270 Win Load for Caribou

[Army SGM Retired]

All, should I be concern with bullet seating going in easy? Some bullets I have to really get down on the Lyman press but some just slide in. Is there a “pull the bullet” torque pressure that I should be looking for? I’m using Lee Deluxe 3 Die set and I pushed FL sizing the new Winchester brass. I’m sure they want fall out but is there a caution for bullet seating? Also on my RCBS powder dispenser, it seems that some grains get caught when I’m pulling the arm up/down with either H4831sc or IMR 4831. Do you just push/pull harder or is there something wrong??

BREAK

Scotty, the Marine Det is going a little south of where I stated before. See ya.

 

[DrMike]

All things being equal, you want consistency. Ergo, for the highest degree of accuracy you want the same neck tension on each cartridge. You might try running the virgin brass through the die w/o the expander ball to shape the neck to a consistent minimum tension. It doesn't hurt to run the expander ball through the neck, but it will be quicker to simply ensure that the neck is at minimum specs. I use a mandrel of the appropriate size to "iron out" any wrinkles on new brass, but the die will accomplish the same thing if it is needed.

The issue with the powder dispenser is pretty common. Again, as much as possible, consistency is the key. You will "crunch" some sticks of powder. Technically, it does change burn conditions. Practically, it is not a major problem. FWIW, I have found that for tests in which powder charges vary, a glass dish with a silver spoon is as quick as a powder dispenser.

Out of curiosity, what sort of groups are you getting? If they are acceptable, don't worry too much at this time. You can refine technique after the hunt.

It really sounds as if you are on target for this hunt. It will be great for a father/son hunt. As I said previously, with a maximum charge of 58 grains of H4831SC, you will have a maximum point blank range of 294 yards. Caribou are funny critters. While you can certainly be presented with some long shots, up close and personal shots are not out of the norm.

 

[Army SGM Retired]

Got to reading the Nozler book ref sizing die for my 270 round and I had missed a part (or forgot to perform the task) about taking Q-tip with case lube and place a small touch inside the neck prior to sizing. Now, with that said is this a required step?? Is this why some bullets seat tight and some are lose??

 

[DrMike]

Lubing the neck is to permit the expander ball to size the neck without clatter. You should have the lube removed before either charging the case or seating the bullet. I prefer a dry lube, such as graphite (e.g. Imperial Application Media) or motor mica. This will not contaminate the powder and yet lubricates quite well. Alternatively, I have had good success with Hornady One Shot, which is not a petroleum based lubricant and is thus less likely to lead to contamination problems.

 

[Army SGM Retired]

Wow, I really screwed up. My son told me of one shot but I had already bought case lube. I do have graphite and will use after I shoot tomorrow. Thanks. Do you have to clean the brass after each shot or can you go a couple till cleaning??

 

[DrMike]

I prefer to clean the brass after firing, keeping it segregated on the basis of number of firings and manufacturer and even by lot number if you are really fussy. The purpose for cleaning is to ensure there is no dirt or grit adhering to the case that could scratch my sizing die.

If you don't have a tumbler, you can inspect your cases and wipe them with a clean cloth to remove any grit that may adhere. Alternatively, you can place them in some warm water with a bit of dish washing liquid and vinegar added. Swish them around with your hand to remove any grime. Make certain you dry them thoroughly before attempting to primer and/or charge them. If you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner, bonus. At the least you will want to brush out residue from the neck to permit the expander ball to work without galling on the residue.

 

[DrMike]

My son told me of one shot but I had already bought case lube. I do have graphite and will use after I shoot tomorrow.

If you use case lube, which works just fine, simply make certain you remove all traces before charging the case. You can tumble in corncob media, use a paper towel wadded up and run into the neck, or a Q-Tip to remove any residue, but you don't want to contaminate your charge. If you use a dry lube, a little in a snuff tin or a small dish will suffice. Dip the neck into the lube (graphite, motor mica) and tap it to remove any excess.

