How often do you guys go above book max in powder?

[ReloadKy]

This is just a question and I am looking for a little feedback, not to be chastised, lol! I had a 243 a few years ago that I could not get to shoot anywhere close to "normal" velocities even at book max on a couple of different powders. It may have been someone on here or someone else that asked the question, do you have any pressure signs at max powder? I did not and started to slowly creep up above max in .2 grain increments. I learned that in that particular 243 I could go a full grain over max and get the velocity that I should have been getting at max. I know all rifles are different and going over max has to be a slow and safe process.

There are a lot of guys on here that have developed a lot more loads for a lot more rifles than I have. How often do you all go above max to get the desired velocity / result you want in your load development?

 

[sako2]

My velocties hardly ever match. A lot of guy's go up till they see pressure sign and back down a grain.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Just me but seldom ever. I do let the rifle dictate what it can handle but if acceptable accuracy is achieved at velocity that is at max or slightly below, I'll take accuracy every time. Your loading process is correct for venturing up above max. Glad it worked out for you.

 

[SJB358]

I typically let my chronograph tell me where I’m going as far as charges. If a manual says a 95 grain bullet with H4831 will attain 2900fps then I keep adding powder till I’m around that speed as long as accuracy is there.

I do note barrel length and lot to lot canisters of powders will change the upper end but I really don’t pay much attention to the max charges since just about every shot I take has a chronograph next to the rifle and since I can’t measure pressure that is about the next best way.

 

[Chuck R]

Honestly I end up over book max probably 95% of the time.

If you use the OCW method of load development, your test loads at least will be 1 increment above the average of 3 max book loads.

Add another 2% or so to the charge level used in cartridge #3 of step 4, and load three rounds with this charge weight. Add .7% to 1% to this charge, and load three more. Add that same graduation again, and load three more. Continue adding the chosen graduation until you have moved ONE increment above your chosen maximum powder charge.

https://archive.retro.co.za/archive/firearms/Dan%20Newberry%20-%20OCW.pdf

 

[Blkram]

I never did...but with QuickLoad now, I can see what the potential maximum will be in a certain load that has been typically downloaded, for a pressure known to be safe in my action e.g., 65,000 psi in my Sako 85 for the 6.5x55 or the Rem 700 for the 280 Rem.
As stated above, in the end, I still am looking for the accuracy over velocity; but if I do get both, I am even happier, whether it be for velocity to achieve a flatter trajectory out of my 280 Rem or 6.5x55, or more retained energy for more initial smack and penetration of heavy muscle and bone on an animal such as a bear, moose, or elk with my 358 Win.

 

[JD338]

Reloading manuals are a reference guide, every rifle is different. There are also variants with powder, primers and cases.
My 257 Roberts shoots 115 gr BT with charge weight of RL22 that's well above book max. This load is safe in my rifle because the Remington long/magnum action allows me to seat the bullet out to a COAL of 2.900".

JD338

 

[Hunter26]

Before I got a chronograph I never went above max and don't that often still, but I do occasionally to get the velocity I'm looking for unless I see pressure signs. Most modern bolt guns seem to be able to handle it just fine. The only rifle that I saw that would not take pressures close to max was a buddy's Remington 788. Anything more than mid range loads would get you a stiff bolt. They weren't known for being strong but it was certainly accurate.

 

[RL338]

A lot of my Wby cartridges don’t have much published load data out there for bullets I shoot. This is where QL is handy , it gets me an idea where to start and work up.

 

[phil]

Maximum published data is usually conservative, considers any make and model, and these days, has a lawyer’s stamp of approval.
Your setup has its own maximum. Chamber size, brass used, bullet bearing surface and several other factors contribute.
Work up to it and be aware of the signs it gives.
Measuring brass expansion at the pressure ring, .200 line is a great way to know for certain when you’ve found max pressure. Keep it at or slightly below chamber dimension, and you are safely at the top.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Reloading manuals and on-line data sounces often vary a lot. So, a load that's acceptable in one location might be over the top in another. It's always helpful to review multiple sources as you work up loads. Some of the brass available today tends to mask pressure. It's not all that hard to exceed SAMMI pressure limits without seeing any of the usual early warning signs. A chronograph is a good indicator of pressure, high or low. Generally speaking, "there's no free lunch" in the search for top velocity.

Reloading is a hobby that requires knowledge, experience and a bit of reluctance to go for that last 50fps.

 

[TackDriver284]

I use reloading manuals as a guide, not as a Bible. They do give valuable information but have different data due to different case volumes, bullet chamber dimensions, barrel length, bullet seating depth. Each manufacturer's laboratory have different methods to check pressure and velocity data. I use Quickload for extra information and work up safely and observe cases after firing to look for pressure. Most important of all, use common sense and safety protocols. I do go over max book charges for some rifles and once I see pressure, I back off on charges by a half grain or so until I find best accuracy and tweak it with bullet seating depths to tighten groups. An accurate chronograph is a very important instrument as well to determine velocity when testing your rifles at the range. My 6.5 x 284 are 3-4 grains over book if I can rememeber using H4831sc, it would not match book velocity and was in the very low pressure range after data input in Quickload in regards to H20 case fill and adjusting burn rates. Finalized the work ups with it resulting in itty bitty groups at the velocity I wanted. Works for me. The most important of all is work up safely and use common sense and don't hot rod it, if you want a 308 to go super fast, then upgrade to a 300 Weatherby. Pressures on rifle chambers have their limitations. I prefer accuracy over speed and most of my rifles are at book max or a bit over.

