I hang my head in shame...

[Africa Huntress]

I would get it if it is still available Tom. The 7 x 57 for the daughter would be a great build, but so would the 35 Whelen for yourself. Michele might be more o.k. with the purchase if you told her you were getting it for Anna and it is not a bad caliber for you as well while waiting on her to be old enough to use it. You will figure it out and do the right thing, you always do

 

[tddeangelo]

Thanks for good input, Aleena.

My friend who is getting the 300H&H together for me has a pre-64 358 Win barrel on hand and for sale. I don't know what he'll want for it, but I asked. He mentioned it could be rechambered for 35 Whelen and keep a very classic profile to the rifle.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Rechambering a Pre 64, .358 Win barrel to .35 Whelen would be a felony in most Winchester Collector Club member's eyes! Winchester only chambered a few (maybe 1500) .358 Win barrels and they are like hen's teeth to find now. Just my opinion.

 

[tddeangelo]

That's kind of what I was thinking, Charlie, but I wasn't sure. That also means that barrel would command a price I would probably not want to pay, when for a shooter rifle and not a collector piece, it's simply not worth that kind of premium to me. I could shop that project around looking for what best fits my view for the rifle and go from there.

My buddy felt $495 was an appropriate price, but not a steal, on this rifle. The extra holes are a killer from a collectibility standpoint. He sees it as a hunting rifle, with no real "premium" for being a pre-64 as it has lost most of it's collector interest via the added holes. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't take a ride to see it and haggle on it a tad....

 

[taylorce1]

Go look at it again, if you don't you'll always wonder about it. I recently owned a Pre-64 FWT custom for about three days. I wound up selling it to a NINE year old future hunter. It was kind of cool owning a custom M70 Pre-64 in .280 Rem but I would have re-barreled it to a .338-06 or .270 anyway. Cool thing about the rifle is it weighed 7.5 and lbs and slightly under 8 lbs all up so by the time my friends boy is 12 and can chase elk it won't wear him out to carry it all day.

 

[Africa Huntress]

That's kind of what I was thinking, Charlie, but I wasn't sure. That also means that barrel would command a price I would probably not want to pay, when for a shooter rifle and not a collector piece, it's simply not worth that kind of premium to me. I could shop that project around looking for what best fits my view for the rifle and go from there.

My buddy felt $495 was an appropriate price, but not a steal, on this rifle. The extra holes are a killer from a collectibility standpoint. He sees it as a hunting rifle, with no real "premium" for being a pre-64 as it has lost most of it's collector interest via the added holes. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't take a ride to see it and haggle on it a tad....

Tom, IMHO Charlie is spot on, I would not recommend you go the 358/35 Whelen route for a variety of reasons.

Also, your buddy may be correct Tom. those two holes do make a difference if your looking at this from the collectors point of view, or if that is why your buying the gun. It was my understanding that you were not buying it as a collectors item, but as a donor for a build. In that case those holes can be taken care of and if done properly nobody but you will know they were once there, going forward, at least not to the naked eye. It still would not be an unblemished collectable of course and should not be sold without disclosing the fact that the holes were once there. Remember the place in PA where we found the 270 for Kelly, they have a couple of pre 64, 30/06 that are in great shape, but they are 1500 and 2800. My point Tom is perhaps 495 is not great, but it is damn good, especially for the reason that you want it for. drive over handle it, inspect it, haggle a little, but if the two holes are the only thing different between it and the others for sale at over 1000, some a lot over, then it is still a good deal. As I said before, you are very good at thinking these things through and without a doubt you will do the right thing --for you. But wanted to put the price in perspective for you before you drive over. Also in order to get in shape for hunting season I recommend you ride a bike over to his shop--just trying to be helpful LOL

 

[tddeangelo]

That's kind of what I was thinking, Charlie, but I wasn't sure. That also means that barrel would command a price I would probably not want to pay, when for a shooter rifle and not a collector piece, it's simply not worth that kind of premium to me. I could shop that project around looking for what best fits my view for the rifle and go from there.

My buddy felt $495 was an appropriate price, but not a steal, on this rifle. The extra holes are a killer from a collectibility standpoint. He sees it as a hunting rifle, with no real "premium" for being a pre-64 as it has lost most of it's collector interest via the added holes. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't take a ride to see it and haggle on it a tad....

Tom, IMHO Charlie is spot on, I would not recommend you go the 358/35 Whelen route for a variety of reasons.

Also, your buddy may be correct Tom. those two holes do make a difference if your looking at this from the collectors point of view, or if that is why your buying the gun. It was my understanding that you were not buying it as a collectors item, but as a donor for a build. In that case those holes can be taken care of and if done properly nobody but you will know they were once there, going forward, at least not to the naked eye. It still would not be an unblemished collectable of course and should not be sold without disclosing the fact that the holes were once there. Remember the place in PA where we found the 270 for Kelly, they have a couple of pre 64, 30/06 that are in great shape, but they are 1500 and 2800. My point Tom is perhaps 495 is not great, but it is damn good, especially for the reason that you want it for. drive over handle it, inspect it, haggle a little, but if the two holes are the only thing different between it and the others for sale at over 1000, some a lot over, then it is still a good deal. As I said before, you are very good at thinking these things through and without a doubt you will do the right thing --for you. But wanted to put the price in perspective for you before you drive over. Also in order to get in shape for hunting season I recommend you ride a bike over to his shop--just trying to be helpful LOL

I'm not sure how to take that last comment....lol. You're lucky I'm male and can handle such harsh criticism of my physique....lol.

