Chasing hunting rifle accuracy

[preacher]

Nothing wrong with getting a new rifle, but don't be surprised if you end up with 3/4" groups!

 

[AFG270]

Great post everyone. I learn something new every time I read this Forum.

Just hope my wife doesn't read it, she might figure out why I have so many guns.

Sodak, yeah, did you buy it?

 

[sodak]

Yup


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[Darkhorse]

I chase hunting rifle accuracy also and to me 3/4" is not satisfactory. I have a Browning Abolt in 300WM that shoots sub .500" groups in both my deer loads and my elk loads. The tradeoff is the barrel gets too hot after 3 shots and the group walks to the left. But this doesn't bother me as I'm only looking for 3 accurate shots for hunting.
I also have a Model 700 in 7mm mag that was made in 1981. I didn't hunt with it for over a decade and when I took it out of the gunsafe the stock had warped and it shot about a 1 foot group.
I bedded the stocks and did a trigger job. Then worked up some careful loads and the rifle was suddenly a 1 holer with certain loads. I am now very happy with the old girl. There's a lot you can do to a factory rifle to wring accuracy out of it.
I also have a photo of 5 shots where it opens up to around .668 but I blame the shooter (me) for that.

 

[SJB358]

Very nice DH. That's a great shooting rifle.

 

[preacher]

Wow Darkhorse...those are some sweet groups! I was once asked by an Afrikaner in South Africa why we Americans fuss about our rifles/scopes so much. I told him that we have such short game seasons yet we love to hunt/shoot! ha We have more time than opportunity and it is a good Martial Art discipline too. Most folks only think of Martial Arts as contact fighting...not so, handling ones weapons and being proficient ( for targets or quivering flesh of game to bad guys if need be) is very "Martial". As far as a "hunting rifle and load go", any of us here can take a 4" grouping hunting rifle and kill everything in the woods, ( or a Service grade M14 and kill Charlie out to 500yds! They were expected to shoot 4 MOA) ha. I still say that a Sporter weight rifle and set up ( not a Blueprinted action, custom barrel ) 1.5 to 2" from a 300 Magnum up is outstanding. I don't "chase" more than 3/4" unless I DO have a Blue Printed, accurized, decent barrel rifle with good mounts, scope and trigger. Then I "expect" to find a bughole group now and then, but some days the wind don't blow, the grass don't grow, the sun don't shine and my wibbles go against my wobbles....so then that 1.5" to 2" looks really good to me, ha.

 

[TackDriver284]

To chase accuracy, I like to do the ladder test. Check the reloading manual and , for example, you see a min load charge of 40 and a max charge of 46, so start around the middle or less, make 3 to 4 rounds of each powder weight such as 42.5, 42.9, 43.3, 43.7, 44.1, 44.5, 44.9 up to max. Then choose the bullet you plan or want to use, then seat them all off around .010 off the lands. Try each load to make a group on a nice day and record each group. I am pretty sure there will be one group or two shooting better than the rest of the groups. Just be careful to look for high pressure signs like sticky bolt lift or flattened primers indicating a high powder charge and back off a little. You just need to find the sweet spot. After the ladder test, choose your groups that shot the best and concentrate on those loads, vary bullet seating depth, tweak your powder charge very incremental, change out primers, or brass to tweak it to a one hole rifle or a cloverleaf hunting rig. It worked for me.

 

[sodak]

To answer my own question; yes, it is worth it. Cooper Classic 300 win mag with Swarovski z5.


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[DrMike]

Very fine! Congratulations. The satisfaction of developing and using our own loads is of inestimable value.

 

[Elkman]

My mind sometimes works backwards or not at all, as some will attest. Here are my thoughts/questions?
Do you really want to spend $1500 to gain a 1/4 inch?
Do you really think that any elk you will ever kill will notice the difference?
Are you disastified with your current rifle, other than group size?
Are you laying awake at night worried that you may miss an elk because of group size?
Elk have a very large kill zone, do you think that a 1/4 inch smaller group will really make a difference?
If you answered yes to one or more of these, then perhaps you need another rifle that may "not" shoot much better. Hopefully you laughed!!!!!!!!
I have been shooting a 300WM since 1970, and can truly state that a 3/4 group would not have caused me to miss any of the animals that I have killed. Mine shoots a little tighter, but an extra 1/4 of an inch is nothing to worry about.

 

[BF375]

I am always trying to get smaller groups, clearer optics, and better feel in my hunting rifles. My main rifle now is a Rem CDL .300 win mag. Fine rifle after a new trigger. With my hand loads, I'm pushing a 180 gr AccuBond 2900 fps. Consistent 3/4 MOA accuracy with full length sizing, normal bullet seating depths, etc.

Is an upgrade to a Cooper or Nosler rifle going to pay off in the accuracy department?


