22-250 case question

[264 WinMan]

Sat down today to figure out the coal length for my 22-250 in order to set up new RCBS Comp dies I got for Christmas. I have never reloaded the 22-250. Knowing that the case is tapered I noticed that the case will not go all of the way into the die. There is a quarter of an inch gap between the shell holder and the die. Eventhough I set the die up for touching the shell holder plus one quarter of a turn.

I created a mock round with coal needed and loaded this dummy round into my rifle. This is when I found that she does not like it very well. The bolt is very hard and will not full close. I think it has to do with that last quarter of an inch that is not being sized. The sizer die is a FL even though I wanted a neck sizer.

Now let me tell you about the rifle. It is a Remington 700 that I would call a baby Sendero cause that what it looks like. When I purchased it the barrel had been replaced with a Douglas barrel. Atleast that what I was told, I can tell it is not a factory barrel. On the side of the barrel all that is stamped is 22-250. I thought there was possibility that it is a 22-250 AI, but a factory round slides in the same depth if the die.

What do you think????

Thank you for any help

 

[nodak7mm]

the case will not go all of the way into the die. There is a quarter of an inch gap between the shell holder and the die. Eventhough I set the die up for touching the shell holder plus one quarter of a turn.

I dont quite understand what your trying to explain. You have a gap but yet the bottom of the die touches the shellholder..

From what your further state, it sounds like your not sizing the case enough and you even are thinking that way.

More details needed as your explanation somewhat contradicts it self and I am sure we can get ya straightend out.

Rod

 

[264 WinMan]

Sorry I did not clarify. When I set the FL die up in my press, it was set up to touch the shell holder plus one quarter turn. Now when I place a spent shell case into the press to resize and remove spent primer, it will only go so far down the caseing and stop short leaving a quarter inch gap between shell holder and die. It stops rock solid.

Now when I said that the factory round would go into the die the same length. This was an unspent loaded round. I pulled the decapper rod assembly out to see if it went in the same lenght. The round went in the same length, leaving one quarter of an inch hagging out.

The main question I should be asking. Does a 22-250 case go all of the way into a die.

 

[rick smith]

What sizing lube are you using? I would not expect a loaded factory round to fit in the die. The neck sizing part of the die could not size with a bullet in the case.Rick.

 

[nodak7mm]

Are you popping the primer out when this happens? Do you have your decapping rod screwed way down?

Have you tried removing the decapping rod and sizing a "Fired" case?

Simply the case should go in alot farther: A) You have some mechanical block, remove decapping rod assy and try. B) You are not using enough lube, give it more, remove decapping rod and give er some muscle.

Whats your reloading experience? Ever had something like this before with other cartridges...?

We're trying, sometimes its hard to explain whats wrong and sometimes its hard to get the full picture. Keep trying and get back to us... Lot of experience here..

Rod

 

[264 WinMan]

I thank yall for your input. Yes it is one thing to go through the motions and another to explain sometimes. This would be the second cal. for me to reload. The other would be 25-06. I had no problem in handloading those. So to answer the question of expierence kind of a newby.

As for how to get a live round in the die.I pulled the decapping rod completly out.

Now the decapping rod is set at 3/16th below the face of the die. I have not tried to size without decapper rod in place. This is a good thought.

The case lube I am using is RCBS-2. I do have another that I have not tried yet that is IOSSO sizing lubricant and cleaner and this one is a pump spray

In terms of the muscle part well the press is a RCBS Rock Chucker. Maybe I am being a little conservative in the amout of force I am applying.

I thank you for your time and understanding.
Gene

 

[6mm Remington]

nodak7mm (Rod) (good points)
He might have something there on the decapping rod inside the sizing die. If it is adjusted too far out, it can and might actually hit the inside webbing on the base of the cartridge case. That could account for the "stop dead" feel that you get on the reloading arm of your press. This can actually bend the decapping rod assembly. They are pretty cheap to replace, but you might want to pull the assembly and make sure it's not bent or crooked. If it even looks to be a little bit, then I would replace it.

Read your little pamplet that was included in your die set. It should have a section on how to make sure the decapping rod and expander ball are properly adjusted. Your reloading book should have a similar section.

You say it is stamped 22-250 on the barrel, so have you tried (carefully in a safe location/direction) to chamber a factory 22-250 round? There should be no problem doing so. Even at that since the barrel had been replaced, it might not be a bad idea to take it to a gunsmith and have him take a peak at it.

 

[nodak7mm]

264Man. First, I'll bet its a lot warmer there, than here. My thermometer say -37*, Uff Da!

