375 or 375 thats the question

[Antelope_Sniper]

I can down load a .375 RUM, but I don't think you can upload a .375 Ruger to Rum levels...
Has it really taken off?
I haven't seen Winchester Sako, or Remington chamber it in anything yet?

 

[Big Squeeze]

I can down load a .375 RUM, but I don't think you can upload a .375 Ruger to Rum levels...
Has it really taken off?
I haven't seen Winchester Sako, or Remington chamber it in anything yet?

................Didn`t need or want RUM levels or reduced loadings from a rifle that`s about 46.5" in OAL....25" tubed 375 H&H performance from the 40 3/4" OAL Alaskan is just fine. That`s the beauty of the 375 Ruger in the first place, the same 375 H&H performance and better from the shorter Ruger rifles.

As I stated before, the RUM puts too much sugar in the coffee. It is too fast, too overpowered for anything in N/A, has too much recoil to enjoy and aside from that, I`m not a big fan of the XCR`s stock. Why own a cartridge that you`re not going to load up to the rifle`s max or close to it? That`s like buying a Vette and then consistently driving like a little `ol lady or too conservatively.

The 375 Ruger didn`t need and doesn`t need to be chambered by Winchester, Sako, Remington or by anyone else to really take off. It already has taken off and is flying very high without them via the sales of the Ruger rifles alone. Maybe they will in the future. Howa now is chambering the 375 R in their 1500 line, which will be supposedly come out this year! And there is a pic of a CZ chambered in the 375 Ruger on the front cover of my `08 Hodgdon reloading manual. CZ may follow.

Lyman, Hodgdon, Hornady just to name a few, now have reloading data in their manuals.

And I`m willing to bet that at this stage and since the 375 R`s intro, there have been, there are, and there will continue to be, more lesser expensive Ruger rifles (African & Alaskan) sold chambered in the 375 Ruger, than are Remington XCR rifles chambered in the 375 RUM.

It`s like comparing a 300 Win to the 300 RUM. About the same power differential from the shorter Ruger tubes vs the longer RUM 26" tube. And within all average 375 (guided) hunting distances, regardless of game, the 375 H&H/Ruger performance levels are very adequate.

For hunting, the extra 150-200 fps by the 375 RUM over the 375 Ruger, is meaningless. However, one`s shoulder and cheek may feel otherwise and it does make for a good, impressive ego booster and attention getter(amongst the boys) on the range.

 

[YoteSmoker]

"As I stated before, the RUM puts too much sugar in the coffee. It is too fast, too overpowered for anything in N/A, has too much recoil to enjoy..."

"For hunting, the extra 150-200 fps by the 375 RUM over the 375 Ruger, is meaningless."

So....which is it? I surmize both are great choice for african and alaskan BIG game, of which the RUM trumps the Ruger in both rifle selection and component availability unlke the nearly proprietary Ruger. I personally don't own a ruger or a howa, so I guess I'd have to opt for better selection and availability with potentially more power with greater range capability. I think the difference in velocity potential is relative to comparing a 300 WM to a 30-06 and I think we can agreee there is a difference at longer range, howbeit, most shooters never shoot much over a couple hundred yards....however, they are only limited by their own capability and lack of ballistic knowledge/application.

 

[Big Squeeze]

"As I stated before, the RUM puts too much sugar in the coffee. It is too fast, too overpowered for anything in N/A, has too much recoil to enjoy..."

"For hunting, the extra 150-200 fps by the 375 RUM over the 375 Ruger, is meaningless."

So....which is it? I surmize both are great choice for african and alaskan BIG game, of which the RUM trumps the Ruger in both rifle selection and component availability unlke the nearly proprietary Ruger. I personally don't own a ruger or a howa, so I guess I'd have to opt for better selection and availability with potentially more power with greater range capability. I think the difference in velocity potential is relative to comparing a 300 WM to a 30-06 and I think we can agreee there is a difference at longer range, howbeit, most shooters never shoot much over a couple hundred yards....however, they are only limited by their own capability and lack of ballistic knowledge/application.

..........................What other rifle is available chambered in the 375 RUM from the factory, other than the Remy XCR?... I certainly haven`t seen any!......Anything from Browning? Nope!....From Weatherby? Nope!.....From Winchester? Nope!....From Sako? Nope!.....CZ? Nope!.....Kimber? Nope!.....Nosler? Nope!......T/C? Nope!.....Am I missing something?

Well! As far as this added velocity is concerned, I can ship a 270 grainer at just over 2800 fps, a 260 grainer at the mid 2800s and a 225 grainer at 3016 fps from my 20" tubed Alaskan.

