Brown Bear bullets for the 35 Whelen?

[35 Whelen]

JD 338 ; [Your photography is very nicely done!] I am thinking that might be Phil Driver with Midnight Sun Outfitters????? I have no idea what he uses but he was a very well known producer and long time guide .

Scotty,
I hear you on the velocity of the 338 when pumped up; but my point was to actually compare Joe avg guy; with a box of Rem/Federals that he would have grabed at Walmart in Anchorage; with an advertised velocity of >>2400fps<< would have shot alot more bears than guys running custom handloads; or guys buying $80 per box Super Performance ammo??? So while the true magnum will always have that slight edge in velocity . I think in the real world it is not a factor at all.

So was really just making the statement that when comparing the Whelen to the 338 Win it is probably realistic to assume the difference when it comes to a brownie hit with either one at 100 yds with a 250 gr bullet going either 2600 or 2700 it isnt going to make one bit of difference but that is just my 2 cents worth...........or another way of saying this is I sure as heck would rather hit one with a Whelen in the shoulder, than in the guts with a 338 or even a 460 #2 Nitro!

Taylorce it could have been I forgot about him!

 

[taylorce1]

I think JD was talking about Phil Shoemaker of Grizzly Skins of Alaska.

 

[JD338]

I think JD was talking about Phil Shoemaker of Grizzly Skins of Alaska.

Thats him!
He has taken a few bears with the 35 Whelen.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

JD 338 ; [Your photography is very nicely done!] I am thinking that might be Phil Driver with Midnight Sun Outfitters????? I have no idea what he uses but he was a very well known producer and long time guide .

Scotty,
I hear you on the velocity of the 338 when pumped up; but my point was to actually compare Joe avg guy; with a box of Rem/Federals that he would have grabed at Walmart in Anchorage; with an advertised velocity of >>2400fps<< would have shot alot more bears than guys running custom handloads; or guys buying $80 per box Super Performance ammo??? So while the true magnum will always have that slight edge in velocity . I think in the real world it is not a factor at all.

So was really just making the statement that when comparing the Whelen to the 338 Win it is probably realistic to assume the difference when it comes to a brownie hit with either one at 100 yds with a 250 gr bullet going either 2600 or 2700 it isnt going to make one bit of difference but that is just my 2 cents worth...........or another way of saying this is I sure as heck would rather hit one with a Whelen in the shoulder, than in the guts with a 338 or even a 460 #2 Nitro!

Taylorce it could have been I forgot about him!

Yep, I agree. Not a nickels worth of difference between the two of them. I certainly wouldn't buy a new rifle for big bears. Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

If I were to use my 35 Whelen for Brown Bear, I would use the 250 gr PT at 2580 fps and not look back.

JD338

YUUUUUUUUP

 

[35 Whelen]

Just looking at those 310gr bullets from Au............... this is what the reviewers had to say about them??

Mark Thompson of St Michael, AK
5.00 stars
Date Posted: 5/26/2001

The 310 Wooleight SP expands and penetrates well even at the modest velocities possible with the 358 Winchester at short distances. It out-penetrates even the Barnes-X 250 grain bullets going 300 fps faster. A 358 Win may not be a top choice for protection against big bears but this bullet may be the best possible choice should one need to use it in such a situation.

Allen Dunstan of Mechanicsburg, PA
5.00 stars
Date Posted: 4/29/2002
In my - long throated - .35 Whelen with a 27" barrel this bullet gives MOA at an average of 2,435 fps. That's an average of 4,035 foot pounds at the muzzle. Great Accuracy and Great Energy!!!

Dan Locker of Brownwood, TX

5.00 stars

Date Posted: 9/6/2011

Loaded these for a friend for our Africa trip. He took a giraffe and cape buffalo with them. Recovered the one from the giraffe just under the skin of the off side shoulder. Perfect mushroom with a big hole through the heart on a broadside shoulder shot. The cape buffalo went down to stay from a 35 yd shoulder shot. Used two 310 gr solids to add insurance. They went all the way through. Penetrated better than my .375 H&H Barnes 300 gr solids.

Pretty impressive reviews eh????

 

[SJB358]

Earle, I don't need to see things like that in the morning! Holy smokes. Makes me kinda jealous I don't have a little quicker twist on my M700. I would have liked to try the Swift 280's or those big Woodleighs, just because. I have read those same reviews as well quite a few times. Scotty

 

[JD338]

That is indeed impressive!

JD338

 

[35 Whelen]

:grin: I thought that would go good with your CherieO's Scotty! Your twist will be fine he said it was only 35 yd shot how bad could it be................................ I am afaid that when Dr Mike gets that custom deluxe barrel on his gun, we are soon to be looking at a target that will be finer than frogs hair, split 6 ways from Sunday! Cant wait to see if it will stabilze these big fellas........... maybe he can get us a discount Scotty for TWO barrels??????????? :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

:grin: I thought that would go good with your CherieO's Scotty! Your twist will be fine he said it was only 35 yd shot how bad could it be................................ I am afaid that when Dr Mike gets that custom deluxe barrel on his gun, we are soon to be looking at a target that will be finer than frogs hair, split 6 ways from Sunday! Cant wait to see if it will stabilze these big fellas........... maybe he can get us a discount Scotty for TWO barrels??????????? :mrgreen:

You never know what our Brothers from the Northland are going to do! I have learned to keep an eye on that Mike! He is a wily codger with something up his sleeve!

 

[DrMike]

Ha! Ain't got no sleeves this morning! In fact, I'm just getting ready for my morning coffee. I do have a few boxes of Woodleighs hanging around, however. They are a bit lonely, so they need to be used.

 

[gerry]

Thought about those big 310 gr Woodleighs as well and for that matter the 280 gr Swift. I do wonder if the Wooldeigh @ 2300 fps would be much better than the 250 gr Nosler @ 2600 fps for big stinky animals. Maybe DrMike can test some bullets for us. :wink:

 

[DrMike]

That is a tall order, Gerry. I'll work on it, though. I'll likely focus on 250 grain bullets, but heavier could be interesting.

 

[35 Whelen]

This is NOT my findings or data in anyway but thought I would share it in this tread.........

I read an interesting post from back in 2005 from another fourm;[test started in 1990!] where some dude[Greg Storey] did a pretty though study, on the performace of bullets out of 350 Rem Mags, and 35 Whelen rifles he had some guys up in the Yukon saving bullets for him; and he had his own experences . In the end he sorta concluded, that for just plain old penertration that the Aussy Woodleigh 310 grain, was of course the "king of penertration" hands down; against any of the compitition,[or at least until someone at Nosler decides to offer us all a 300 gr bullet!] and that while many of the bullets performed nicely; he felt that about 2500fps was a practical velocity in either rifle at the 250gr loading level. [though he had loads listed at 2600] And went on to say; that after nearly a ten year period that the Canadians, helping with the testing[How could you actually beat this source of testing??] He had came up with the desision; that simply put, the 250gr Speer Spitzer! Had worked out to be the bullet of choice?? And that because it simply couldnt be driven fast enough; from either caliber, that any of the problems one my have with that bullet driven at higher than 2500fps; were simply NOT present with the 35 Whelen/350RemMag testing! And that they didnt feel either one, warranted a premium bullet because in their experence; with the calibers mentioned it simply didnt make any difference, and would just be a waste of money! I think that the bulk of the testing was done on Moose in the Yukon . At the begining of the story he was up in Pond Inlet shooting Caribou and I think................. interesting reading and cool to see someone so devouted enough; to doing that sorta practical testing, over that many years. I always hate to try to read a gunwriters report, on a large bore magnum type cartridge and the only thing he is drawing from "except what the manufacture has asked them to mention" is that he shot a 133 lb whitetail and an amardillo with it; on a ranch somewhere, that they paid for his hunt.
here is the link> http://www.35cal.com/35bullet_study/35b ... tudy1.html

On a compleatly different forum a moderator left this post after a bunch of guys like us were debating the merits of a 35 W or 338/06 VS the real deal .338 WM here is what he ended the discussion with:>
I think it is wrong thinking to say; "If you want a 338 get a 338 mag" one of the reasons for the 338-06; or the 35 Whelen, is to get away from the recoil and HEFT of the magnum rifle; and still retain the "killing power" of the bigger bore. Both of these will do that. Not with the ranging capability of the mag, but they will get the job done, including Alaska.

I guess one of the main reasons I started this thread was in hopes that we could get some comments on here of actual kills and people that have shot "LARGE" animals with a Whelen so we could stir up some smoke from the Belted Magnum guys just for fun. The tread has been extreamely informative about loadings and such but lets hear from you fellas; that have taken some "bears over 500lbs with one"??? At this point I would even listen to a friend of a friends story if you got a picture of the actual bullet that did it, to back it up!

 

[DrMike]

Fascinating stuff, Earl.

 

[SJB358]

Very good info. I think that Speer 250 is an excellent bullet and I keep a few of them around as they are tough nuts.

I can't imagine you would need much more than the 250 PT would give in a Whelen. I am sure that 310 Woodleigh is a monster, but for most game, I really like the trajectory and accuracy of the PT and Speer 250's. Just the perfect combo for me.

I wished I had more pictures to share from the Whelen, but all I have is a little bear and some deer. My elk pictures were ate by a computer years ago. That is why I have been working so hard to take another elk with the Whelen, just to have some more ammo to show the effectiveness of the big guy.