 

[ReloadKy]

From the sounds of it, everyone on here is pretty much of the same belief as me; accuracy is more important than velocity. However getting the best of both and remaining safe is a nice bonus. I have only gone over book max a couple of times and when I did it resulted in a marriage of tiny groups, low SD / ES and the velocity that I wanted. I can only surmise that in those instances I had reached the "sweet spot" for that particular rifle, load combo. Typically I can get the velo and group that I want by staying below recommended max charge weights, I was just curious to see what all the experts on here thought.

 

[sako2]

Some powders don't burn consistent until you reach max pressure or close to it.

 

[RL338]

Some powders don't burn consistent until you reach max pressure or close to it.

RL-33 is one of those that comes to mind.

 

[Blkram]

I did not note in my first post of this thread, but for most of my reloading, I did not have a chronograph. Once I had one, I was able to verify what my loads were actually producing. Now that I have my Garmin, life has gotten even better, as my old chrony did not prove to be as reliable as I would have liked with many missed readings over time. Plus it is much simpler to use!

 

[badaxeriverman]

I normally will do ladder tests and check for pressure along the way.

Normally I'm loading my OAL than whatever book load it is so I'm sure that's probably why I rarely hit Max pressures.


With my varmint loads I used to load up to maybe one grain above book load in .2 grain increments. Most of my 243 loads will shoot one whole groups with one grain over maxbook loads but I'm also seat the bullet out farther.


So by the time I get done with going higher in a powder charge it's probably closer to a maxbook load pressure and velocity with the longer OAL.

The only reason I do it with the 243 is because I wanted to shoot as flat as it possibly can for long range coyote hunting. I've learned with reloading over the decades when loading hot you're only gaining another 50 to 100 ft per second at the max and on paper that's maybe a half inch drop difference at 300 yards.

So I kind of gone away from pushing the envelope in the last 15 years or so except for one instance and I ended up wrecking the gun.

No pressure signs casing wise but the gun literally ratgled apart on a 450 Bushmaster American. It has the same action rated for 65,000 PSI that they use for the 300 Win short Mag. Everything kept rattling loose on it along with the bolt stop holes and trigger group holes hogged out. The magazine also fell out when I pulled the trigger. The scope kept coming loose because the scope base screws kept rattling loose.

...But I never had casing pressure signs so there's obviously other signs to look for other than casing pressures to tell you you're too high of pressures.

Same with my 35 Whelen. I tried to duplicate super performance ammo. Whether it was a coincidence or not the barrel pump slide kept coming loose. I had the blue Loctite in place along with the pump nut. I have since uzed starting loads instead of Max loads with that gun and it's more accurate anyways. Basically 358 win velocities amd pressures.

After those 2 past ordeals I don't load past maxbookloads unless I'm dealing with the 243. Those 243s just like to be ran hot for best accuracy.

I can also remember when my RCBS digital scale that was 13 years old when on the blink. It overcharged a 44 Magnum load and I had to pound the bolt open in my 77/44 with a proven Max load that was shooting some Moa turned into a nightmare. Luckily I didn't wreck the gun.

So if you're playing with Max loads and over book loads be prepared to wreck...or repair... your guns eventually.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Also I would tell you just to try a different powder if you're not getting the velocities that you think you should be. Seating your bullet deeper will also gain in velocity but it will also build in pressure and it might also hurt your accuracy and open up your groups.

Another one that comes to mind is getting a Lee Factory crimp collet die. I crimp my 243s I run in my AR with it. It puts a nice even seal around the neck especially if you have uneven neck tensions from random brass you picked up at the range. I've used Range brass in various fired brass that some seat easier, some seat loose, and some seat tight. It just happens as far as I'm concerned. By using that Lee Factory crimp collet diet puts a nice even seal around your necks for more of a consistent release that will one in my opinion build pressures cuz it's holding it tighter in place until it will be more consistent and accurate for a hunting round besides being safer and not sliding back into your case from recoil. I don't use it in my bolt guns though just my ar10s.

I think three out of four of my pet loads or maybe a grain above Max book load in my 243s. In my other countless Firearms I reload for nothing else is overboards even though I've tried some ladder testing I just didn't get the best accuracy with anything above book loads. A lot of the other calibers do really good at maxbook loads.

I tell you to worry more about accuracy than velocity.

When I find a load from my ladder test that will all print in the same hole I call it a day. That becomes my new hunting load after I tried a few more times and it still consistently prints like that.

I'd rather have a load that shoots all in the same hole and does 100 to 150 ft per second slower versus a faster load that prints closer to MOA or a hair above it. I can figure out drops I can't figure out spread that goes from MOA to three or four inches versus one that shoots the same hole and will still shoot sub MOA out to 400 yards for me and may drop a few inches more but at least I know I'm going to hit exactly where I am other than I have to figure out my drops.

 

[TexasLife]

with no chrono at the time and no issues on extractions or case/primer problems the 1st time i went beyond published data was when i 1st started reloading. i still use that same load today as i did back 41 years ago with sierra 140sbt's, imr4831 @ 61.3grs. 1 day i'll chrono some. that load was shot out of a prer64 264wm ('61 model) and i have a post64 that i've shot the same load in, but the bolt was a little sticky on open and close. then again it was only the 1st 6 rounds. i've come too know that ql takes lots of correct info to be used safely..............i found this out on some 357sig loads w/blue dot.............nothing bad happened, but does require a comp when using those loads.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Yeah I own a chronograph but I've never ran my first loads through that do get sticky every once in awhile with one of my 243s when it's super hot out and I'm hunting for predators in Arizona. I figure I probably have too long of an overall length and some of them crunch as well. Someday I'll have to run that load through my chronograph. I know it's a hot load at least a grain over Max using a 70 grain Nosler ballistic tip. It prints 3 in the same hole at 200 yards to the point that it looks like you missed it the other two times.