35 Whelen vs. 35 Whelen AI vs. 338-06

[JD338]

Here's a 250 gr PT that was recovered in the 7th water jug.
MV was 2450 fps. The 250 gr PT penetrates almost into tomorrow.

JD338

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Hey Hawkeye- If you can get a solid 2900 in the standard Whelan with the 200 TTSX, you can use it in place of any 300WM up to 375yds! It will also kill like the 338WM and the 200X (used them both in South Africa) I found the 200X I used on my last trip with my 35 WAI to be just as effective as the 250X was on my first trip! Surprisingly, while I never had any, ever, headspace issues with the standard Whelan shoulder, I "did" with new cases in both the 9.3x62 and .404 Jeffry. My point being "I believe" the 35 Whelan has plenty of shoulder to headspace on. You will be one very fortunate man nowadays IF you can shoot yours enough to wear out the cases in a batch of 100! FWIW I have never played with the 225gr anything , I always stayed on each end, 200- 250/310. Good luck to you Pard.

That’s what I was hoping for, to get the hydrostatic shot up past the 300 WM, and reduce recoil at the same time.
I just bought a Mauser 98 in 8mm Mauser, with a 25 inch barrel, and I’m selling my Remington 78 Sportsman in .30-06. I wanted a little longer barrel for my rebore, and am going to rebore/rechamber the Mauser into a 35 Whelen with 3 groove rifling, and a 1 in 10 inch twist. I’m taking Scottie’s advice on that one. I want to see what that twist will do.
I’m thinking it may make the lighter weights not as accurate as the heavier bullets.


Hawk


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Hey Hawk I read that you are selling the Rem 78 to get more barrel length but that rifle would be an ideal candidate for reboring to 35 Whelen. Solid action unless you just like the Mauser style. Just a thought. Dan.

Hey there Dan!

I found a new candidate to be rebored to 35 Whelen.
It’s a Winchester 670 in 30-06 with a 22 inch barrel. I had to get this because stock dimensions fit me perfectly. I’ll probably just need to add a decent recoil pad on it now.



Hawk

That's a good one Hawk. I like them Winchesters also. With a good pad after rebore you'll be good to go. Be waiting to see how it works out for you. Dan.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Here's a 250 gr PT that was recovered in the 7th water jug.
MV was 2450 fps. The 250 gr PT penetrates almost into tomorrow.

JD338

That's textbook mushrooming right there!
Holy Cow! 7 water JUGS?!?
Did you get a shower you didn't expect after firing that round? LOL


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Hey Hawkeye- If you can get a solid 2900 in the standard Whelan with the 200 TTSX, you can use it in place of any 300WM up to 375yds! It will also kill like the 338WM and the 200X (used them both in South Africa) I found the 200X I used on my last trip with my 35 WAI to be just as effective as the 250X was on my first trip! Surprisingly, while I never had any, ever, headspace issues with the standard Whelan shoulder, I "did" with new cases in both the 9.3x62 and .404 Jeffry. My point being "I believe" the 35 Whelan has plenty of shoulder to headspace on. You will be one very fortunate man nowadays IF you can shoot yours enough to wear out the cases in a batch of 100! FWIW I have never played with the 225gr anything , I always stayed on each end, 200- 250/310. Good luck to you Pard.

That’s what I was hoping for, to get the hydrostatic shot up past the 300 WM, and reduce recoil at the same time.
I just bought a Mauser 98 in 8mm Mauser, with a 25 inch barrel, and I’m selling my Remington 78 Sportsman in .30-06. I wanted a little longer barrel for my rebore, and am going to rebore/rechamber the Mauser into a 35 Whelen with 3 groove rifling, and a 1 in 10 inch twist. I’m taking Scottie’s advice on that one. I want to see what that twist will do.
I’m thinking it may make the lighter weights not as accurate as the heavier bullets.


Hawk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Hawk I read that you are selling the Rem 78 to get more barrel length but that rifle would be an ideal candidate for reboring to 35 Whelen. Solid action unless you just like the Mauser style. Just a thought. Dan.

Hey there Dan!

I found a new candidate to be rebored to 35 Whelen.
It’s a Winchester 670 in 30-06 with a 22 inch barrel. I had to get this because stock dimensions fit me perfectly. I’ll probably just need to add a decent recoil pad on it now.



Hawk

That's a good one Hawk. I like them Winchesters also. With a good pad after rebore you'll be good to go. Be waiting to see how it works out for you. Dan.

Hey Dan!

I cut my teeth with a Winchester M70 XTR 24 inch barrel in .243 doing coyote and deer hunting. It didn't look too much different than this rifle I have now.
It was a tack driver.
Yup, definitely going to get a really good butt pad to put on this one now, since it'll be a whopper of a cartridge after I'm done with it.
I'm so excited to get it rebored to 35 Whelen! I can hardly wait!


Hawk

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[JD338]

Here's a 250 gr PT that was recovered in the 7th water jug.
MV was 2450 fps. The 250 gr PT penetrates almost into tomorrow.

JD338

That's textbook mushrooming right there!
Holy Cow! 7 water JUGS?!?
Did you get a shower you didn't expect after firing that round? LOL


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

Hawk,
That was about 10 years ago. As I recall, I was about 50 yards away from the jugs. I shot one into the jugs last fall in preparation for a bear hunt. This one was launched at 2580 fps. It was the same performance. I'll post a picture of that bullet which looks the same except it lost the front core. It's a tough bullet. I used it last year on a nice WT buck broadside at 50 yards. The PT went through both shoulders and dropped him dead where he stood.
It's a great bullet. BTW, it hits my 250 yard gong hard. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with that load at 400 yards.
Maybe brinky72 will chim I and tell you about our 35 Whelen's power.

JD338

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Here's a 250 gr PT that was recovered in the 7th water jug.
MV was 2450 fps. The 250 gr PT penetrates almost into tomorrow.

JD338

That's textbook mushrooming right there!
Holy Cow! 7 water JUGS?!?
Did you get a shower you didn't expect after firing that round? LOL


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

Hawk,
That was about 10 years ago. As I recall, I was about 50 yards away from the jugs. I shot one into the jugs last fall in preparation for a bear hunt. This one was launched at 2580 fps. It was the same performance. I'll post a picture of that bullet which looks the same except it lost the front core. It's a tough bullet. I used it last year on a nice WT buck broadside at 50 yards. The PT went through both shoulders and dropped him dead where he stood.
It's a great bullet. BTW, it hits my 250 yard gong hard. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with that load at 400 yards.
Maybe brinky72 will chim I and tell you about our 35 Whelen's power.

JD338

I don’t have any doubt that that load hits the steel gong with authority at 250 yds.
While the 35 Whelen isn’t a long range round, it can reach out and touch big animals with a lot of energy out to 450 - 500 yds from what I’ve been reading.
It takes a lot to stop the 250 gr bullet, even at regular hunting distances.
I sure do love the Nosler Partitions in any caliber. They have worked for decades.
With you getting 2580 fps, that’s a lot of steam behind that 250 gr bullet.
I love to read of the instances of where deer were bowled over, and the true claims of DRT. That’s exactly what I want right there! Although I have decent tracking skills, my body isn’t as willing anymore to do such a thing, so being able to have a cartridge/rifle combo like that is top on my list!

I would definitely like to hear @brinky72’s accounts as well.

The more the merrier I say!


Hawk

 

[JD338]

Here is last year's buck taken with the 35 Whelen and a 250 gr PT.

JD338

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Here is last year's buck taken with the 35 Whelen and a 250 gr PT.

JD338

You can tell that deer expired immediately!
That’s a cool pic!
Thank you!

Hawk

 

[preacher]

If you want a soft shooting whelen try to get ahold of one of the Remington 750s.

You have to keep loads fairly mellow but it is an absolute sweetheart to shoot. I eventually got rid of it because it was too pretty to beat up and there was no real quiet way to chamber a round. I don’t usually have one in the pipe unless I’m in the final stages of a stalk.

I had one too, a beautiful 750 Carbine, but waaay too pretty to hunt, ha.

 

[Brinky72]