 

[PJGunner]

"At this point I would even listen to a friend of a friends story if you got a picture of the actual bullet that did it, to back it up!"

Well, I can't help you much with a picture but I have two pen pals from Canada, one in BC and the other now living in Alberta. Their go to rifles for Bullwinkle just happen to be the .35 Whelen stoked with a stiff handload using the 250 gr. Speer Hot Core. Apparently both gentlemen try strictly for broadside shots aas the tell me they've never recovered a bullet. One of them a couple of years ago drew a coveted tag for grizzly Bear and he said his load of choice was the same one he used for moose.
I can only say that I've shot one "large" animal, a 400 pound cow elk and the bullet I used was the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. The bullet hit just behind the short ribs and exited between the neck and the right shoulder and AFAIK is still going strong. Internal damage was massive. A very impressive bullet.
What little shooting I've done with 250 gr. bullets consisted of the Speer Hot-Core and the Hornady spitzer and round nose bullets. The Hornady spitzer was the most accurate by a very small margin, the round nose a very close second and the Speer snapping at the heels of the Hornady round nose.
Based on what little experience I have, I think I'd go with that Barnes TSX for the great bears. I'd have to see something shot with the others before I'd take them seriously.
I might try for another elk hunt come next season, if I can draw a tag and I'll try one of the 250 gr. bullets, probably the Hornady. We do have a few feral pigs not too far away and maybe I'll get a chance to get down by the river where they hang out and stest a few 250's on them. Granted not a great bear but at least it's something to help get an idea.
The more I read what's being posted on the Whelen the more I like it. The shooting I have done impresses me with it's accuracy and if that elk is any example of it's efficiency, then count me as a confirmed fan of the cartridge.
Paul B.

 

[DrMike]

Paul,

I don't doubt that the TSX worked quite well in the Whelen. I've used them in other cartridges, and the 200 grain TSX in my 358. As an aside, out of six rounds with which I shot my last grizzly. I recovered one. Five others passed through. They were 220 grain Speer FN shot from a .356 at ~2400 fps. Impact was at 140 yards. The sole bullet recovered was the one shot into the bear as I approached. It entered the hump, travelled down the left front leg and was recovered under the foot pad. The first shot broke both shoulders and anchored the bear. I used a 250 grain Kodiak FN for many years to take a variety of elk, black bears and mule deer without ever recovering a bullet. Muzzle velocity for that bullet was ~2150 fps. It inflicted massive internal damage on all game. I have no doubt that a 250 grain Speer would work wonders in the Whelen, and I know that the 225 grain TSX works very well in the .358, so it would no doubt work in the Whelen, as well.

 

[35 Whelen]

Paul B thanks for that posting ............... interesting stuff.


Just got off the phone with an old guide friend that lives in Petersburg Ak and we got to talking the .358 caliber and he was telling what great luck he as had with his little BLR in 358W and all the Moose he has shot with it in the Brooks Range, and Interior Grizzlys . I was telling him about RL-15 and this new TAC powder and he liked the sound of all that.
Anyway he got to telling me about a friend there that bought a CZ in 416 Rem Mag[400gr bullet at 2400fps and 5000 flbs of energy] and dumped his old bear gun and started using it to back up Brown Bear hunters. I think the fellas name is "Scott Newman" and he was guiding a very wealthy Mexican guy apprently Scott is a very experenced guide and has alot of bears under his belt. They saw a big bear just before dark and the guy shot before Scott told him to, and wounded it, and it jumped into the alders . So Scott went in with the big 416 expecting to hammer the [now wounded with a 300 Weatherby ] large brownie in the failing light. But things didnt work out as expected . He said that after he got in the timber he could hear the bear thrashing around in there, so walked right into the bear and it charged him; and he only got ONE shot off; and he was able to hit the bear in the chest, just as you should. However what happened next is NOT in the text books. The bear kept right on coming; and the gun JAMED, and he got taken down; and was extensively mauled ............... big time.
He lived but got quite a scare outta it . So the moral of the story is even with a big magnum when you are dealing with an animal the magnatude of a 1300 lb Brown Bear, anything may happen! He basically did everything right; but even with a very large magnum caliber the bear still got him. As it was; had he not had a very experenced assisant guide; to get him out to the boat; and then make a 7hr boat trip to the hospital he would probably NOT be around today . I think Tom said he had hunted for years with a 375 before this happened; and is now touting a 458 Lott [500gr bullet at 2300fps with nearly 6000ft lbs of energy] Hey its bear hunting in Alaska and it can be dangerous.

 

[DrMike]

I know that when I've poked around in the alders for wounded bears, whatever rifle I was carrying was not big enough. You knew that at best you would get off one shot in such thick bush. And yet, someone has to take responsibility to go after the game. It is good that the guide survived. It is good that he had an experienced assistant with him.