Ok, no you should not be able to get a loaded rd into any full length or neck sizing die under normal circumstances.

When I set up for "maximum" resizing, I adjust the die to touch shell holder and then back off just a tish.. I will do this with brass not shot in my particular rifle. I will then adjust the decapping rod enough to pop the primer out, setting it with the decapping rod extend thru the flashole (centers it).

Lube it well, you get dents in the shoulder, ya got to much. If it squeaks or sticks, it aint enough. Find the middle ground and it takes alot to get the shoulder dents... So be liberal with the lube, getting a stuck case really is a pain in the arse. SO USE ENOUGH and swab a bit in the neck too.

Try the above and get back to us.. We're here for ya man...... 8)

 

[JD338]

264 WinMan

nodak7mm has some good points!
It sounds line the expander ball on the decapping rod is adjusted too far down and hitting the bottom inside the case. Remove the decapping rod and try sizing a case.
Let us know how this works.

JD338

 

[C.Smith]

264 WinMan

nodak7mm has some good points!
It sounds line the expander ball on the decapping rod is adjusted too far down and hitting the bottom inside the case. Remove the decapping rod and try sizing a case.
Let us know how this works.

JD338

That is what is sounds like to me. Just went through that with a set of Hornady dies, but off course I used the extra muscle to try and force before realizing my mistake and bent things that should not be bent, oops.

Corey

 

[Powerstroke]

264 WinMan,

About the only "mechanical" type block I can see that would cause this has already been mentioned.......
There may be room when you're setting the die up ( without a shell in the shell holder ) to actually have the pin / expander ball move into the shell holder area ???
Once that case is in there that blockage occurs if it's adjusted down too far??

Easy on the amount of case lube as well... too much on the neck are can cause some of this type of issues as well if not even damage the shell.

If these are old dies ?? and I can't speak for other Mfgs but RCBS, there is a small vent hole in most of them. Make sure it's not plugged with lube / debris etc.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

[264 WinMan]

First off I must thank all for their replys. Real men of genius.

NODAK7mm I feel for you on the cold temp. I have never been in that cold of temp, 8 degrees was good enough for me. WOW

I removed the decapping rod and expander. I then took a case that had not been sized as of yet. I lubed it and then actuated the Rock Chucker ram. I found that the case went all of the way into the die. Oh How cool!

So now it is down to the decapping rod adjustment which I will work on next. What I had read in the instructions said to not extend the decapping rod more than 3/16th of an inch passed the face of the die. I guess I might have to tweak it a little.

The decapping rod is straight and not bend so that is a good thing.


Thanks again,
Gene

 

[Powerstroke]

Excellent.... sounds like you're on the right track and moving forward again....

Next you'll have to let us know how the -250 shoots

 

[nodak7mm]

Rock and Roll... All ya gotta do now is to send us some crawfish etouffee..

Glad to hear its panning out for ya..

A suggestion on saving yourself some future confusion/frustration and to get some more tools. Go buy yourself the Horandy/Stoney Point OAL Gauge and the Cartridge Headspace Gauge. There are several ways to determine bullet seating depth and to measure how much your sizing the case, but these two tools are slickest and easiest to way. 8)

Rod

 

[rick smith]

To set the decapping assembly screw it into the die so that the pin is just below flush with the bottom of the die. Lube a case and run it into the die. By hand screw the decapping assembly into the die until the primer pops out of the case, turn it down about 1/2 turn more and start removing the case. When the expander ball gets tight in the case, tighten the assembly in the die. That way the decapping assembly will be straight with the case mouth. If you still have the expander ball assembly out of the die, polish the expander to a mirror finish. That will make expanding the case neck a lot smoother.Rick.

 

[JD338]

264 WinMan

Perfecto! Easy fix, now on to reloading. :lol:
Let us know how the load development goes.
What bullet and powder are you starting with?

JD338

 

[Desert Fox]

Here's how I set my decapping pin. After you're done setting your die, raise the ram all the way and then adjust the decapper pin flush with the shellholder flat surface. You can just eyeball these. In my experienced, this is enough to pop the primer out. If not, just give it another quarter turn and your good to go.

 

[6mm Remington]

Sizing Tricks:
Hornady One Shot spray is the BEST case lube I have found. It flows nicely over the cases and is pretty tough to get too much of it on a case to cause dents. It also will not contaminate your powder and your primers so that you have a hang-fire or mis-fire with it. They suggest spraying a little of it into your sizing die periodically as well, and then holding the die so that it is right side up so that excess drains to the bottom of the die and flows out of the die body. Make sure you turn your loading block that holds your cases to be sized four times, making sure to spray the cases from each side at a downward angle. This allows some lube to also lubricate the case neck. Let it sit a couple minutes and you are ready to go. Before I spray my cases though, I make sure I spray a bit on a neck brush and clean the necks out of any grit or grime. It also helps to put a little lube inside the neck of the case for sizing.

Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber spray works great to spray into your upside down resizing die periodically and let sit for a couple minutes. Then dump the remaining fluid into the garbage can, and hold the die horizontially and spray again. Let your sizing die then just dry while it is right side up just as it would sit in the press. This gets out old lube that might be in there, and grit or other foreign material that can scratch your cases, and even the inside of your sizing die.

I also make sure I clean my cases before I do any of the above. It used to mean 0000 steel wool to clean the carbon on the necks and any other areas I felt needed touched up. Now before I size my cases, I tumble them in my case tumbler and wipe them off. Nice to have one of those things if you don't already. Your cases look brand new, and it's easy to see potential problems on your brass a lot easier to include a split or cracked neck, dents, or any other imperfections.

I have to say that there sure are a good bunch of guys on this site that are so willing to help folks with their questions. Even though I've been loading a long time, I know I can ALWAYS learn something new. These guys also do it in such a manner as to not make you feel like an idiot. Nodak7mm, Rick Smith, JD338, C.Smith, and Powerstroke all had great ideas and suggestions to try and did it in excellent fashion!! 8)

 

[C.Smith]

When you spray lube into the case are you cleaning it out later? If so how are you doing that?

Corey

 

[6mm Remington]

C.Smith_ I'm talking about spraying the case lube into the reloading die body, the sizing die. Just a couple quick shots inside the die body and then turn it right side up so any excess drains out the bottom of the die. This spray lube puts just a very very thin residual amount coating on the inside of the die and the neck expanding ball. After I am finished sizing the 50 or so cases I have prepared, I make sure I clean my sizing die as I described with the Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber. Before I size cases again the next time, I squirt just a little of the Hornady One shot into the reloading die so it has a light coat on the inside.

Right from the can it says:
1. Make certain that the die is clean inside prior to using Hornady One shot and get any old case lubricant out. This could impede the effectiveness of the Hornady One shot spray.

2. Spray a light coat of One Shot inside the die and allow it to dry for a few seconds.

3. Clean and inspect your cases to be sized.

4. "Arrange cases in a loading block or on a clean cloth. (cases should be upside down in a case block for even distribution of lubricant) Again shake the can and spray cases thoroughly on all sides of the case. Note. When spraying cases in a loading block, spray at a 45 degree angle. This allows the spray to enter the case mouth as well as lubricate the entire exterior of the case. ONE SHOT with DynaGlide is a non-petroleum product and will not contaminate powder or primers. In addition it dries completely in about one minute."

5. After waiting for about one minute begin case sizing. After sizing wipe each case and remove the remaining lubricant.

I spray them upside down as they describe, and then unless I am missing something, it seems to me that they are telling us to turn the cases upright and spray them lightly again on all sides at a 45 degree angle. This allows a small amount of the lube to enter the case mouth to lubricate it, and then lubricates the outside of the neck and the shoulder area. If the case is upside down in the loading block and the block is 3/8 to 1/2 inch deep or thereabouts, No spray lube will enter this neck and lubricate it. The only way to get spray in the neck of the case is to then turn cases over and do this again. I tried it just spraying the cases neck down, and it did not work and was very hard to size the cases and a lot of force on the press handle was required. There was not enough lubricant as the cases need, so something obviously was not right. I notice with the Hornady ONE SHOT that it takes less pressure on my press leverage arm than with any other lubes I have used. It spreads out and puts such a thin film on the cases too, that I have not had dents in the shoulders or anything. One or two MAYBE when I put too much spray on, but not like other lubes I've tried. When I spray my neck brush, I let it dry for a minute or two so that all of the liquid lube is now dry before I brush my case necks. Only a very very small amount will actually stay on the inside of the case neck. Just enough to ease the pressure of the expander ball coming back out of the case after the neck has been squeezed down.

I hope this helps. I have not had any contamination problems as I noted earlier, and supposedly using the ONE SHOT spray eases the resizing issue to the point that you don't have as much case growth as you do with other lubes. When the expander ball is pulled back through the case neck with some of the other lubes, it pulls some brass and makes the neck slightly longer.

I am going to call Hornady just to make absolutely certain that what I told you about turning the cases over and spraying again is correct and is what I believe they are saying on the can.

David