It doesn't take a lot of cartridge, just a good shot

[Guy Miner]

I've maintained that for 40 years, since starting to hunt with a 6mm Remington. Time to time I do use the larger bores, even up to .375, .458 and a muzzle loader in .50 cal... But mostly it's been .24 and .25 cal rifles.

Quite the example here, elk at 688 yards, with a .243 Winchester! Nice shooting...

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/pl ... mp=yhs-001

Guy

 

[DrMike]

That is, indeed, quite the example.

 

[Guy Miner]

Longer shot than I'd take, even with my long-range experience, but yes, I am impressed with her marksmanship! As well as the killing power of the little .243 at that distance.

Makes me laugh at the guys who say the .243 is a 150 - 200 yard deer rifle... :mrgreen:

 

[DrMike]

For the most part, the energy delivered by the .243 is anaemic at those distances. However, the trajectory of the bullet and the added mass combine to ensure rapid expansion of the VLD delivered somewhat downward ensures penetration and frequent spine disruption. There is no question but that modern optics and the firing platforms newer stocks provide can provide some exciting possibilities for the individual willing to spend the time training to deliver the goods. It would appear that Kasandra paid her dues and her hard work paid off. Undoubtedly there was some good coaching and encouragement to the young lady; but in the final analysis, she did the deed.

 

[SJB358]

Yeah, that is some good shooting. 680+ is a longer poke than I would be comfortable with in my 338.

 

[pre6422hornet]

From reading the trail of air disturbance it looks like her shot was in the shoulder/lung/boilermaker area as well!

Very nice shooting for sure!

You are absolutely correct Guy. Placement is the key no matter what. A well placed 243 will dispatch 100 times better than a 375 in any non vital area.

I hope some day my girls will be doing the same thing with the 243 Pink Princess!

 

[velvetant]

When I was growing up one of my friends father had 1 rifle, a 243.
He hunted deer and elk, used 100gr Nosler partitions.
Always came home with game.

 

[Elkman]

I agree about shot placement being the key element. And I applaud her for her shooting skills. However I also know that way to many things could have gone wrong. I have seen and personally experienced these "things". What if, the elk took a step or two, if an errant gust of wind had occurred, if the shot had been pulled just ever so slightly, there are a number of things that "could" have happened, all of which could have changed the outcome, and not for the better.
There is no margine of error, with a cartridge of this size, non what so ever, a bad hit can result in a wounded and lost elk. In my hunting history I have happened upon "several" circumstances where this caliber of rifle resulted in lost game. A couple were recovered by me, totally accidentally, but lost by others . Three of these were shot by a .243, their owners and I met later. One of my co workers lost three bull elk, all shot with a 6.5 Swede, non recovered, until the Ravens found them.
I am not perfect, over the 50 years I have hunted I have made several bad shots, all recovered but two deer, one of which I know died. I don't shoot a magnum because I enjoy recoil, it's for that little extra insurance, for that imperfect shot placement, for the 500 yard shot, it gives me just a little insurance.
Last comment, I do not like videos like this, because someone is going to see this, and will be "sure" that his 90 grain "watch a call it" rifle, is now a confirmed large game killer, and eventually attempt this shot, after burning off 20 or 30 rounds, in preparation.

 

[Vince]

I concur with Bill.
While I hold myself to a 600 Yard limit I have yet to attempt a shot that far on game eventhough I routinely bang steel that far and further.
Conditions, and my position, would have to be perfect for me to attempt that far of a shot on game and not with a .243 anything.
I like shooting things one or two zip codes away. The problem is that there are a lot of variables that come in to play that I don't think a lot of people take in to account before they unleash the shot.
One can see this every year before hunting season. The esteemed hunter shows up at the range and takes five or ten shots to get on steel at 500 meters with a box of factory ammo. Once he hears the report of his bullet hitting steel he calls it good. Then he goes home thinking he is prepared for hunting season and can shoot game that far never minding where his bullet landed on that life size steel ram.

Vince

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[sask boy]

Shot placement is everything that young lady made one heck of a shot.
I don't think I would use a 243 personally but the video proved a point.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Osprey78]

Nice shot, but would someone please riddle me this...

I have been watching a number of hunting videos on youtube as of late. From close range to long range shots. Why is it that it seems when a long range shot is taken, the animal seems to drop almost instantly where the close up shots...the animal usually (shot placement dependent) kicks and runs a bit.

Common sense would put it that there is less Ke at long range, but does most of that Ke stay within the animal, destroying it right then and there while the close shots tend to pass through the animal?? I realize there is a tonne more Ke at close range and in theory it should drop them in their tracks there, but it doesn't seem that way.

But like I always say, In THEORY, Communisim works too. :lol:

 

[Darkhorse]

Me, my wife, and son, hunted with a .243 back in the mid 70's to mid 80's with varying degrees of success. When I hunted with it I used mostly Sierra and Speer bullets as these were what was available at the time.
After one particularly long blood trail I swore to never hunt with that caliber again. Seems every animal I shot the bullets either exploded or never expanded. I was using 100 gr. bullets.
Then I tried the Hornady interlock spire point and Remington Corelock.. Totally different results. My wife and son went on to take numerous deer with little problem. Most likely the Nosler Partition would have done much better if I could have gotten my hands on some.
A well constructed bullet, preferably a bonded or Partition, must be used even if a good shot is achieved.
Personally I still prefer a larger caliber for hunting the thick woods where I hunt. I like more frontal area and a larger hole for blood trails. Maybe out west where it is more open and you can watch the animal expire the .243 would excite me again but right now I prefer a .308.
As bullets have gotten better the .243 seems to be a much better hunting caliber from the accolades it receives but I still remember the old days.

