Guiding rifle

[alaska100]

Just out of curiosity, what has your dad used in the past as his guide rifle?

Well my dad and granddad was not a guide. but I have spoken to and read a lot about these men of years gone by. My dad would not have used much different than we do now, as many of the rifles and calibers we use today were also available to our fathers. Bullets used however have changed and improved. Our grandfathers ( on average ) from what I have read could have used the 375 H and H also, but also the 30-06 seemed to be very popular during the 1940 s and 1950 s.

It is when we get to the turn of the century it gets interesting. A lot of 25-35, 30-30, and 30-40 show up in pictures, digs, books and archives. Some 45/70 and 45/90 also, but these gave way to the lighter, smaller caliber guns that were easier to carry all day . Before that muzzleloaders and before that spears and bows and arrows LOL

But if your point is to say that the guides and hunters today seem to be using bigger calibers now than they did in the past, I would have to agree

 

[Anonymous]

This will probably get me branded as a heretic, but I believe that a lot of the old-timers used the 30-06 so much for purely economic and logistics reasons. The '03 and ammo was comparitively cheap and widely available...

Gotta remember that AK is a relatively young state...it isn't until the 60's and 70's that we had an infrastructure that even remotely resembled anywhere else in America.

You see a lot of '03s and even Krags show up in old photos of AK hunters. With guides the Win 71 shows up with some frequency as well.

 

[alaska100]

This will probably get me branded as a heretic, but I believe that a lot of the old-timers used the 30-06 so much for purely economic and logistics reasons. The '03 and ammo was comparitively cheap and widely available...

Gotta remember that AK is a relatively young state...it isn't until the 60's and 70's that we had an infrastructure that even remotely resembled anywhere else in America.

You see a lot of '03s and even Krags show up in old photos of AK hunters. With guides the Win 71 shows up with some frequency as well.

I agree and to add a little more to this a lot of 30-06 rifles stayed in the state after both world wars. Not only did some of the native americans who had some of them, use them after the wars but sold them. There were simply a lot of 30-06 rifles around. And as has been stated economic and logistic reasons were a big part of using what one had a available.

Could i get by with only a 30-06 today in Alaska---yes! But I do not choose to do that.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I think that a lot of the old timers, and I qualify as one pretty much now, used levers, like 1886's and Model 71's. Or maybe 1895's in 405 Win at least on brown bear. Plus the .375 H&H has been around for a century now and of course not all guides in the old days could afford a Brevex magnum action.

 

[35 Whelen]

When I blew into Anchorage in the late 70's and got mixed up with Alaska Safaris Inc. The younger guide crowd was already leaning hard into the .338WM. It was undoubtedly the king of calibers up there in the 80/90s . The older crowd seamed to be split into two groups ................ the pro guides mostly shot .375s and the buckwheat guides that lived in the bush, and off the land, mostly shot the 30/06 as their only rifle and simply used 150/180s [what ever was on sale] as their all around load for everything but big bears. Most had a box of 220gr for guiding bear hunters and at that time the thinking was quite different than what it is today watching the "Outdoor Channel".................. they all felt that the 06 with a 220gr bullet was certainly adequate for brown bears IF they could place their shots correctly. I have seen quite a few shot with the 30/06, that were in the 7.5/8.5ft Class that I also felt were dispatched nicely with that combo. However in the old days, most of the really experenced guys that I knew, would MUCH rather shoot a bear "Head On" than sideways. Today of course the TV is filled with guys on the "Best of the West" style shooting at stuff a great distances with heavy custom magnum rifles...........................
I think in general, we have turned into a magnum club with many people lugging them today, and having a false sense of security, that they can now make super long shots with the same results as one would with a lesser gun at closer distances. I am not sure I subscribe to that theory, as after 38 years of guiding hunters I fully realize that taking long shots with magnums for the average hunter has not had the same effect as getting closer with a standard caliber.
The bottom line on all of this is the same as it always was .
A 9ft brown bear shot at 75 yds with a 220 gr bullet in the chest, facing you, so that the bullet hits in either front pockets, will wilt about any bear that every ate a salmon................ simply as that . He wont get into the alders on you . The caliber hits hard enough at that distance to dispatch the animal, and has been proven to do so "thousands of times" in Alaska over the last hundred years.
If you are planing on shooting bears over 200 yds, with magnum rifles broadside, and have "Best of the West" programed into your remote, to record every week . Than good luck to you, as the whole idea of a heavy gun and long distances on big bears, really goes against everything the old fellas tryed to pass on to us back in the 70's....................
I think super long distance shooting on Elk and Moose is impressive, and I admire the guys that can do it, as they are great marksmen, with supertuned guns and have mounted scopes that are amazing!
So as far as I can see, it still will always boils down to "hitten em right", with a gun that has enough moxie to flaten em......................... and a 30/06 with the correct bullet, to give deep penertration and transfer all of the energy into the animal, still qualifys today the same as it always did.
Would it be my first choice to back up hunters, after they had already wounded a 9ft Bear............ no it wouldnt. That is a very different situation.
Would I have any concerns in shooting at a 10ft Brown Bear with a 30/06 under a hundred yards , with a good clear shot of his chest. NO I would not. I would fire with confidence that properly hit he would be in ALOT more trouble than I would be! :wink:

 

[DrMike]

Excellent advice, Earl. Thanks for giving us perspective from one who has been there.

 

[Guy Miner]

Again - the voice of experience.

 

[Jar Head]

Sorry for that, I should have been more clear. My question was intended for the author of the post, I was just curious if his father was new to guiding and if not why he was looking for a guide rifle other than what he may have used.

Regards,

 

[IdahoCTD]

I think if I was hunting after dark at less than 60yds I'd be shooting a 10ga with 00 Buck (18 .33cal pellets) and slugs. I'd probably be packing my .416 or .458 Lott for the daylight hours. That would be a rush in the dark. Probably a lot of soiled underwear for many of the clients.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Anbody hazard a guess on what guides in Alaska used in the real "old days" before 1958 when the .338 WM arrived on the scene? That is kind of what I was asking before?

 

[gerry]

Anbody hazard a guess on what guides in Alaska used in the real "old days" before 1958 when the .338 WM arrived on the scene? That is kind of what I was asking before?

I bet they carried 30-30's, 30-06's and maybe 348 Winchesters

 

[Oldtrader3]

I was thinking .348's (Model 71's), 1886's (.45-70 and up) and 1895 in .405 and .30-06? I am sure some of them used the various 1894 chamberings. When I was working up north in Quebec (1958-59), the Metis (French/Creek mix) used 1894's for everything including moose. They even used Model 94, .25-35's on moose.

 

[Anonymous]

Anbody hazard a guess on what guides in Alaska used in the real "old days" before 1958 when the .338 WM arrived on the scene? That is kind of what I was asking before?

I've seen several photos of guides with WInchester 71s...there was even a gunsmith down on the Kenai made a cottage industry of converting them to .450 Alaksan. In one photo the guide's client was packing a brand new Winchester .375 H&H. Believe Craig Boddington printed that pic in "N.American Hunting Rifles".

I've also seen a fair number of 03s in old photos. The 30-30 was more of a bush rat's gun though, not a guides.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I live in Northern Washington and we used to get a lot of Model 71's, well used and scarred in the bigger gun shops around here, like Kesselrings. We still get the occasion Model 71 that shows up for sale. That is were I figured they were coming from, was Alaska.

 

[Anonymous]

I live in Northern Washington and we used to get a lot of Model 71's, well used and scarred in the bigger gun shops around here, like Kesselrings. We still get the occasion Model 71 that shows up for sale. That is were I figured they were coming from, was Alaska.

You still find them with surprising regularity up here. I've seen one of the original converted ones converted in Cooper Landing...not for sale.