270 winchester, weatherby vanguard

[tyson22250]

Need a little advice here.... I have been doing some load development in a 270 winchester. The gun is a weatherby vanguard. This particular gun has the clip. I am reloading 130gr Accubonds, problem with this clip is that it is short and will only allow for a COAL of 3.250". I am shooting Remington 130gr sp corelockts into a 3/4-1 inch group. with the clip being so short i am very limited to overall length. Worked through IMR 4350, CCI BR2, and 130 gr accubonds, and no real promissing loads, worked through H4350 and nothing great there either. Figured I would move to a slower powder. Normally i have a pound of good old H4831 on hand but i dont at this time. Next powder i have on the shelf is reloader 22. Using CCI Br2s again i worked through reloader 22 went up to 58grs as per Noslers reloading manual and quit there. 4 shot group gave me two shots touching and two that were wait out there... not human error.i Beleive i could proably go another grain or two and still be within safe measures.This is where i could use some advice... what should i do next? Pick up a pound of H4831? Try a different primer, i have some cci 200, cci 250, federal 210, and fed 215s. The Remington factory shells are crimped, wondering if maybe i should use a crimp? Any advise or suggestions feel free to give a fella some advise. anyone else work through loads on Weatherby Vanuards?

 

[Oldtrader3]

My load for the .270 Win is 55.0 gr of IMR 4350 with a standard LR primer and the 130 gr Partition. This load chrono's at 3060 fps and is way under MOA in group size. I have used this load in (3) different .270 Win rifles all with the same result. Using BR-2 primers just makes it better and more consistant. No crimp and COAL is at about book because of foreward ogive on PT bullet.

 

[DrMike]

When restricted by magazine, you will need to adjust powder and charge or test different bullet/powder combinations. I'd be inclined to load to the magazine and test across the charge spectrum with a chosen powder (RL22 is a good one, as is H4831sc), paying particular attention to standard deviation when getting chronograph readings. That will serve to indicate a good area to inspect for consistency.

 

[tyson22250]

I tried IMR4350 right up to 55grs. Groups were horrible 2 inch. That was me and another guy shooting it at 4 shot groups.

 

[Oldtrader3]

You may have to try another bullet in that .270 Win? I shoot mostly Partitions but have also had good luck with Speer Grand Slam bullets in the .270 Win. Also, many have had good luck with IMR 4831 at 59.0 grains in the .270 Win.

Odd that it won't shoot the IMR 4350? I have never seen a .270 Win that would not shoot either that or 4831? Maybe others on this forum have some experience with 130 gr Accubonds in Vanguards and can help you?

 

[hubcap]

A max of 3.250 for .270 cal. does not sound right. That means your clip would not accept a 130 power point factory load which measures 3.295. Do ya have the correct clip? My 700 remmy clip will accept a sammi max of 3.340. Something is fishy here. :roll: :roll:

 

[tyson22250]

yes i have the right clip, It is a very short clip indeed. I know must all other 270 s that i had reloaded for are hinged floor plate and i was able to have an OAL of at least 3.340" plus.

 

[hubcap]

The trouble with AB,s and BT,s is due to there long length they begin to infringe upon your case capacity when seated clear down to 3.250. I,d stick with core locks, the pro hunter or the Partition. Imr 4350 should work well with 130,s. I have in the past used rem cases, cci-200 primers and sierra 130,s with excellent results.

 

[super-7]

The vangaurd clips may be hampering your development, If you can load a few longer and use as a single shot to determine if your groups will shrink. If they do then you'll have to hunt down a floor plate, I know they make the conversion from hinged to detachable, so you may have to make a horse trade with someone to go back the other way. A side note, I like remmy brass and I ussually by remmy factory ammo and shoot it for my once fired brass. I find the core loct jackets a tad soft and always have to give a thorough cleaning/copper removal after 50 rounds or so. May help.