Any velocity potential that the 375 RUM has over those figures imo, is useless within all "normal" or average 375 hunting ranges. More than enough downrange energy out to 350-400 yards with the right 375 bullet coming from a 375 Ruger. As far as hunting at extended ranges are concerned? I`ll just get a little closer.

Velocity isn`t everything!!!!......I like a rifle with great handling, that is fast handling, manuverable, fun to shoot without the recoil of a 375 RUM, easy carrying by its pistol grip with arms down at my side,, WITHOUT,, the muzzle hitting ground or coming close, one that is great for the thickets or on open areas, as well as giving more than enough power downrange that is well within all 375 average hunting distances.....As far as I`m concerned, a longer 375 RUM rifle offers more velocity with more recoil. That`s it!........

To my knowledge, the 375 Ruger is not a proprietary cartridge. As far as component availability? I don`t have "ANY" problem in that area.

When it comes to a "well balanced" all around 375 rifle/cartridge combo, I`ll take what I have in that Ruger package anytime over the 375 RUM.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Really B_S,
Ruger website list the Alaskan as weighing 8 pounds.
The Remington website lists the XCR as only weighing 7 5/8 pounds.
Besides, as big as you are, I can't see 4" of barrel making that much of difference to you....kind of reminds me of the guys in the early 70's who said the .264 Win Mag was "worthless" because it had a 26" barrel.
So, with the .375 in the XCR, I get a lighter, prettier gun, with 4 more inches of barrel, a couple of hundred extra yards of usable range, and enough leighway to add a couple of mercury recoil reduces for the same wwight if I'm really all that concerned about the recoil...

 

[Big Squeeze]

Really B_S,
Ruger website list the Alaskan as weighing 8 pounds.
The Remington website lists the XCR as only weighing 7 5/8 pounds.
Besides, as big as you are, I can't see 4" of barrel making that much of difference to you....kind of reminds me of the guys in the early 70's who said the .264 Win Mag was "worthless" because it had a 26" barrel.
So, with the .375 in the XCR, I get a lighter, prettier gun, with 4 more inches of barrel, a couple of hundred extra yards of usable range, and enough leighway to add a couple of mercury recoil reduces for the same wwight if I'm really all that concerned about the recoil...

...........A/Snipe!!!.....You keep digging a deeper and bigger hole for yourself!!! I seem to be able to pass the bigger shovels for ya to do so!!!...This is fun!

Where are all these 375 RUM (variety) chamberings from the different makers that you mentioned earlier?? Your quote,,"the RUM selection TRUMPS the Ruger selection." Oh yeah? Where?

Yes! The Alaskan weighs 8 lbs. 8 3/4 lbs with my scope and rings. Want a bigger shovel? I`ll take an 8 3/4 lb rifle that`s 40 3/4" long, over a rifle that`s 46", 46 1/2", or 46 3/4" long that weighs under a 1/2 lb less. However, if one were to mount a heavier scope on a Remy XCR 375 RUM which weighs more than my 9 ounce 1.5-5x20 VX111, the weight difference between the two would be less....Also, a shorter rifle, even if a 1/2 lb more, is a better handler, is a more manuverable rifle and better in the thicker terrain. I kinda like a muzzle that doesn`t stick up too far above the top of my head when slinged over my shoulder, especially when hunting in thicker terrains.

Here`s your next shovel!!....The last time I checked, the 375 RUM Remy XCR has a barrel length of 26"??????????....Well, my Alaskan has a 20" barrel length. Using my math, that`s a difference of 6",,,not the 4" you previously mentioned!! That also translates to about a 6" difference in the rifle OAL too!...For as large as I am, that 6" difference make a big difference.

Oh yeah! You get a lighter rifle all right! Less than a 1/2 lb.
Prettier?? The Alaskan is not a pretty rifle and was not designed as such. I wanted a no-nonsense, a rugged, a take anywhere under any weather condition type of rifle. I didn`t want a pretty rifle in the first place. Another shovel there?....And I won`t worry about adding any mecury recoil reducers either.

A couple of hundred extra yards of usuable range you say? Like your barrel length math, you`d better work on that math too! An extra 150 to 200 fps, does not gain an extra 200 yards of usable range in downrange energy. And even if it did, the downrange energy from a 375 Ruger with that extra 200 yards added on, will still be enough to kill game. The only difference between the RUM vs me??? I`ll just aim a little higher.

You keep a typin and I`ll keep passing the shovel!!

