270 win 150gr Accubond long range wont group

jeepinhntr

Beginner
Nov 3, 2019
11
5
Hey guys I am having a rough go on working up a new load for my 270 win. It's a rem 700 w/22" 1/10" twist barrel with around 500 rounds through it. I've loaded 160 partitions with H4831SC and .030" jump and shot sub moa but haven't been able to get my hands on them for some time so i tried the new 150 ABLR to SAAMI spec in nosler book (55gr H4831SC seated to 3.34" C.O.A.L. with WLR primer) they shot ok menaing 1 1/2 groups but I am trying to improve on it using H4831SC I initially started loading hornady 145ge ELD-X bullets and after 80 of those loaded at different seating depths every .010" jump from lands to SAAMI spec and not one grouped under 4" with 5 shot group. Switched powder to IMR 4831 and RL 22 an played with primers WLR, WLRM, FED. 210 Rem. 9 1/2. Cases R/P are all fire formed neck sized and bumped .002" back and trimmed to 3.330" they have all been stainless tumbled, dried, necks scrubbed. And failed miserably. I just loaded 40 ABLR using 59.5 H4831SC and seated them every .010" from lands to .080" jump and I got about 3 inch groups vs ELD-X 4-5" groups. MV was 3050fps with SD of 7. And all groups look about the same. I can shoot my original loads and it shoots 1- 1 1/2" groups. I am letting barrel cool between each 5 shot group have rigorously cleaned it before going out each time. I just loaded up some slow loads (51, 52, 53gr H4831SC) to see if it's a speed thing. I am also wondering about neck tension because with bullets seated .030" off lands the C.O.A.L. is 3.550" which still feeds but there is approximately only half of the neck is touching the bearing surface of bullet before the boat tail if that makes sense. I dunno if i have too much :free bore" to load off the lands or not but I'm plum out of tricks I've loaded many loads in .223 and .243 that shoot lights out but I'm striking out on this one. Any help would be much appreciated. Sorry for the novel but figured the more info the better.
 

xphunter

Handloader
Sep 15, 2005
401
616
The first culprit is likely what Thebear posted - twist rate.
Below is probably not the main issue, but I did notice.
FWIW-I wouldn't be "rigorously cleaning" after every range visit, unless you are shooting more than 75-100 rounds at a time. Your barrel will probably shoot better fouled.
In my recent "Once in a lifetime" thread, I probably had 60-70 (Maybe more down the tube) when I made those kills at a 1K+
Every barrel is different, but I typically clean somewhere around 75 to 200 rounds (Depends on chambering, and on the individual barrel).
If it is a 308, I just wait until it's accuracy starts to fade.
With some barrels, it may take 5-10 rounds for it to be fouled properly to shoot it's best.
Just food for thought.
 

jeepinhntr

Beginner
Nov 3, 2019
11
5
And that very may well be the case I know it shoots 140gr AB 1 1/4". I'm out at the range now and I just shot first group with 51gr H4831SC and it went 1 1/4" but I may never get smaller than that due to twist rate like you guys said, or just my barrel sucks
 

Tjay

Beginner
Mar 19, 2015
211
40
I would try two things. Start with your most accurate load and keep seating the bullet deeper. In my 270 it likes a lot of jump. I would also stop cleaning and see if it shoots better as you get some fouling. I have several that shoot great when dirty.
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,791
310
I'be been trying to get the 7MM 150 gr. ABLT to stabilize in three rifles chambered to the 7x57 Mauser. The Ruger #1 is a 1 in 9" I think but the M70 Featherweight is 1in 8 5/16 as is a custom Mauser. Both rifle shoot 175 gr. spitzer boat tails just fine. A said, "The ABLRs are avery finicky bullets."
Paul B.
 

JD338

Range Officer
Staff member
Nov 4, 2004
21,843
1,220
I'be been trying to get the 7MM 150 gr. ABLT to stabilize in three rifles chambered to the 7x57 Mauser. The Ruger #1 is a 1 in 9" I think but the M70 Featherweight is 1in 8 5/16 as is a custom Mauser. Both rifle shoot 175 gr. spitzer boat tails just fine. A said, "The ABLRs are avery finicky bullets."
Paul B.
Paul,
My experience is just the opposite. My 280AI has a 1:9 twist and shoots the 150 gr ABLR at 3100 fps and .5 MOA. Awesome bullet for WT deer, the are DRT from 50-450 yards with a lung shot.

JD338
 

Lou270

Beginner
Dec 22, 2004
25
10
1-10 is fine for this bullet. Of course your rifle may not be 1-10 but that is standard 270. ABLR seem to be pretty finicky in general. Try seating deeper - .1 or .15 off even if close is not working. In general I have had few instances where a historically accurate rifle really hates the high bc vld type bullets. I mean 4-6” groups with bergers 165 30 cal and slightly better with 200 eld in 1-10 but very accurate with a traditional tangent ogive. This type of bullet seem to be more sensitive to throat geometries.