And...it's 78 miles one way, via interstate. Even in rural PA I may get looked at funny for biking down miles of interstate wth a rifle cross-slung on my back. :|

I talked some with a member of another forum who has vast experience with rifle projects. His take was very staunchly in support of a new barrel...period. It seems Krieger offers a service for not much more to trace a barrel contour, and they will even add the rear sight base contour and threaded hole for that bolt in the stock. Basically, it would have the same profile as an original barrel, but would clearly not be one, nor could it be mistaken for one.

He recommended a 1:12 Krieger, as it will overstabilize what is out there now in bullet selection, but be able to handle some of the possible future offerings that may come down the pipe in 358 bullet selection for the Whelen. Don't ask me to explain the where's and why's of that, though...lol.

I think I will call the seller about maybe coming to see him at some point. I can put a "hold" on it if needed. Looking around, M70 Classics (New Haven production) are hitting about $400-$600, so I would pay almost as much, or MORE, for a Classic as I would for a pre-64.

Of course, the OTHER option is to keep this one an '06 and tear apart the Classic I already have. Only problem there is the Classic in '06 I have now has repeatedly turned in 1/2" groups with my current handload! :shock:

Honestly, the holes in the side are meaningless to me in this case. Maybe I'd have them done over, but more than likely not. Once a custom barrel goes on it, I can relax in worrying about full disclosure, as it will no longer be a collector piece, although that's already the case anyway.

You are correct...my buddy is looking at it from a collector standpoint, and even said for a shooter it's not a bad price.

Michele thought briefly that I was going to do this rifle INSTEAD of the 300H&H, and when I corrected that misconception, it was dicey for a few minutes, lol. We're sorted out now, and I have it all squared away.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Tom, my Super Grade .270 had side holes on the action for a scope mount back in 1949. I had a gunsmith fill the holes, weld and polish them, then recut the "Winchester" back into the action were the holes were. They jeweled the inside of the lug race and now you can not even see where the holes were anymore. If you are concerned about them, they can be covered.

Personally if it were me, in a shooter, I would put some tapped plugs into the holes and ignore them.

 

[tddeangelo]

Tom, my Super Grade .270 had side holes on the action for a scope mount back in 1949. I had a gunsmith fill the holes, weld and polish them, then recut the "Winchester" back into the action were the holes were. They jerweled the inside of the lug race and now you can not even see where the holes were anymore. If you are concerned about them, they can be covered.

Personally if it were me, in a shooter, I would put some tapped plugs into the holes and ignore them.

They are plugged with screws (proper ones for the purpose). For all I care, it can stay that way. I doesn't matter to me in the least.

 

[pre6422hornet]

Words cannot describe the sorrow that I feel in my heart Tom!

Especially when you say it was a 1949. Like Charlie, my 1949 is probably the best shooting rifle I own. I am scared to even scope it for that matter.

I went down to the gun room and tried with the best of my ability to explain to the 70's that their was a brother out there needing a good home........

 

[Oldtrader3]

Pat, good thinking but I would need a home if I brought home another 1949 Model 70 at present!

 

[tddeangelo]

Rifle is on hold for me.

He put in for tables at a show 30 min from my house that is coming up mid-July. He won't know till next week if he got them. He's going to hold it for me till I get back to him one way or another. If he brings it to that show, I'm home free. No need for FFL or long drive.

This one is coming home with me, I believe. Pat, you can tell it's brethren it will have a good home.

 

[hunternyny]

Good for you Tom and best of luck with your build

 

[tddeangelo]

Thanks, John. Good to see you around again, bud.

 

[DrMike]

Tom,

I do believe you will enjoy working with this rifle. Good move, I do believe.

 

[tddeangelo]

Thanks, DrMike. It will be a few weeks till I can get it in hand, but there's no rush. I'll just be tempted to shoot it, and I can't do much with my intended project till my flintlock project is over.

I know I'll wind up shooting it. We may have to send Scotty up to PA when he gets home to keep my will strong.

 

[SJB358]

I am glad you grabbed the rifle Tom. It is a steal. Heck, if I would have seen it I would have grabbed it for my 35 Newton build..

 

[tddeangelo]

Scotty, I'm relying on you to keep me on the straight and narrow here. You and I both know that when I shoot this sucker, it's gonna print a quarter-minute group and I won't wanna touch it.

Keep me on the righteous path to a 358 bore!!!!

 

[DrMike]

There are a number of us who have your back, Tom. Don't shoot the donor.

 

[tddeangelo]

That's gonna be tough, Mike. Gonna be a couple years till it can fulfill it's stated purpose.