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Check the Remington site....24"

 

[Big Squeeze]

Check the Remington site....24"

............Whooops! I stand corrected then. You`re right! They have a 24"er. But the XCR is still 6" longer in OAL than the Alaskan. I`ll take a small shovel back from ya!... :lol: ...But not a big one! :lol:

Since you happened to mention that I`m running 200 yards behind the RUM for longer range hunting, I just now took a peek at the Hornady external ballistics table to see for sure. This example is using a 260 grain Nosler A/B with a BC of .473 for both the 375 Ruger and the 375 RUM. I took the highest 375 RUM velocity from my Lyman manual using a 26" test barrel, not a 24" as the Remy site says. The velocity I show for the 375 Ruger, is what I`ve already chrony`d from my 20" tubed Alaskan.

375 RUM; 260 gr Nosler A/B; BC= .473; 26" barrel

MV..................................................3008 fps/5223 ft lbs
At 100 yards....................................2807 fps/4589 ft lbs
At 200 yards....................................2615 fps/3948 ft lbs
At 300 yards....................................2431 fps/3411 ft lbs zero
At 400 yards....................................2254 fps/2934 ft lbs -10.2"
At 500 yards....................................2085 fps/2510 ft lbs -27.3"


375 Ruger; 260 gr Nosler A/B; BC= same; 20" barrel

MV..................................................2848 fps/4682 ft lbs
At 100 yards....................................2654 fps/4067 ft lbs
At 200 yards....................................2468 fps/3518 ft lbs
At 300 yards....................................2290 fps/3028 ft lbs zero
At 400 yards....................................2119 fps/2593 ft lbs -11.6"
At 500 yards....................................1956 fps/2209 ft lbs -30.9"

200 yards behind uh?? Hmmmm.....The 375 Ruger Alaskan from the muzzle slightly betters the 100 yard downrange ballistics of the 375 RUM. :shock: How about 90 to 100 yards behind instead. And that`s with a 26" RUM barrel not a 24" er. :shock:

So let`s assume that these above ballistics are from a 24" tubed 375 RUM instead. Give ya a little slack here. I aim 1.4" higher at 400 yards and 3.6" higher at 500 yards, while the energy difference is 341 lbs at 400 yards and 301 lbs at 500 yards. What a handicap ay?? :grin:

Man I`ll tell ya!! What A HUUUUUGE advantage for the .375 RUM uh??? Geees!.....Elk, moose, big bears and any African plains game will REALLY notice a BIG difference when they`re hit??.....NOT!!!....Guess what! The 23" African will close that gap even more!

Seems to me that the less prettier Alaskan, that`s 6" shorter in OAL with a barrel 4" shorter, will come to within 100 yards ballisitically of the RUM.... :wink: :wink:

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I don't think in inches...I think in MOA.
So you admit the Hawkeye African looks nicer then the Alaskan?

Besides aren't you like 6" 10" tall?
You carry a 30" bbl without dragging it on the ground! :wink:

 

[Big Squeeze]

I don't think in inches...I think in MOA.
So you admit the Hawkeye African looks nicer then the Alaskan?

Besides aren't you like 6" 10" tall?
You carry a 30" bbl without dragging it on the ground! :wink:

........Holdover inches while aiming, has nothing to do with moa and submoa, which BTW I have no problem in achieving. Sure the African looks nicer than the Alaskan. I hope so! It`s wood! If I wanted wood I`d have bought wood! I didn`t want wood

Nope! I`m 6'3" tall.

Keep a going Snipe, you`re doin good. I`ll keep passin you the shovel for ya to keep diggin that deeper hole. So far on this thread, I`d say you`re in pretty deep!!..........What`s next?? What else ya got there???

I`m waiting to shovel ya more buddy!!!........... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Long range shooting has everything to do with MOA, and not inches.
Since I use Mil-dot scopes, my holdover/adjustments are all in MOA/Mils not inches.

260ab 2850 3025
1 dot 275 325
2 dots 425 475
3 dots 525 600
4 dots 650 725
5 dots 750 825


Considering the Nosler #6 only lists 4 powders, I figure I could do better then the 3025 they list. WC 852 might be pretty interesting in it.
Of course this is just for illustration purposes....I usually carry with a flexable zero, and "dial and shoot" beyond my "hold and they are dead" range.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Long range shooting has everything to do with MOA, and not inches.
Since I use Mil-dot scopes, my holdover/adjustments are all in MOA/Mils not inches.

260ab 2850 3025
1 dot 275 325
2 dots 425 475
3 dots 525 600
4 dots 650 725
5 dots 750 825


Considering the Nosler #6 only lists 4 powders, I figure I could do better then the 3025 they list. WC 852 might be pretty interesting in it.
Of course this is just for illustration purposes....I usually carry with a flexable zero, and "dial and shoot" beyond my "hold and they are dead" range.

