Deer running after being hit?

[jimbires]

here is another question on deer running .


when archery hunting , I've had deer fall within sight. while I've tracked some 100+ yards . my belief is I tracked them until it was bleed out . say anywhere from 10 yards to 100 yards to bleed out . bleed out to me means no blood to pump . so why does one run 100 yards when the heart gets shredded from a gunshot ? it's basically bleed out when the heart got destroyed . there is blood there , but no pump .

 

[seokladuckin]

here is another question on deer running .


when archery hunting , I've had deer fall within sight. while I've tracked some 100+ yards . my belief is I tracked them until it was bleed out . say anywhere from 10 yards to 100 yards to bleed out . bleed out to me means no blood to pump . so why does one run 100 yards when the heart gets shredded from a gunshot ? it's basically bleed out when the heart got destroyed . there is blood there , but no pump .

Drains into body cavity, I always thought the muscles contracting pumped it out , several deer I've seen the aorta cut off the heart with broadhead run 60 to 100 yards , when they run out of blood they stop and get the ass wobbles , pass out standing

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[JD338]

JD , that's the box I remember . $5.80 barely covers the cost of the 20 primers today . HA a lot of the old paper shotgun shells , and ammo they didn't want to use , was mine to shoot up when I first started .


Guy , excellent topic . I thought this one had the potential to go sideways in a hurry .

Here is the old Winchester 30-06 150 gr Silver Tips.
I never hunted with them but I'm sure they would have worked well on deer.

My favorite factory load in the 30-06 was the Remington 180 gr RNCL. They worked well and long shot deer went about 40-50 yards with a great blood trail.

 

[RL338]

For many years I hunted with trusty old 308 Win. and 150gr SP bullets. Every once in awhile I would get one to run off a small distance after taking it in the boiler room. Easy to track but disappointing to say the least. Then came the 30-378 WBY and I never had one take a step. Last year I hunted with my 416 WBY and 350gr TTSX and the 2 deer I took never moved from the spot.
Horsepower and a bullet that can handle it will never disappoint.

 

[jimbires]

I took a couple pics of the old ammo boxes from Dad . I've stuck reloading tags on them .he didn't shoot much , just a few before season to check his zero . and he would not hunt with my reloads . reloaded ammo can't be trusted , he'd say .

 

[jimbires]

getting back to bullet expansion . here is a good article from Craig Boddington . the article is getting dated , June 2007 . I hope you guys can read it . it's been awhile since I've read it , but his thoughts were the same as mine at the time he wrote it .

 

[Songdog]

Shoot bones…. Problem solved.

 

[CamoHunter]

I normally aim right behind the front shoulder at deer and elk. I have have very few DRT.
Most ran a short distance before expiring, some longer than others.
Camo

 

[JD338]

Here is a crop damage doe I shot a couple days ago, again with my signature shot, the high lung shot. DRT. 338 RUM 300 gr ABLR.

JD338

 

[Cleveland48]

Here is a crop damage doe I shot a couple days ago, again with my signature shot, the high lung shot. DRT. 338 RUM 300 gr ABLR.

JD338

I bet that load is a hammer! How fast u pushing that 300 gr ?


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[JD338]

Here is a crop damage doe I shot a couple days ago, again with my signature shot, the high lung shot. DRT. 338 RUM 300 gr ABLR.

JD338

I bet that load is a hammer! How fast u pushing that 300 gr ?


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2830 fps.

JD338

 

[Cleveland48]

Here is a crop damage doe I shot a couple days ago, again with my signature shot, the high lung shot. DRT. 338 RUM 300 gr ABLR.

JD338

I bet that load is a hammer! How fast u pushing that 300 gr ?


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2830 fps.

JD338

That’s packing the heat for sure man! Awesome setup


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[HAWKEYESATX]

I’ll try and keep this short and simple.