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Maybe but I wouldn't bother.

 

[DrMike]

My mind sometimes works backwards or not at all, as some will attest. Here are my thoughts/questions?
Do you really want to spend $1500 to gain a 1/4 inch?
Do you really think that any elk you will ever kill will notice the difference?
Are you disastified with your current rifle, other than group size?
Are you laying awake at night worried that you may miss an elk because of group size?
Elk have a very large kill zone, do you think that a 1/4 inch smaller group will really make a difference?
If you answered yes to one or more of these, then perhaps you need another rifle that may "not" shoot much better. Hopefully you laughed!!!!!!!!
I have been shooting a 300WM since 1970, and can truly state that a 3/4 group would not have caused me to miss any of the animals that I have killed. Mine shoots a little tighter, but an extra 1/4 of an inch is nothing to worry about.

Excellent points, Bill. Unfortunately, most younger hunters (and many older ones, as well) will still be caught up in the chase for that extra quarter inch. I did load development for one individual who insisted that each rifle must shoot 3/8 inch or it would go down the road. Yet, he had a hard time shooting MOA from the bench with those same rifles and loads. Still, he had a target to laminate and show to others.

 

[Elkman]

Dr. Mike Yet, he had a hard time shooting MOA from the bench with those same rifles and loads

I gifted a rifle to a younger man earlier this year, whom I have known and hunted with since the 70's. Few animals have ever gotten away from him in the woods, and he is an excellent hunter. Deer, elk or birds he consistently fills his tags and limits, but 2" for him is a great group. The game he has hunted and killed over the years has never known that.

 

[preacher]

Not trying to Hijack, but back in the late '70s I helped a young welder out on the job...He had a Mod 99E in .243. He wanted it scoped and a good load worked up for it. I set it all up to shoot 100gr Speers and an 4x Weaver. I was able to get 1.25" on paper and even hit a chicken egg ( my bachelor buddy always had bad eggs to shoot, he'd forget they were there!) everytime at 100yds off shooting bags. It had a terrible trigger too. I took it to its owner, who later got me in front of the work gang and said my loads were crap! He couldn't hit a 5gal bucket at 100! I told him it wasn't MY fault he could not shoot, ha. I took it back, put it on paper, again, and got solid 1.25" groups. I took the target to him. He began to practice more, apologized "to me" and even killed deer with it....but he never "apologized" to the gang about his remarks at my expense. ha

 

[Charlie-NY]

Accuracy is always relevant to distance. If you're shooting game at 100 yds, and most probably do, a 2MOA rifle is easily more accurate than necessary. If you want the same rifle to be "on target" at 400 yds than that's a different story.

Another thing - If you call a rifle that shoots 1" @ 100 yds a 1MOA rifle without confirming that it will also shoot 4" @ 400yds or 6" @ 600yds, you will likely be in for a surprise when hunting at longer distances.
Ex: I have a 7WSM that shoots well under .5" at 100yds and typically groups into 1.5"-1.6" @ 300yds, which is the farthest I can shoot at my club, but........when I drove down to N Carolina where they had a 600yd range I was very surprised to shoot a 6" group in favorable conditions. Given my various groups would that make this a <.5MOA gun/load, a 1MOA gun/load or something in between?

 

[DrMike]

Good point, Charlie. Each rifle is an entity unto itself. My 7RM shoots 3/4 inch at 100 yd with 175 grain PT & TBBC. It delivers 3/4 inch at 200 yd with the same loads. I've always said the bullet goes to sleep somewhere beyond 120 yd or so.

 

[Guy Miner]

Good point, Charlie. Each rifle is an entity unto itself. My 7RM shoots 3/4 inch at 100 yd with 175 grain PT & TBBC. It delivers 3/4 inch at 200 yd with the same loads. I've always said the bullet goes to sleep somewhere beyond 120 yd or so.

Nice...

That kind of load is a confidence builder.

Regards, Guy

 

[c. schutte]

,......was going to say something about that wanting tighter groups does not matter for hunting but, then I remembered I chase that same quarter inch! :>)

I rationalize it like this.................. It's nice to know what the rifle can actually do. It's nice to see what loads you can achieve because anything not accurate is not interesting. After that it's my job to try to do my part and brother, that's the challenge!

Still, one needs a benchmark............................ 1" does not really make me happy, .75" is an improvement and .5" or better puts a smile on my face. I've had good folks try their best to talk sense into me that 1.5" will work and in my heart I know it's true but.............................

 

[SJB358]

I hear you Chuck. I've been trying to take that knowledge and apply it for years.

 

[DrMike]

Funnily enough, Guy, I seldom take that rifle afield any more. It still delivers excellent accuracy and it has account for quite a variety of game (I've owned it longer than any other rifle). I suspect that is why it is being neglected.