 

[Anonymous]

I think dropping them in their tracks is far more dependent on where you hit them than what you hit them with and is largely independent of KE figures.

 

[DrMike]

I have been watching a number of hunting videos on youtube as of late. From close range to long range shots. Why is it that it seems when a long range shot is taken, the animal seems to drop almost instantly where the close up shots...the animal usually (shot placement dependent) kicks and runs a bit.

The bullet is dropping rather fast at longer ranges. Thus, the impact is much near the spine, disrupting the CNS, even if momentarily. Hence, the animal loses ability to continue standing.

 

[Guy Miner]

Nice shot, but would someone please riddle me this...

I have been watching a number of hunting videos on youtube as of late. From close range to long range shots. Why is it that it seems when a long range shot is taken, the animal seems to drop almost instantly where the close up shots...the animal usually (shot placement dependent) kicks and runs a bit.

Common sense would put it that there is less Ke at long range, but does most of that Ke stay within the animal, destroying it right then and there while the close shots tend to pass through the animal?? I realize there is a tonne more Ke at close range and in theory it should drop them in their tracks there, but it doesn't seem that way.

But like I always say, In THEORY, Communisim works too. :lol:

Frankly, after using them, I think it's the Berger VLD bullet. It is an instant killer in my experience. Only three mule deer, from the 115 gr .25 cal Berger, but not even a twitch after the bullet hit in two of the three. One severed the spine (shot from way above) and the buck needed a second shot into the lungs to finish him. They are devastatingly deadly bullets, usually breaking up in the vitals.

So, placed well, they produce instant, or near-instant death, even at long range.

But, that's just my thought. Others WILL disagree.

Regards, Guy

 

[Darkhorse]

Personally I tend to completely ignore KE on game under elk size. If you hit the spine the animal drops in it's tracks. If you don't he usually doesn't. If shot through the heart lung area the bullet usually expends the remaining KE in the dirt on the other side of the animal.
I have shot a number of animals in the chest with the .44 mag, 7 mag and 300 mag where the bullet did not exit the animal. Several shots into the shield of wild boar with the 7 mag. and .54 round ball which also remained inside the ribcage. On none of these did the animal react any different than a regular heart lung shot. All the KE was absorbed by the animal and none dropped in their tracks.
Shot placement trumps any theory about KE from my experience. Spinal disruption of some sort ends the chase right there.
Though I will admit to having more good sized bucks drop in their tracks from the soft tissue hit, heart, lungs, when using the .300 Winny. I attribute this to velocity, animal mass and bullet performance. On smaller doe's the bullets seem to blow on through before fully expanding resulting in longer trailing jobs.
I thought the KE thing in the beginning was a formula to attempt and predict whether a caliber was sufficient for the taking of elephant, buffalo and hippo, where penetration was the key.

A question about those Bergers; If they perform as described doesn't that tend to leave a lot of lead shrapnel in the meat, rendering it unusable? That's the main reason I've never tried them.

 

[Guy Miner]

From what I've seen, admittedly only three deer, the Bergers don't come apart in the first few inches, they actually poke a very small hole through the hide and muscle. Then, when they're in the chest cavity, surrounded by lungs & heart, that's when they expand violently. I didn't find a lot of "shrapnel" in the deer I shot. Probably came out during the field dressing.

I got as much meat from those deer as from any I'd shot with any other kind of bullet from a high velocity cartridge.

Guy

 

[Thebear_78]

Those Bergers are probably fine on smaller big game like deer or pronghorns but I haven't been to impressed with their penetration on the few examples I have seen. One a sheep where the bullet failed to exit an angled broadside shot but left a huge jellied mess on the impact side, killed the sheep quickly, but the lack of penetration was troubling.

The other was a 168gr berger vld out of a 300 wsm, hit a decent goat square on the shoulder. Massive damage at impact, completely destroyed the shoulder, but no penetration into the body cavity. The goat was hard hurt but very much alive when they climbed up to it.

I'm of the want an exit side of the terminal discussion so shoot mainly bullets like Partition, monometals, or bonded bullets.

I don't doubt that placed right in the ribcage, even at long ranges, the berger could be very deadly. I just feel better with a higher chance of an exit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SJB358]

I don't use Berger's, haven't shot very many of them either, but man do they invoke conversation. I do think the larger, heavier ones have something going for them, like the 168/180's in the 7mm, 140's in the 6.5's and 190/210's in the 30 cals. They have some decent mass that would seem like it should poke through as Guy mentioned and do a bunch of disruption. It's hard to fault the guys that use those, the AMAX's and SCENARS. I have seen a bunch of the take from them. Each to their own, a crappy bullet in the good stuff is a sure killer. I just go about it a little differently..

Those video's are cool to watch and I applaud them for their work to get em. I think bowhunter's take as much flak as they do as well.

I know there are a few on here that run the Bergers (300WinMag) uses the 215's I think and is DEADLY with that combo. Between the mass and speed of that big honker of a bullet, seems like he'd do alot of killing with it. Each to their own.

 

[Oldtrader3]

My problem is shooting that animal a zip code away and having some cowboy ride up on his horse and tag your 4-point while you are still huffing it over to there!!! Yes, I have had it happen and it was with a .243 Win!