Another thing I noticed with ablr in particular is nose is very soft. Can get dented pretty easily by seating if any neck tension. I noticed this on rounds I loaded and did a search and found similar on net. Not sure if would cause signiifcant accuracy problems or not

Lou
 

TackDriver284

Handloader
Feb 13, 2016
1,793
468
I'be been trying to get the 7MM 150 gr. ABLT to stabilize in three rifles chambered to the 7x57 Mauser. The Ruger #1 is a 1 in 9" I think but the M70 Featherweight is 1in 8 5/16 as is a custom Mauser. Both rifle shoot 175 gr. spitzer boat tails just fine. A said, "The ABLRs are avery finicky bullets."
Paul B.
I remembered trying the ABLR in my 7 Mag a few years ago, and tried to get it to shoot on a few occasions but could not get it to group, it sure was a fussy one and gave up on it. Switched to the 160 AccuBond.
 

jeepinhntr

Beginner
Nov 3, 2019
11
5
I was able to get it to shoot great, honestly the best group I've seen from the rifle. Had 4 touching and the 5th was 3/8" right which is probably me to be honest. I havent measured but its 3/4 moa or less but it was with 53gr H4831SC seated .030" off lands. I had 5 loaded with 51, 52, 53 gr H4831SC and seated .010" .020", .030", .040" and .050" and they like going slow and .030" jump. They must really not like any sort of velocity out of my barrel. I had them going 3050fps+ but they really shot great down around 2800fps. Have any of you guys had similar issues where you had to slow them down? Maybe powder issue I think try RL22.Idk with short barrel if trying to max out velocity is whats killing accuracy accross the board (multiple bullet types) I've heard of people pushing them hard and was hoping todo the same. I was really hoping they would group at 3050fps cause the ballistics are quite nice And as far as cleaning goes I was only cleaning between range trips 40-50 rounds per trip.
 

xphunter

Handloader
Sep 15, 2005
401
616
Good for you.
You stayed with it, and found something that worked!
The determination paid off.
You found a node that is on the light side.
The one that I seem to find, is at the one at the verge of too much pressure or just beyond that. Which means, I don't use it.
I don't own any .277 chamberings, so I looked around and saw that some guys had success with that bullet with the same twist rate you have, and others did not. I have read that they can be finicky at times.
I shoot shorty barrels all of the time (14"-18") and I pretty much use the same powder that typical rifle lengths use. In cartridges like 6.5-06 and the 6.5-284, I have been known to a slightly faster powder, say H-4350, in stead of H-4831 with great results.
What is a max range when hunting for you?
One of the few rifle kills for me, I used the outfitter's rifle, since it is illegal to hunt with a handgun in New Zealand. That rifle shot the LRAB, and it did a dandy job at 624 yards on a big Stag. Different caliber/cartridge though.
Tdg5Z2Ll.jpg
 

jeepinhntr

Beginner
Nov 3, 2019
11
5
Good for you.
You stayed with it, and found something that worked!
The determination paid off.
You found a node that is on the light side.
The one that I seem to find, is at the one at the verge of too much pressure or just beyond that. Which means, I don't use it.
I don't own any .277 chamberings, so I looked around and saw that some guys had success with that bullet with the same twist rate you have, and others did not. I have read that they can be finicky at times.
I shoot shorty barrels all of the time (14"-18") and I pretty much use the same powder that typical rifle lengths use. In cartridges like 6.5-06 and the 6.5-284, I have been known to a slightly faster powder, say H-4350, in stead of H-4831 with great results.
What is a max range when hunting for you?
One of the few rifle kills for me, I used the outfitter's rifle, since it is illegal to hunt with a handgun in New Zealand. That rifle shot the LRAB, and it did a dandy job at 624 yards on a big Stag. Different caliber/cartridge though.
Tdg5Z2Ll.jpg
That's awesome and hunting range out here (utah) is 500-600 is my distance but want to also practice and longer ranges for fun hence shooting the ABLR to do both and not need to have 2 loads and sight in each time. I would like to ring a gong at 1k every now and again and don't have the budget for a new long range specific gun build.
 

xphunter

Handloader
Sep 15, 2005
401
616
I ran some quick drops through shooter (150 LRAB @ 2800 fps) and at 4500 feet elevation with a 100 yard zero, your MOA correction at 500 yards with a 10 mph FV wind is: 7.5 MOA for drop and 2.5 for wind, with a impact velocity of 2183 fps, and at 750 yards it is: 14.5 drop, 3.75 for wind, and 1909 for impact velocity.
Even at 1K your impact velocity is still 1654 fps.
Keep tweaking your god load with playing a bit more with seat depth, and you are good.
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,355
652
As said, a little tighter twist may help, but I’ve found the ABLR to be a fickle beast. I’ve only gotten it to shoot “good” in one rifle. And then it was a looong jump at .150”
Same here!

I think you have enough twist, while not the best it is enough. I would keep pushing them back in .025 increments. I have had ABLR's run me through the ringer a few times. The only two I ever got to great satisfaction were the 175 ABLR in my Mashburn and the 150 ABLR in my Tikka 270 Win with RL26.

Don't go bonkers, if they just aren't coming around there are others out there.

The 4" groups with the 145 ELDX does concern me some. Might be worth checking screws, mounts, crown, etc over.
 

xphunter

Handloader
Sep 15, 2005
401
616
As mentioned...Crown and bedding, besides the normal things loosening up tend to be the biggest culprits
 

rod

Beginner
Jun 30, 2022
8
6
I was able to get it to shoot great, honestly the best group I've seen from the rifle. Had 4 touching and the 5th was 3/8" right which is probably me to be honest. I havent measured but its 3/4 moa or less but it was with 53gr H4831SC seated .030" off lands. I had 5 loaded with 51, 52, 53 gr H4831SC and seated .010" .020", .030", .040" and .050" and they like going slow and .030" jump. They must really not like any sort of velocity out of my barrel. I had them going 3050fps+ but they really shot great down around 2800fps. Have any of you guys had similar issues where you had to slow them down? Maybe powder issue I think try RL22.Idk with short barrel if trying to max out velocity is whats killing accuracy accross the board (multiple bullet types) I've heard of people pushing them hard and was hoping todo the same. I was really hoping they would group at 3050fps cause the ballistics are quite nice And as far as cleaning goes I was only cleaning between range trips 40-50 rounds per trip.
on every 270 I ever helped anyone with that RL-22 or RL-19 shot best ,, not temp stable and seems to burn hot to me but dead deer don't care
 
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