Win, 338Lapua, but not for 338Win.
Why isn't the 338Win used for long range shooting?
The Army even thought about using the 338 Norma which was designed just for the purpose of replacing the 300Win for Sniping duties.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:00 am
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Location: Tennessee
Not quite enough case capacity to get the really heavy 338 bullets going at the speeds necessary for long range.

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 Post subject: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:56 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:39 pm
Posts: 81
truck driver wrote:
We have rifles built for 7mmRemington, 300Win, 338Lapua, but not for 338Win.
Why isn't the 338Win used for long range shooting?
The Army even thought about using the 338 Norma which was designed just for the purpose of replacing the 300Win for Sniping duties.


The Norma was designed to Duplicate the .338 Lapua in a standard length Magnum Action.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Norma_Magnum

The Winnie doesn’t have enough face capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:52 am 
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Location: East Coast
Ridgerunner665 wrote:
Not quite enough case capacity to get the really heavy 338 bullets going at the speeds necessary for long range.
Strange since I have read where smaller 338 cal wildcats ( .338 Sherman ) work well with lighter bullets in the 250gr range ( Berger ) which the 338 was designed to run. I'm thinking with the advent of the 265gr and 285gr bullets they would be a game changer for the old gal.
Also what can one gain by turning the 338Wm into an Ackley improved case? Been looking for info but seems no one has tried it or published the results.
I'm thinking if you had the 338 Wm in a action where you could seat the longer heavier bullets out to use the full case cap of the 338Wm it would work using less powder and less recoil.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:54 am 
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The .300 Win Mag is a favorite long range round. Compare the .338 Win Mag to the .300 Win Mag using a 180 or 185 grain bullet.
I’ll take the .338 any day over the .300 Win Mag.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:50 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:59 pm
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Roger
A 338 Lapua will meet all of your needs and then some. I believe Remington offers rifles in that caliber so you I you don"t have to go the custom route.

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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:00 pm
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Location: Northern Idaho
The 338 Norma Mag will do anything the 338 Lapua Mag will do, and do it better IMO.

On step further in a better direction is the 300 Norma Mag for ELR sniping, shooting. Launches a 230 gr. .743 BC bullet just as fast or faster as any 300 gr 338, and do it in a better designed case with less recoil.

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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Location: East Coast
Been reading a lot on the different .338 super magnums and though they do increase velocity they also burn a lot more powder to do it with a lot more recoil and noise.
I also have been looking at the 338RCM which would probably do what I want but with a longer then factory 20.5" barrel since it is just falling short of .338Win velocities with a 24" barrel.
4" more barrel would add around 150fps. and in a short action for less weight to carry.
I would probably prefer a long action to take advantage of using the longer Berger bullets.
Surprised the long range crowd hasn't already tried it.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 13919
Location: Washington State
Just FYI guys "PRS" or Precision Rifle Series is a sport:

Link: https://www.precisionrifleseries.com/

Quite popular here in my area, but I've never shot in an actual PRS match. I was involved in a number of "tactical" type matches before the advent of PRS though.

I don't know anyone in the PRS sport shooting a magnum cartridge. It's simply not necessary, and would be a detriment.

Matches include some fairly rapid fire, shooting from challenging positions. They're timed, and there is a minimum round count of 120 rounds. That's going to turn off a lot of folks who might want to shoot a 7mm mag, .30 cal mag or .338 magnum...

Most of the competitors I know are using a 6mm or 6.5mm of some sort. There are also "tactical" classes which must choose either the .308 Win or the .223 Rem/5.56mm.

So - just thought I'd add all that since this post about Long Range Rifle Cartridges was placed in the "Precision Rifle Series" spot on the forum. I get the impression that most folks here don't know what that is.

It's a formal competition, as is NRA or CMP match shooting, Bullseye pistol shooting, etc... Just a different discipline. I've thought strongly about getting the ol' Green Machine brought up to "modern" PRS standards and giving it a go. :)

Regards, Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Location: East Coast
Thanks for the info Guy.
I guess I put the post in the wrong forum but was thinking about the over 1000 yard shooters.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Location: Washington State
truck driver wrote:
Thanks for the info Guy.
I guess I put the post in the wrong forum but was thinking about the over 1000 yard shooters.


Yup - I got that! :grin:

And it's not like the PRS part of our forum is exactly over-used anyway...

For the 1,000 yard matches, BTW (not PRS) it's about 20 years or so since the big magnums held sway. Most of the winners were using the 6.5-284 some years ago, or similar cartridges with decent velocity, high BC bullets, and mild recoil. Winning combo for long range match shooting.

I dunno what they're using now. I got stuck in the .308 Win rut... :mrgreen:

Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:43 am
Posts: 63
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Guy Miner wrote:
truck driver wrote:
Thanks for the info Guy.
I guess I put the post in the wrong forum but was thinking about the over 1000 yard shooters.


Yup - I got that! :grin:

And it's not like the PRS part of our forum is exactly over-used anyway...

For the 1,000 yard matches, BTW (not PRS) it's about 20 years or so since the big magnums held sway. Most of the winners were using the 6.5-284 some years ago, or similar cartridges with decent velocity, high BC bullets, and mild recoil. Winning combo for long range match shooting.

I dunno what they're using now. I got stuck in the .308 Win rut... :mrgreen:

Guy


Ain't a bad 'rut' to be stuck in!! (y)


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:56 am
Posts: 22
So, my reply may be a bit off-point, mainly because I'm slightly fuzzy on whether the question is specifically to do with PRS or NRL competition, or just long-range shooting in general. Most local PRS-type matches limit both caliber and bullet speed. The 338 Lapua or Norma wouldn't be allowed in our club's matches, for example. I don't recollect the PRS rules well enough offhand to know whether they allow those cartridges or not. They're too hard on the targets.

Either way, though, even the 338 Win Mag doesn't work well for NRL/PRS competition. Recoil is FAR too high to shoot well for a match, and cost of ammo too high, for most all competitors. The good 24 & 26-cal shooters will eat your lunch essentially every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Location: Washington State
Yup! (y)

Some of the guys just didn't know PRS was a type of competition.

Regards, Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:43 pm
Posts: 647
Location: CO
longrangehunter wrote:
The 338 Norma Mag will do anything the 338 Lapua Mag will do, and do it better IMO.

On step further in a better direction is the 300 Norma Mag for ELR sniping, shooting. Launches a 230 gr. .743 BC bullet just as fast or faster as any 300 gr 338, and do it in a better designed case with less recoil.


+1 for the .300 Norma, and now Lapua makes brass for that round.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Range Rifle Cartridges
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 117
Location: US South
Just checked my favorite reloading supply.

They have 338 Lapua and 338 Norma brass in stock.
Out of 338 RUM.

Is the Rem Ultra Mag more popular than the 1st 2 ?

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