I’ve used a .243 when hunting early rut whitetail. Used the Remington 100 gr Cor-Lokt.
Hit the top of the heart and both lungs, the 8 point buck only walked at the most 5 feet.
When I used to hunt with my 7mm REM Mag, shot a Muley buck, with 175 gr Federal Red box, a 6 point, facing me, right in the heart. Dropped like a sack of potatoes.
When I went hunting with my .300 Win Mag, Ruger 77, 180 gr Remington Cor-Lokts, hit a fork horn big bodied Mule deer in the heart and lungs first shot, didn’t go down, acted like it was never hit, but had adrenaline running through it, looking the opposite way at another hunter on the opposite ridge line, that scared it to me, so I gave it 2 more anchor shots, all of which were within 2 inches of each other, because I was shooting offhand.
I shot an antelope at around 75 - to 80 yds, with my 300 Win Mag, 180 gr Cor-lokts, heart and lung shot, dropped right there. I thought it ran off because I didn’t see it go down because of the recoil.
Now, as others have said, the trick is shot placement. Not so much what caliber you use.


Hawk


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[ShadeTree]

Late to the party here and I haven't read each and every post, but my 2 cents. Whitetails can and will run on normal body shots. Shoulder shots or tight to the shoulder mid height eliminates most of it with either a reasonably fast expanding bullet at decent velocity...(smaller the caliber the more velocity is important IMO), or a larger bore at slower speeds but a soft bullet.

I did catch the comment Jim made about bonded bullets, and I agree. When it comes to whitetails, penetration into tomorrow isn't necessarily your friend. Take a look at Seokladuckin's post.

My bet is if he kept comparing, and in the absence of taking out the CNS or busting both shoulders, he'd continue to get longer runs with the 140 AccuBond then the 130 Speer in a smaller cartridge like a 7mm-08......especially if the Speer was the boatail version which is softer.

Used on either a heavier animal, or pushing that bullet substantially faster out of something like a 7mm Rem mag the 140 AccuBond can and will produce optimum results.

It comes down to physics. And there's no magic bullet that can beat physics outside of its design. It's up to us to match the bullet weight, speed, and toughness of the bullet to the game we are hunting.

 

[Nimrod84]

Shoot bones…. Problem solved.

I'm late to the party like ShadeTree, but I 100% agree with Songdog and ShadeTree on this. While the high shoulder shot messes up a bit of meat, it has consistently dropped deer for me and the two Elk I have shot. I don't recall a lost rifle animal... I've lost a few deer with archery though.

Why do some folks talk a lot about deer running off and having to track them on a routine basis? I don't understand.

Runners (those that go 100+ yards) in my experience seem to pop up when shooting for the heart (and missing it), high lung shots, shots too far to the rear and or when bullets are too tough and don't deliver sufficient physical tissue disruption or hydro-static shock to mess with the nervous / cardio system.

From what I've seen, a shot too far to the rear, such that it is off the lungs / diaphragm, is generally due to what I politely call the result of a "low accuracy system". A low accuracy system is for example: shooting off-hand at a running deer or switching ammo without re-sighting in or hunting with a wandering zero due to screws not being tightened down... When I'm tracking such a deer I call it "user error".

Guy in the OP mentioned a lot of the runner talk was on lever action forums. I think the common lever action hunting mantra is a quick handling rifle for fast off-hand shots and or multiple shots if at all possible - i.e. a focus on "low accuracy systems" in this case a focus on the speed of a first round shot and or number of shots fired rather than setting up ones shooting position / form for a deliberate and accurate shot.

I've started hunting with a 44 mag lever action on a few parcels, I use it like a bolt action though... By that I mean I setup for a single deliberate shot - setup is a BOG tripod over tall grass, a 3-9 or 2-7 scope on it along with a good trigger and I don't think about a second shot. Everything I've shot with it has gone down within 60 yards - one ran and three were DRT. The 60 yard runner was due to shot placement, I hit high lung due to a pulled shot - deer was also angled towards me which didn't help my shot placement.

Personally, the very few animals that have moved more than 75 yards have been due to shots dropping off of the shoulder along with the bullets being too tough for the animal - typically Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain which don't like to expand much in a 280 Rem, unless a bone is hit.