Hawk; I finally found my way here after JD bumped me. I built my Whelen on a Ruger 77/Hawkeye SS action, Shilen 24” SS 1:14” barrel and a average Hogue pillar bedded stock. I put a wiggatinney (? Spelling) rail with an old school Leupold 3X9X40 scope from 1980 something. It’s about 8# and my hand loads with RL15 sends a 250 Speer down range at an average velocity of 2675-ish FPS. I too beat myself up with the standard v AI or 338-06 question. To say I’m happy with what I have is a gross understatement.
I haven’t used a 35AI, 338-06 or others mentioned so I can only speak for the standard Whelen. I just had it for a year now and have killed two deer and a black bear with it last season. Compared to other rifles I’ve used it kills and flattens deer and bear as good and better than anything I’ve owned. That list includes several 300 mags, a 450 Marlin and a stoutly loaded 45-70 Ruger No.1. I’ve had little issues with loading ammo as far as headspace issues. My only issues were growing pains that come with a tight chamber and throat as I opted for a match chamber to get the best accuracy out of it. That’s a whole other conversation. With prudent loading, a good 250 gr bullet and a little practice you’ll likely find your other rifles collecting dust. I have 250 grain Speer bullets, 59.5 grains of RL15 and standard rifle primers as my go to. This gives me about 2673FPS actual Chrono’d velocity. This is well above what book loads are but safe and well within safe pressure limits for MY RIFLE. many run up to 61 grains of 15 without issues. Again your rifle is its own entity so be safe. Again, I’m left not wanting when it comes to the standard Whelen in my rifle.

 

[Brinky72]

Here's a 250 gr PT that was recovered in the 7th water jug.
MV was 2450 fps. The 250 gr PT penetrates almost into tomorrow.

JD338

That's textbook mushrooming right there!
Holy Cow! 7 water JUGS?!?
Did you get a shower you didn't expect after firing that round? LOL


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

Hawk,
That was about 10 years ago. As I recall, I was about 50 yards away from the jugs. I shot one into the jugs last fall in preparation for a bear hunt. This one was launched at 2580 fps. It was the same performance. I'll post a picture of that bullet which looks the same except it lost the front core. It's a tough bullet. I used it last year on a nice WT buck broadside at 50 yards. The PT went through both shoulders and dropped him dead where he stood.
It's a great bullet. BTW, it hits my 250 yard gong hard. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with that load at 400 yards.
Maybe brinky72 will chim I and tell you about our 35 Whelen's power.

JD338

I don’t have any doubt that that load hits the steel gong with authority at 250 yds.
While the 35 Whelen isn’t a long range round, it can reach out and touch big animals with a lot of energy out to 450 - 500 yds from what I’ve been reading.
It takes a lot to stop the 250 gr bullet, even at regular hunting distances.
I sure do love the Nosler Partitions in any caliber. They have worked for decades.
With you getting 2580 fps, that’s a lot of steam behind that 250 gr bullet.
I love to read of the instances of where deer were bowled over, and the true claims of DRT. That’s exactly what I want right there! Although I have decent tracking skills, my body isn’t as willing anymore to do such a thing, so being able to have a cartridge/rifle combo like that is top on my list!

I would definitely like to hear @brinky72’s accounts as well.

The more the merrier I say!


Hawk

To add for details. The first deer I shot rolled over at impact and pretty much stayed put. Deer #2 fell immediately and some how “snow plowed” a short distance. Both hit in the engine room just behind the shoulder. The bear was treed over hounds and was about 12-15 feet up in a hemlock. I drilled it in the center of the ribs and the exit was right in between the shoulder blades. It came out of the tree backwards and hit the ground dead breaking its right femur. The guys backing me up were thoroughly impressed and hadn’t seen a bear drop like that before. Usual guns are 12 gauge slug guns, 06’, 270, 308 class. It made a good impression.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Hawk; I finally found my way here after JD bumped me. I built my Whelen on a Ruger 77/Hawkeye SS action, Shilen 24” SS 1:14” barrel and a average Hogue pillar bedded stock. I put a wiggatinney (? Spelling) rail with an old school Leupold 3X9X40 scope from 1980 something. It’s about 8# and my hand loads with RL15 sends a 250 Speer down range at an average velocity of 2675-ish FPS. I too beat myself up with the standard v AI or 338-06 question. To say I’m happy with what I have is a gross understatement.
I haven’t used a 35AI, 338-06 or others mentioned so I can only speak for the standard Whelen. I just had it for a year now and have killed two deer and a black bear with it last season. Compared to other rifles I’ve used it kills and flattens deer and bear as good and better than anything I’ve owned. That list includes several 300 mags, a 450 Marlin and a stoutly loaded 45-70 Ruger No.1. I’ve had little issues with loading ammo as far as headspace issues. My only issues were growing pains that come with a tight chamber and throat as I opted for a match chamber to get the best accuracy out of it. That’s a whole other conversation. With prudent loading, a good 250 gr bullet and a little practice you’ll likely find your other rifles collecting dust. I have 250 grain Speer bullets, 59.5 grains of RL15 and standard rifle primers as my go to. This gives me about 2673FPS actual Chrono’d velocity. This is well above what book loads are but safe and well within safe pressure limits for MY RIFLE. many run up to 61 grains of 15 without issues. Again your rifle is its own entity so be safe. Again, I’m left not wanting when it comes to the standard Whelen in my rifle.