 

[Army SGM Retired]

I do have a tumbler so I will send them through each time. Is there a way to keep brass in the same lot batch with a mark on the case with perm pen? I have the ones I load in sandwich bags with my log number on each. I also have an excel spreadsheet that I have created that covers everything except the moon phases. Not sure how “fussy” I should get? Want to cover all bases cause it’s to hard to create after the fact. Is there a place that gives me an idea of a good sheet of info to capture?

 

[SJB358]

SGM, I will tumble every time. As Mike said, it keeps your cases cleaner, so you can inspect for splits and other abnormalities, and it also keeps your dies clean. That is the most important part for me. It sounds like you have your recording down pat. I have a load book and mark batches of cases using the same method as you. Doesn't need to be rocket surgery!

Have you gotten a chance to shoot any of your loads yet? If you can get swing, get the Imperial Sizing Wax, and the mica Mike speaks of. Those two are awesome lubes and will minimize your headaches. I used the RCBS lube for quite awhile and it was good, but Imperial is great and seems like it will last forever. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Scotty makes a good point that is too easy to overlook. Cases need to be inspected to ensure they are safe to use. Wiping them down after tumbling permits such inspection.

I restrict brass to the same lot number only for ammunition I intend to use for hunting (or bragging occasionally). Otherwise, I segregate it into ice cream pails marked for the number of firings (usually after the second firing). From these pails, I use only brass of the same manufacturer. I keep a record of my loads, including the brass manufacturer and number of times fired. My records are in a bound journal for each cartridge, listing case, primer, OAL, bullet, powder and velocity maximum from either estimates or measured. I also record the charge, measured velocity and standard deviation and group size for each batch of ammunition. There is also a space to tape my target if it is to be kept. There is also room for notes (temperature, wind speed and direction, atmospheric conditions, ancillary observations).

 

[6mm Remington]

Good luck on your hunt. I load for a friends .270 Win and it really likes the H4831SC with magnum primers, and IMR4350 with standard LR primers. That's a great bullet you chose. Let us know how it performs!!

 

[Army SGM Retired]

Scotty and DrMike, Thanks for the info. I have not seen Imperial Wax or Motor Mica, will check BassPro at Birmingham Tuesday when I go down. Don’t think Gander Mt. stocks that kind stuff. Some times I was thinking about opening a “Reloading Shop”, seems like there are not that many around unless you web order. Is the Midway site about the only way to go??? DrMike, I have all the areas you mention on my log sheet except keeping the target. The big day is tomorrow around 0730 hrs. Got all the equipment in the floor so will give report upon return. Got to shoot early, will hit 100 degrees around noon and the chronograph book says that’s not good. Just hope I don’t shoot the chrono on the first shot, got to remember to look down the barrel before shot out!! My day might end earlier than I think. 6mm Rem brings up a question, can you use “Magnum” primers on non magnum brass??? I was going to try CCI but the book said WLR so that’s what it gets. Scotty, remember you or DrMike saying you could use the others but you did not say Mags. Is there some brass that are “Thicker” and you can use Mag Primers? Is there books on this topic of the do’s and don’ts on how much one could vary from the Nosler #6 book?

 

[DrMike]

Mag and Standard Large Rifle primers are the same size. Hence, they will fit your case so long as it takes a large rifle primer. The mag primers burn hotter. There is no problem using them. Just take time to work up the load from a safe minimum as magnum primers will likely increase pressure, and the increase can be significant if you are already near maximum pressure. Generally, standard primers will work with a magnum charge. However, there is always the possibility of incomplete ignition. As a general rule of thumb, use magnum primers with ball powders or if you are shooting in extremely cold weather (say -15 Celsius or lower). Also, if your charge exceeds approximately 70 grains, a magnum primer is probably your best choice. The sole exception to this general rule are the short magnums. Because they have a shorter powder column, you can usually get away with a standard rifle primer and still get complete ignition of the powder charge. Several of my best loads for the short magnums use standard rifle primers. It would not hurt to use a magnum primer, but the standard primer works just fine.

 

[Army SGM Retired]

OK, can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Will get through the first firing and then we can get into the “Max Pressure” issue. I was only looking at velocity and bullet drop for distance. More to follow. Thanks..

 

[DrMike]

SGM,

Sinclair has motor mica (http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=32602/Product/FORSTER_Refill_Motor_Mica), Imperial Application Media (http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33148/Product/Imperial_Application_Media) and Imperial Sizing Way (http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33078/Product/Imperial_Die_Wax). The same appears to be true for Midway (e.g. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=519525 and http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=892537) and Midsouth (e.g. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0007621022). These are common products that you should be able to secure easily. It will be good to hear how your shoot goes tomorrow.

 

[SJB358]

Good luck out at the range SGM. Hope it goes well. It sounds like you have your shooting dialed in. Looking forward to seeing your results. Scotty

 

[Army SGM Retired]

OK, I'm back and I did not blow the BOSS off the A-Bolt. Wow, not sure of what all these numbers mean or even where to start. I did shoot a .75 inch group and even a 1.99 inch (Factory Load). So what do you look for in the numbers?? I have the High/Low Velocity, Average Velocity, Extreme Spread, and Standard Deviation. I also measured all groups sizes. Now what?? Do I load different powder, brass, primers? What is good, group I think but the average velocity was 2697 which puts bullet drop bad (I think after looking at Nosler #6 data in back). Need some sort of point in the correct direction. Thanks.

 

[SJB358]

SGM, I am not sure what your charge was, but I think you have some space to add for powder. 2697 is pretty low, I would think 2900-3000 approximately would be more in line with a 270 and 140gr bullet. I would start bumping your charges up .5 grains, up to the max charge listed. Also, check out Hodgdons site. They will list a 140gr bullet, max charge of your powder (H4831) and what psi they are getting. You may or may not get to their max, but it gives you a great place to work to.

As for your other numbers, like SD, ES and the others, I would look for the least spread that is possible. Because the numbers are larger doesn't make it accurate, just consistent. I know those are contradictory, but it is the facts. I would work up to a reasonable max, and then tune your BOSS, that is the beauty of it. Once you get to your rifles max charge, then start changing your BOSS in one direction or another. You should be able to start shrinking your groups. Sounds like you had some good ones at 3/4". You are doing pretty well. Scotty

 

[Army SGM Retired]

I agree on the velocity low, the 2697 average was from Nosler book 6 with 140 Accu Bd, H4831sc, loaded at 56.0 gr.. I thought I should be at 2800ish but the high was 2715 and low 2666 with 3rd round coming in at 2710. Book shows that load at 92% with Max load of 58.0gr loaded at 95%. The highest velocity was 2812 loaded with H4831sc at 57.5 gr. I have checked the powder throw each time and even trickled the last grains to bring them to within specs. I even shot some IMR 4831 loaded with 51.5 gr, it came in at average velocity of 2652 and a group of .90 inch. The second load of IMR 4831 of 53.0 gr came in at 2739 with book answer at of 53.5 gr. (Max Load) coming in at 2910. I don’t think .5 gr would jump the speed up that much?? Are most loads in the book come in lower than actual velocity? Will clean gun and brass tonight getting ready for next round. Thanks Scotty.

 

[SJB358]

SGM, you are getting normal speeds for the amount of powder you are burning. I love all things Nosler and really like their manual, but very few cartridges I load are getting the speed they advertise per grain of powder, which is why the chrono is such a great tool. It sounds like your accuracy is good to very good, and you have just gotten started. I would continue to load towards book max's and monitor your cases and such for signs of pressure. You are right on track and things look really well from my side. I think if you ask, some of the good fellers will run a Quickload on your bullet and rifle combo and give you some idea of what to expect and some better data to work with. Although, your IMR load looks good, as does the H4831. I think if you get into the 2850-2900 range you will be in good shape. A 100FPS will not make much difference for ranges out to 500 yards. If you are shooting little groups and have confidence in your accuracy and load, that will make much more difference on your shot. Scotty

140 GR. SFT SP IMR 4831 3.280" 50.6 2738 44,400 CUP 54.0 2896 50,700 CUP

140 GR. SFT SP H4831 3.280" 54.0 2716 43,900 CUP 58.0C 2888 50,100 CUP