Hunting Cartridges - an excellent article

[Guy Miner]

From well respected Ross Seyfried:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross-s ... gnum-myth/

You .270 Win fans will like this...

 

[DrMike]

An excellent article, Guy. Practicality is never sexy; but Seyfried is correct. Doubtful that many readers will take it seriously--but they should.

 

[Guy Miner]

I particularly enjoyed this paragraph:

"Too, here in Oregon where we have guided lots of successful elk hunters, I see hunters with the most expensive, plastic super-accurate “elk rifles” often fail miserably. The hunters did not need a rifle that would shoot the expensive and claimed half-inch group, with the flattest trajectory and loudest roar. Instead they needed a rifle that would allow them to hit a soccer ball at 150 yards. So, while you cannot buy skill, it is in my opinion very easy to buy a false sense of security that turns into what amounts to a handicap!"

And remember that Ross is the guy who designed the .300 & .338 G&A magnums, which Remington later brought out as the .300 and .338 Ultra Mags - so he understands the lure of the big cases & high velocity very well. More than most of us I'd say...

But it's his practical experience as a guide here, and I think in Africa (Maybe just a hunter there? I can't remember...) that leads him to the conclusions of his article.

Regards, Guy

 

[wildgene]

...great article, but I'm old & will probably remain a proponent of "Mor'dedder", w/ the caveat of "Shoot the biggest bullet you can shoot well". I've got rifles that shoot 1/2 MOA or less consistently, but 3/4 MOA from field positions, well, I manage to shoot 'em 1 MOPDAWG... :shock: :roll: :? :mrgreen:

 

[Guy Miner]

BTW - I put this here under "Reloading" because the article has much discussion of cartridges, and we seem to discuss various cartridges a lot here in this section.

Could have been appropriately placed under rifles, hunting, or off-topic I suppose...

Guy

 

[hubcap]

Excellent article. I think Ross made a pretty excellent point regarding bullets we have today versus the past. Its definitely nice to grab an 06 or .270 with a great bullet and go kill what you want without the recoil of the magnums. I can shoot my 300Magnum just fine but anything bigger or hits the shoulder harder begins to effect my skill level as Ross would say. Essentially Ross is saying the same thing Wane Van Swoll says. Use the cartridge you shoot well and pick the correct bullet for the game. If you can handle a 338 Ultra Mag. then that's fine too.

 

[Bruce Mc]

For someone who wasn't a proponent of Jack O'Connor he sure knows the book, line and verse. I think the key to the conversation is sensible which he describes as different for different folks. Great read especially since he touts the .270 win.

By the way, what ever happened to the 140 failsafe?

 

[DrMike]

Because of the only cup-and-core bullets were available during the earlier years of hand loading, the emphasis was on energy transfer and shooting heavy for caliber bullets. The monolithic bullets and changes in bullet construction to maintain integrity, penetration has become king. It was difficult to transition for some old dogs, but eventually the light dawns and it becomes apparent that maintaining bullet integrity does ensure clean kills. As I've aged, I have come to understand that my .280 (or a .270, a .30-06 or any of a variety of other cartridges) are excellent field cartridges with the appropriate bullet and the application of some basic shooting skills.

 

[69gto]

I killed my first 11 bull elk with a .270 win. when I was a youngster, then someone older told me you can't hunt elk with a .270 you need a 300 mag so I bought one and it didn't kill any deader. Eventually I worked my way up to a.378 wby. and now I am back to a .270 wby. and sometimes a heavy 10lb. .338 win.

 

[BretN]

By the way, what ever happened to the 140 failsafe?

I think just plain old economics. It was too expensive and time consuming to build and not enough sales to support it. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the failsafe had twice as many steps to build as even the Partition. Don't quote me on that figure, but it's a lot more complicated bullet to make. No doubt it was a hell of a bullet, but just look at a cross section of one in an old Nosler manual and you can imagine how much went into making one.

Great article. I occasionally think it would be nice to have a 300 WM or some other wonder magnum. Then I go shoot my 30-06. If I'm honest with myself, I know that that gun is about my limit of comfortably shooting and managing the recoil. Anything more than that and I won't enjoy shooting it, which means I won't shoot it much, which is not acceptable to me. I refuse to have a ported gun either. So I'll stick with the standard calibers that I've been happy with for 25 years.