......................I don`t use scopes with mil dots. My moas and sub moas are at 100 yards. My chrony determines the hunting load velocity. My ARC rangefinder determines the correct distances to the target regardless of what the shooting angles happen to be. I know my bullet`s BC, hence the bullet drop at any given range. I don`t like or need a mil dot scope. If longer distance hunting is apparent, I just determine the correct holdover based on a 300 yard zero, determine the accurate range to the target, the approximate side windage if any and then BOOM, from a very simple #4 scope reticle! Takes only a few seconds for the shot.

If by chance I need a 400 to 500 yards shot, I can assure you that the vitals will be hit and the animal will go down.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

We are a little more open out here. Most of my hunting STARTS at 400 yards. 400 yeards is what we call a gimme. 500-600 is common, and 700- 800 is not unusual. At those ranges velocity is your friend. Since I usually keep my muzzle up, I don't have to worry about dragging it on the ground.

 

[Big Squeeze]

We are a little more open out here. Most of my hunting STARTS at 400 yards. 400 yeards is what we call a gimme. 500-600 is common, and 700- 800 is not unusual. At those ranges velocity is your friend. Since I usually keep my muzzle up, I don't have to worry about dragging it on the ground.

...........That`s ok! You can use your 375 RUM for the 500 yard + hunting. I`ll stay at 500 or under. I bought the Alaskan to use for bison, moose, dangerous bears and mix in an elk and a few hogs. When hunting any of those big three, the average shooting distances are not only well within 500 yards, but more than likely within 300 yards.

Hunters use hi-powered revolvers and bows to hunt those big three at much shorter distances. So I don`t think a 20" barreled 375 Ruger will have too much of a problem.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I read a story about a guy hunting cape buffs with a Bow.....The BUff won.

 

[Big Squeeze]

I read a story about a guy hunting cape buffs with a Bow.....The BUff won.

..........Well that guy was an idiot.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

But for Africa, you got to have a wood stock.
Since you're spending 25k on a once in a life time hunt, you can't have an ugly rifle in the pictures.

 

[DrMike]

But for Africa, you got to have a wood stock.
Since you're spending 25k on a once in a life time hunt, you can't have an ugly rifle in the pictures.

Too true!

 

[Big Squeeze]

But for Africa, you got to have a wood stock.
Since you're spending 25k on a once in a life time hunt, you can't have an ugly rifle in the pictures.

................If I ever change the stock, I`ll be sure to think of you! But I don`t think a PH will throw me out of camp when he sees the Alaskan.....................What`s next??????????????

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Hey Russ:
I stopped by Gander tonight to see what they had in your range of Idea's.

They had the CZ 500 in .416 Rigby, one new, one used. and .375 H&H. They also had a .375 Remington 798, and the Kimber 8400. Very nice wood on all of the above.

They had the .375 RUM in the Remington XCR, and the Ruger .375 in the Hawkey Alsakan, and the African.

They had plenty of ammo for both the RUM and the H&H, but no loaded ammo for the Ruger. 270gr spears for both, 300 gr Partitions for the H7H, and 300gr Swift a frames for the RuM. The spear ammo was $70.00 for both, and the premium was $100.00 per box for both. (ouch). Dies for the RUM, but neither of the others.

They also had a Kimber 8400 in 458 Lott, but no ammo or dies for it.

The Kimbers were over 3k, and in a locked case so I didn't bother anyone to open it up, but probably should of!!

I noticed a couple of interesting things handling the various rifles. The one with the best handling characteristics with my tall lanky structure, by far, was the RUM in the XCR. It was light, fast to the shoulder and pointed naturally. I think it would get a brake before I ever touched off a round with it.....

I didn't like the hogue overmolded stock on the Alaskan, and with no comb, it's not my favorite stock design for a big magnum. The Ruger African was better, but the skinny forend didn't fit my hand well.

The CZ was by far the most substantial of the rifles. It looks and feels like a real African rifle, and would look great in the pictures. The action is a comforting, but chunk of steel with a huge claw extractor, and the only one with a 5 round capacity when chambered in .375 H&H. It points naturally, and has the tri flip sites.

If I had to take one of the above rifles into the african brush to chase a wounded lion, or wounded Buff, it would probably be the CZ. Two extra big rounds, and a solid well built aciton I trust, covers a multitude of sins. One of the best things about the CZ is the caliber selection.
.375 H&H
.416 Rigby
.458 Lott
.458 Win mag
.505 Gibbs
.500 Jeffrey
.450 rigby
.425 Westley Richards
.416 Ruger
.416 Taylor,
9.3x62

and if you really want it, you can get the CZ 550 Express rifle in .375 Ruger. I hear there is at least one person on this site that really likes the .375 Ruger, but his name escapes me at the moment. :wink: