Cartridges you can live without?

[Mortis]

As an old timer once told me.....it is better too loose the shoulder meat and drop the animal where it stands then loose the entire animal because the shot was not up too par.

 

[longguner]

what kind of risks? like a less than perfect shot? the angle of the shot? What?

Without a doubt, a less than perfect shot. I actually don't plan to ever shoot more than 600 yards and would prefer everything to be under 400. I plan for the worst and hope for the best. Also, I generally use 1500 Ftlbs as my minimum on target energy. Not so much for the energy, but in order to create enough bullet upset to be effective. Nothing against a 30-06, but it takes a very sleek bullet humping pretty quickly to get to 600 with the numbers. Again, I have no dog in this fight, I just hunt elk/deer. I have my minimums for them, but they are mine and not for everyone.

I would never, ever tell someone they need to use what I use, but if you shoot it well, under hunting conditions, you are much better off than you are with something you aren't skilled with. But if you can use the extra power to your advantage, why not?

I generally use 1500 Ftlbs as my minimum on target energy

sounds correct....

so if you have that.. at the range you're shooting then you're good to go with a reasonable cartridge.

 

[longguner]

I would rather shoot through both shoulders of an elk 400-500 yards with a 338 Win mag over a 243 Win, 308 Win, or 270 Win. That 200-250 gr bullet will have no problem taking out both shoulders.

Why you would mention the .308 or the .243,.. to kill an elk,.. at that distance, is beyond me.

As far as taking out both shouders is also beyond me. A spine shot would suffice.

If you can drill an elk in the spine everytime, heck, a 243 would get it done for you everytime at just about any range.. I am however not that good of a shooter. I will take the shoulders on a bull. Larger target and more room for error.

I am however not that good of a shooter

I think that narrows it down.... shot placement.

Larger target and more room for error.

I can't see how that's possible. The vitals, the bolier room is down low behind the shoulder right above where the femer meets the leg bone.

http://www.inberg.ca/hunting_essentials ... cement.htm


I suppose that's how O'Connor made so many successful kills.

 

[longguner]

oopps we hi jacked Fotis' thread... sorry Fotis.

 

[RiverRider]

So...who needs---NO, who wants something to shoot .351 Winchester SL?
:mrgreen:

 

[BK]

Why would you prefer extra power when it's not needed?

'cause I already have a couple of '06s and a .308 and I have the attention span of a gnat and get bored easily?

 

[longguner]

Why would you prefer extra power when it's not needed?

'cause I already have a couple of '06s and a .308 and I have the attention span of a gnat and get bored easily?

BAHAHAHAHAHHAHA good one BK... :lol: thanks for being honest

May I draw this conclusion.... one guy said he couldn't shoot well... so that would justify a cartridge that would compensate for error? Ok.... I can live with that.

I guess if there's folks who can't swing a hammer and hit a nail aren't carpenters, then they hire a carpenter/bigger cartridge to do the job.

 

[FOTIS]

So who needs a 700 nitro right?

 

[Huntbear]

Why would you prefer extra power when it's not needed?

'cause I already have a couple of '06s and a .308 and I have the attention span of a gnat and get bored easily?

BAHAHAHAHAHHAHA good one BK... :lol: thanks for being honest

May I draw this conclusion.... one guy said he couldn't shoot well... so that would justify a cartridge that would compensate for error? Ok.... I can live with that.

I guess if there's folks who can't swing a hammer and hit a nail aren't carpenters, then they hire a carpenter/bigger cartridge to do the job.

Or some of us like to shoot the biggest caliber we can shoot well, to knock elk down. My Sako TRG-S M995 will shoot 1/2 MOA out to 500 yards. I still break the shoulder and destroy the internals. I have seen elk go 3 miles carrying 4 or 5 slugs from guys shooting for the spine/neck.. The elk we shoot behind the shoulders with our handloads, have never gone over 100 yards.

Which by the way, one load is 210 Partitions at 2950 fps. The other is 225 AB at 2830 fps. Both will knock elk flat at ranges of 15 yards to 415 yards verified with a rangefinder. Then again, I know a guy that shot his 5x5 bugle tag bull here in Washington state with a .257 Rob. Head shot, dead elk.

 

[jason miller]

1- I don't think any of us are invincible.

Let me see if i get this straight as I commented on another of your posts....

about the movie theater.... you would have been able to avoid that aye?

2- If someone would want to go up against a firearm for your "worldly possessions" then they would want more than you possessions. What's the difference if a cop held or shot dead a thug breaking into your house to steal your stuff? You "letting them" come into your house to take your stuff, is allowing them to break the law. The law is alowing you to become a "police officer" of your own home. Imagine if people didn't police thier, "worldly possessions" and just threw up thier hands and said, "the hell with it, come in and take what you want, who cares?" Have you ever watch the movie, "The magnificent seven?" If not watch it some time. The bandits take more than thier, "worldly possesions". Ever hear the saying "give an inch take a yard?" I'm sure you have. Think on these things.

3- As far as game.... well it's about conservation/managment. EVERYTHING has to be managed. We aren't living in the Garden of Eden.

1. Of course we're not invincible. All of us will die some day, so why worry about it? And yes, I was able to avoid the movie shooting. I have never attended, and will never attend, a midnight screening of a new movie. For that matter, nearly all movies made these days are garbage and I don't have much interest in attending any of them even at regular times, either. Since it still remains that no movie in history that wasn't a midnight screening has ever been shot up, I'm not worried about being murdered at the 1-2 movies per year that I attend.

2. If someone breaks into my home while I and my girlfriend of ten years are both at work, then a handgun in the dresser is just another thing they can steal. If they break in while I'm home, I have rifles. Handguns provide zero benefit in that situation. Furthermore, if someone is so desperate that they need to break into my home and steal my belongings to feed themselves or fuel their drug habits, then I am truly sorry for that person. They obviously need it far worse than I do. It's replaceable anyway... And I've seen "the magnificent seven". I like it. But it's a movie. Most of its plot probably never happened at all, and most certainly isn't happening today. Movies and TV are embellished fantasies written to entertain and generate a profit. I keep that in mind when I watch them.

3. Nature managed itself just fine for 4.6 billion years without us. If anything should be managed, it's humans. We are far and away the most detrimental animal on Earth. But even as it is, the planet will recover just fine once we are gone. And I don't care about hunting. I hunt. But walking up to an animal that isn't even afraid of you and shooting it while it watches you isn't something I have any interest in. Sorry if that offends anyone, I was just stating why I "can live without" large-bore rifles. Finally, prove there is/was a Garden of Eden and I will prove there is/was a Nessie, Bigfoot, and aliens.

Once again, I couldn't possibly care much less about anyone else's opinions. Have them. I won't argue. But please stop attacking mine. I have no problem rebutting until I get banned or this thread is locked. I have already apologized, tried to change the subject, and attempted to drop the issue several times. But closed-mindedness and intolerance are two things I won't accept.

 

[Oldtrader3]

You are full of inane nonsense, Jason! Washington state has Castle Doctrine laws and I will use them to their fullest extent if some jerk wants to bring evil into my house! A .45 Colt Peacmaker is my Peacemaker and behind that a .357 Magnum Blackhawk.

I am issuing a troll alert for this guy! Jason is looking for nothing but grief! He is either a coward or has never had a family with children to look after and be responsible for their safety and well being.

Wait until you wake up at 2:00 AM some day with somebody in your bedroom during a home invasion! That just might make a man or a mouse out of you!

 

[jason miller]

Have at your rights. If I break into your house, feel free to shoot me to my death. I honestly DO NOT CARE if you want to have a handgun and/or use it against someone trying to cause you bodily harm and/or damage your property. I don't do any of those things to people, so I won't ever be shot by reasonable people protecting their property. It doesn't affect me.

Go back and read my first few posts on this forum. There haven't been that many. I'm not being offensive towards or attacking any of you. I am the one whose opinions are being attacked. Yes, they are different than yours. That does not make them wrong. Every culture on Earth thinks that their beliefs and practices are correct while everyone else's are wrong. Who's right? 90% of people on the road think they are a good driver and that the majority of everyone else is a horrible driver. Who's right? Who's to even judge who is right? It's not you or me. And I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just trying to say that I'm not wrong, either.

By the way, I have my own opinions of you all, but I'm keeping them to myself. Name-calling and personal bashing don't further the conversation at all. By keeping calm and trying to explain myself, I really wish you would eventually calm down as well and maybe open your mind a little. I know from past experience that trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes and see things from their perspective can be enlightening.

Speaking of my opinions of others, thanks to Fotis and (I think)JD338 for at least attempting to revert to this thread's original subject and/or drop the issue more than once. And I apologize for not being a big enough person to just let others have the last word and stop replying.


If you think I am a coward, so be it. I wish you could see that I am absolutely not afraid. And if someone broke into my home while I was there, I would defend it. That is not the issue. The issue is that a rifle is just as good as or better than a handgun in that scenario. But I don't think that will happen any more than I think I will drown on an Italian cruise ship. The chances are so slim, and made even slimmer by other choices in my life, that it isn't worth worrying about- to me.

 

[JD338]

Time to move on fellas.

I could live with out the 22 Jet, 351 self loading, 356 Win and the 458 Win Mag.

JD338

 

[Oldtrader3]

I could live without the .30 Rem, .32 Rem and actually probably the .444, as long as the .45-70's are still with us. I realise that one is controversial but I agonized a little over the .444 when it first came out and then relaized that the .45-70 suited me fine and I did not have to use pistol bullets. Just my opinion.

 

[jason miller]

I could live without the .264 Win Mag, especially if 6.5-06 brass were easier to come by. The 7mm Rem really puts the proverbial nails in the .264 WM's coffin for any use I would have.

 

[usmc 89]

"One guy said he couldn't shoot well" I don't think he said that, I took away from what he said meaning that he wasn't a consistent enough shooter and lacked the confidence to take a spine shot on an elk. I know a lot of guys that claim to have that proficiency but I have rarely seen it firsthand. I don't claim to be a great shooter but when a target presents itself I will take the shot that is most conducive to killing it, biggest kill zone available .

 

[SJB358]

I could live without the .264 Win Mag, especially if 6.5-06 brass were easier to come by. The 7mm Rem really puts the proverbial nails in the .264 WM's coffin for any use I would have.

Man, I could take all of the handgun stuff, but now you have thrown the 264WM under the bus! That is just inexcusable! :lol:

I do like the 6.5-06 as well. Very well balanced cartridge. Shouldn't be nothing to make 6.5-06 brass. Run some Norma or Nosler 25-06 brass up into the sizer die and have at it.

 

[longguner]

So who needs a 700 nitro right?

right, who needs it. Nobody.

 

[257 Ackley]

" I will take the shot that is most conducive to killing it, biggest kill zone available .

Yeah, that p-dog at 900 plus yards gave you a really big kill zone to shoot at! :mrgreen:

Scotty - some will never understand the magic of a .264 magnum. :roll:

 

[longguner]

Thanks, me too. And it's not about being in control. It's about being as forward thinking as possible, as flexible and adaptable as possible, and accepting that I can't control everything while holding onto faith that it will all work out anyway.

Sell your cloak and buy a sword.

Among the 12 they had 2 swords.... it was enough.