 

[salmonchaser]

I love my 338 Jarrett. I know I shoot just about every other rifle I own, including the 375 better, particularly off hand. It's never cost me an elk, but I think I say "damn" every time I pull the trigger, then wipe the snot off the scope lens. I don't shoot it for fun very much.
Really enjoyed the article, great insight.

 

[69gto]

I hear you Salmon chaser, my .378 wby. gave me a headache after 3 shots and made me talk like Elmer Fudd. Was like being hit by George Forman.

 

[JD338]

Shot placement is paramount.

JD338

 

[Guy Miner]

And that's Ross's point - any of our standard hunting cartridges, well handled, can put a very high quality bullet, like a Nosler Partition, Win Failsafe, or one of the mono-metal bullets through the vitals and kill. And kill well.

It's really up to the hunter/marksman.

Guy

 

[salmonchaser]

Absolutely correct.

 

[lefty315]

Excellent article Guy! There is a lot to be said about a modest recoiling gun that you can hit what you're shooting at. We finished a Hunter Ed class on Saturday and one of the Dad's was wondering what he should buy his son. I recommended the 7mm-08 as a great starter gun that will serve his son his entire life. The Dad said something about wanting to hunt elk someday and he may have to buy him another gun. I quickly made the comparison to the 7x57 and 270 and told him you probably couldn't come up with a number high enough to account for the game those cartridges have taken, and the 7mm-08 is right there with them.

It's doubtful that I, or anyone else on this forum, will ever just have one rifle to hunt with. But if I were to pick, it would be hard to beat the plain Jane modest calibers mentioned in the article.

 

[gerry]

Good article. I have found myself getting rid of the big boomers as well in recent years and haven't missed them.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

This is one of the VERY best articles I have ever read.

Thanks for sharing Guy!

Dale

 

[preacher]

Great article, I really like Ross Seyfrieds writings. It was his sojourn to to Australia witht he 30-06 and the 165X that sold me. He was shooting those wild donkeys on the point of the shoulder and his guide thought he was shooting them in the head! This back in '88 or '89 while I was still in Bible college. The only rifle I had then was my 1917 sporter, in '06 and I learned a lot about the first X bullets. They fouled bores easily, but that was why we used the Barnes copper solvent, easy. The problem was that some rifles loved them, some didn't. I also learned that I had to really ease into close to Max velocity because they "bumped up" , were sticky and got plenty of velocity with less powder. Yep, I popped a few primers along the way, ha! The newer ones did better with each generation, finally, I like the TTSX the best. Meanwhile, when my dad passed away back in 2001, I bought an older Belgium made BAR .270 locally ( from an old gentleman who used it as his only rifle, he shot handloaded 150 partitions in it) I had it cleaned, reblued with some engraving on the sides to commemorate my dad. It was to be used sparingly, and I didn't handload for it then. The Winchester factory 140 Failsafes shot in .75 all day long from this thing! I only shot one Spanish goat with it , my Godson had hit it too far back and I finished it off with a lengthwise "D.C. heart shot" ( why blame Texas all the time? Its Washington that has an eye on our keesters! ) I had every confidence in it as I had already used X, XLC and XBT and Failsafe bullets in the 300's, 340W, 375 and 35 WAI. Then...Winchester stopped making them and my rifle didn't like any of the new styles ( well, I'm still talking 1.5", which aint bad!) When the new powders showed up, R26 and the 150BT shows promise, but the old standby H4831/130PT gives me that same .75"! So I'm happy. I've never been a big user of the .270....mostly because I saw others use it, saw that it was so good it was "boring to me" at the time, ha, just like the '06. Since I cut my teeth on the 30-30 and the 30-06, I'm still partial to both. I tease my buddies out here who use the .270 on elk, but I know I may as well get ready to help skin one out! I appreciate the time and opportunities I have had over the years to experiment/hunt/observe and I can heartily agree with everything Mr Ross said! My .35 WAI is my biggest rifle now, and its plenty, my .270 is my smallest now (hunting rifles) My new to me Mod 70FWT is 30-06 and I have a 7mm Mag as a long range shooter ( which I seldom ever do anymore) With these ever newer powders/bullets, these smaller cartridges have really upped the game! Its a great time to be a handloader/hunter!

 

[tecumseh]

That was a good read! I shoot my 280 the most out of everything I own and with a 140 gr Barnes TTSX or PT I'm not under gunned hunting with it.