@brinky72

Thank you for your advice and sharing your wisdom on the 35 Whelen.

I don’t doubt when you say that my other rifles might collect dust. I don’t mind that. I actually prefer that I use only rifle that can use many hats in different hunting situations.
You’re getting really good velocities! That’s a definite plus!
I’m just wondering what the velocity loss would be with a 2 inch lesser barrel?
The rifle above, my Winchester 670, is the one I want to rechamber / rebore, since the stock fits me extremely well. I might just keep the Weaver 4x that’s already on it. Unless I can find a good scope that has a long enough body to fit the rings.
Is having a tighter chamber with a 1 in 14 twist the way to go, you think?
I’m thinking about sending it off to JES and have them rebore to a 3 groove, and a 1 in 12 inch twist.
I’ve been wondering if I want a normal throat, maybe a tad longer, or a slightly tighter throat?
I would like to get decent velocities, within safe parameters, like your custom Ruger Hawkeye 77.
I know the 35 Whelen can be safely loaded up to 62k psi, and have amazing velocities with 200 gr to 225 gr bullets, but the bread and butter weight is the 250gr bullets.
I’m curious as to what you may have to say.


Hawk

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Here's a 250 gr PT that was recovered in the 7th water jug.
MV was 2450 fps. The 250 gr PT penetrates almost into tomorrow.

JD338

That's textbook mushrooming right there!
Holy Cow! 7 water JUGS?!?
Did you get a shower you didn't expect after firing that round? LOL


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

Hawk,
That was about 10 years ago. As I recall, I was about 50 yards away from the jugs. I shot one into the jugs last fall in preparation for a bear hunt. This one was launched at 2580 fps. It was the same performance. I'll post a picture of that bullet which looks the same except it lost the front core. It's a tough bullet. I used it last year on a nice WT buck broadside at 50 yards. The PT went through both shoulders and dropped him dead where he stood.
It's a great bullet. BTW, it hits my 250 yard gong hard. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with that load at 400 yards.
Maybe brinky72 will chim I and tell you about our 35 Whelen's power.

JD338

I don’t have any doubt that that load hits the steel gong with authority at 250 yds.
While the 35 Whelen isn’t a long range round, it can reach out and touch big animals with a lot of energy out to 450 - 500 yds from what I’ve been reading.
It takes a lot to stop the 250 gr bullet, even at regular hunting distances.
I sure do love the Nosler Partitions in any caliber. They have worked for decades.
With you getting 2580 fps, that’s a lot of steam behind that 250 gr bullet.
I love to read of the instances of where deer were bowled over, and the true claims of DRT. That’s exactly what I want right there! Although I have decent tracking skills, my body isn’t as willing anymore to do such a thing, so being able to have a cartridge/rifle combo like that is top on my list!

I would definitely like to hear @brinky72’s accounts as well.

The more the merrier I say!


Hawk

To add for details. The first deer I shot rolled over at impact and pretty much stayed put. Deer #2 fell immediately and some how “snow plowed” a short distance. Both hit in the engine room just behind the shoulder. The bear was treed over hounds and was about 12-15 feet up in a hemlock. I drilled it in the center of the ribs and the exit was right in between the shoulder blades. It came out of the tree backwards and hit the ground dead breaking its right femur. The guys backing me up were thoroughly impressed and hadn’t seen a bear drop like that before. Usual guns are 12 gauge slug guns, 06’, 270, 308 class. It made a good impression.

Holy Cow!!!

That’s exactly what I want right there!!

I’ve read the Nathan Foster Ballistic Studies about the 35 Whelen, and he has been impressed by it as well.
He had said that the hydraulic static shock the .358 cal bullet produces is quite amazing and that the 35 Whelen is such an amazing performer, even at the regular sedated velocities of the original round.
He did put a newer paragraph in there about the better powders that up the performance of the 35 Whelen without adding extra pressures.
I’ve been reading that the medium fast to faster burning powders work best now.
Have you used CFE223 yet?
Apparently that powder really gives the 35 Whelen “wings” might say.