 

[PJGunner]

From what I've heard, the vanguard is just a Howa and they have a pretty good reputation for accuracy. I load for four rifles in .270 and all four rifles thrive on the 150 gr. gr. Sierra Game King over a stiff load of Winchester Magnum Rifle (WMR) powder. Too bad Winchester dropped it about ten years ago.
What I think I would do in your situation is go and buy a box of Sierra 130 gr. Pro-Hunters, or Game Kings if you prefer, or heck, try both. If that rifle won't shoot one of those trwo bullets well, then I'd be thinking something might be radically wrong. Before I switched to WMR for my .270, I was using H4831. I may have even tried some IMR4831 with 130 gr. bullets but it's been so long since I used 4831 for anything and I've lost my notes for that powder.
One thing that has worked well for me with come cartridges is I'd do the work up with Sierras and then, drop back a bit and work back up with Nosler Partitions. I'd use the Sierras for deer and the Noslers for bigger stuff.
If you're shooting Remington bulk bullets, you might want to try something else. A while back I bought 300 Winchester 150 gr. 7MM Power Points to use in my 7x57. Total junk. The weight vairation was plus or minus two full grains from the stated weight. That's 180 to 152 gr. max to min in weight. Three 7x57s, a .280 Remington and a 7MM Rem. Mag all shoot shotgun patterns with those bullets. I'll probably throw them in my lead pot to salvage the lead and sell the jackets to the scrap dealer.
Anyway, try the Sierras. If that rifle won't shoot those well. probably won't shoot anything well. I'd then send it back to Weatherby for repair and squawk like hell about that too short magazine.
Paul B.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Tyson, pick up a pound of H4831, and stick with the CCI 200's, load to magazine length, and work up. I'd be suprised if you didn't find something that didn't shoot well. If the Nosler's won't shoot, go to a Speer flat base bullet.

 

[gerry]

Another option would be the 130 gr E Tip since that style of bullet usually likes a bit of a jump before it hits the lands.

 

[idcurrie]

That means your clip would not accept a 130 power point factory load which measures 3.295. Do ya have the correct clip? My 700 remmy clip will accept a sammi max of 3.340. Something is fishy here

Indeed it is NOT the correct clip. Weatherby has never made a Vanguard with a detachable box magazine for 270. The kit you buy is also not compatible with 270.

 

[hubcap]

That means your clip would not accept a 130 power point factory load which measures 3.295. Do ya have the correct clip? My 700 remmy clip will accept a sammi max of 3.340. Something is fishy here

Indeed it is NOT the correct clip. Weatherby has never made a Vanguard with a detachable box magazine for 270. The kit you buy is also not compatible with 270.

I recall cooking some handloads for a 270 vanguard in the early 80,s. It did not have a detachable mag. The rifle had a smooth action with a 24 inch barrel and was nothing but sweet. It was a real shooter as well. I do know that factory loaded 130 core lokts are loaded right at 3.250 coal. I,ve never loaded for any .270 rifle that short. I think the bullet jump to the lands would be rather substantial at such a short coal. Hmmmm.

 

[Guest]

I can't speak to whether or not the clip is correct. I can tell you Weatherby currently makes a clip for the -06 family of cartridges (25-06Rem, 270Win, & 30-06 currently chambered in the Vanguard). What they made in the past is anyone's guess.

I can also tell you that a long jump to the lands isn't necessarily a problem for accuracy. I have yet to find a rifle in my safe that shoots best close to the lands. The nearest to that is my 8x57 Rem700, and it's happy about .030" off the lands, which I don't deem close. My most accurate rifle by far is my 270Wby, and the bullet will fall out of the case before it reaches the lands, so seating depth there is "mag length or shorter" and nothing else.

With regard to the rifle you're working on right now, if it's shooting the 130gr Core-Lokt factory ammo at 1" or less, I'd sure start with some flat-based 130gr bullets from Nosler, Hornady, or Speer, and I'd set them at that ogive length if it will feed through the magazine. I'd start with a trusted standby powder for the 270Win, as well. Reloder 22 is one, but it's also temperature sensitive in my experience, and doesn't get a lot of use on my bench because of that. H4831 is a great choice, and likely the most "standard" 270Win powder out there. For sheer charge volume in the case due to short seating, you could also try Accurate MagPro. Do like Dr. Mike and others have said, and work up from start to max charge, looking for the consistency sweet spot. I'm betting if you chrono the factory ammo and try to duplicate it in length and velocity, you'll get real close, real quick. Also, it might be worth checking with Weatherby about a magazine and floorplate if you'd like to load a little longer.

 

[idcurrie]

I did some research and you are correct about the DBM and the 270. The one that I was looking at at Cabela's listed the 30'06 but not the 270. Their website indicates it also works for the 270 which makes good sense.

My mistake.

How was the internal length of the magazine measured?

I've been thinking about dropping some $ on a DBM for my 30'06 Vanguard but not if it doesn't meet SAAMI specs for COAL....