Hawk

 

[Thebear_78]

If your wanting 358 Norma performance you should start with the 358 Norma. Why push the whelen. I fear building this rifle with 250s @ 2700fps expectations is setting yourself up for disappointment


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[Brinky72]

I've shot a mix of factory and handloads through my Whelen. I found that in the 700 Classic, the recoil with Superformance loads was enough to pinch nerves in my shoulder, causing fingers in my shooting hand to go numb. That's not like anything I've had happen with any other rifle I own, though the largest bore is a 375 Ruger. I also found that even in the 22 inch barrel, my particular rifle averaged only 10fps below advertised with the Hornady load. Remington 200 and 250 grain loads were smooth. All shot accurately.

For handloads, I shoot a lot of Speer, because of the cost, and well, they work. 180's and 250's seem to do very well for accuracy and expansion, even at moderate velocities. I've loaded the 250 grain Partition for it as well and found it accurate, but no experience with expansion - though I've no reason to doubt the performance. Also shot quite a few Hornady FTX, which I believe are designed for the 35 Rem. They're accurate enough for me, and I can push them at modest velocities still well above 35 Rem and below 35 Whelen max.



Lots of flexibility.

You need a new/different recoil pad. JD338 has a 700 classic with the “red brick” recoil pad and my Whelen has much less felt recoil. I have a Hogue over molded stock on mine. Nothing too fancy but it kicks much less than a 700 classic.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

If your wanting 358 Norma performance you should start with the 358 Norma. Why push the whelen. I fear building this rifle with 250s @ 2700fps expectations is setting yourself up for disappointment


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Oh no!
I’m not going to try and push the 250 gr bullet to 2700 fps. I like my fillings right where they are!
Now, if I can get 2500 - 2550 fps velocities, I will be pleased as punch.


Hawk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I've shot a mix of factory and handloads through my Whelen. I found that in the 700 Classic, the recoil with Superformance loads was enough to pinch nerves in my shoulder, causing fingers in my shooting hand to go numb. That's not like anything I've had happen with any other rifle I own, though the largest bore is a 375 Ruger. I also found that even in the 22 inch barrel, my particular rifle averaged only 10fps below advertised with the Hornady load. Remington 200 and 250 grain loads were smooth. All shot accurately.

For handloads, I shoot a lot of Speer, because of the cost, and well, they work. 180's and 250's seem to do very well for accuracy and expansion, even at moderate velocities. I've loaded the 250 grain Partition for it as well and found it accurate, but no experience with expansion - though I've no reason to doubt the performance. Also shot quite a few Hornady FTX, which I believe are designed for the 35 Rem. They're accurate enough for me, and I can push them at modest velocities still well above 35 Rem and below 35 Whelen max.



Lots of flexibility.

You need a new/different recoil pad. JD338 has a 700 classic with the “red brick” recoil pad and my Whelen has much less felt recoil. I have a Hogue over molded stock on mine. Nothing too fancy but it kicks much less than a 700 classic.

I don’t doubt that!
The stocks that have the Monte Carlo butt style work really well for me, and it helps reduce felt recoil for me as well.
For the time being, I may just use a slip on recoil pad until I get a really good decelerator pad, or I’ve been thinking about getting a synthetic stock for it, with a really good butt pad.


Hawk


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[Brinky72]

Yep. Tried both CFE223 and 2000MR. Both gave 2700+safely with a smidge less than max book (Speer) loads. 2000MR gave better accuracy in my rifle. I only had one pound of 2000MR so I have limited stock of those loads. Beauty with the Whelen is you will kill everything just as dead at 2400 FPS as you will at 2700 FPS. I’ve chatted with many a Whelen fan who have dumped rather large elk out past the 500 yard mark with mild loads and caught very few bullets even on raking shots. Find an accurate load running a good 250 grain bullet and don’t look back.

 

[Thebear_78]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on velocity. Have your rifle built, work up a load for accuracy, as long as it’s in the wheelhouse of expected velocity performance will be just fine. 2400-2550 there will be no practical performance difference.

I just know every time I’ve built a rifle planning a n a certain performance or even around a specific bullet it rarely goes according to plan


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[HAWKEYESATX]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on velocity. Have your rifle built, work up a load for accuracy, as long as it’s in the wheelhouse of expected velocity performance will be just fine. 2400-2550 there will be no practical performance difference.

I just know every time I’ve built a rifle planning a n a certain performance or even around a specific bullet it rarely goes according to plan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well noted!
Thank you.


Hawk