Pop or smeone please help!

[smitty81]

There is this guy that keeps telling me that a 10mm auto can be loaded hotter than a 41. rem mag. Im telling this guy that he's nuts and is crazy for trying this. He says the 10mm can push the 180 gr. bullet faster and harder than the 41 mag.

Can u run that computer program you have to compare the 41 mag and the 10 mm at the 180 gr. bullet stage.

Thanks for any help

 

[YoteSmoker]

It is my understanding that the 10mm can be loaded equivalently to a 357 Mag, but definitely not 41 Mag or higher. A comparison by POP should tell the tale!

 

[JD338]

A comparison of the cases should tell you that you can't do it. And shooting a 10mm in an auto should also be factored into the equation. :?

JD338

 

[smitty81]

A comparison of the cases should tell you that you can't do it. And shooting a 10mm in an auto should also be factored into the equation. :?

JD338

I follow you on the case comparison but what does being a semi auto have to do with anything?

when i refered to 10 mm auto, I was refering to the round, not the wheapon. This is being shot out of a glock.

 

[FOTIS]

Let him do it but stay pretty far away when he fires it..... :lol:



Cartridge : 10 mm Auto (SAAMI)
Bullet : .400, 180, Hornady HP/XTP 40040
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.260 inch or 32.00 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch or 127.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 31000 psi, or 213 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Rottweil P806 105.0 11.2 0.73 1217 95.4 29712 5547 0.536 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL 93.1 7.9 0.51 1174 90.0 31000 4942 0.531 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.7 89.6 10.3 0.67 1168 79.4 31000 4952 0.531 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0051 90.9 7.2 0.46 1163 91.6 31000 4759 0.533 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S221 81.7 9.1 0.59 1147 86.9 31000 4664 0.544 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 90 105.0 7.7 0.50 1146 97.8 29316 4390 0.540 ! Near Maximum !




Cartridge : .41 Rem. Mag. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .410, 180, Speer JHP 4404
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch or 40.39 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch or 127.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 34500 psi, or 237 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma R123 90.6 21.7 1.41 1526 95.7 34500 13460 0.487 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Lil'Gun 102.5 25.6 1.66 1510 79.7 34500 13068 0.460 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 296 100.5 25.9 1.68 1478 68.6 34500 12376 0.469 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R910 103.0 22.8 1.48 1476 81.0 34500 12053 0.458 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N105 94.4 17.7 1.15 1472 96.9 34500 11031 0.468 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110 100.4 25.8 1.67 1461 72.7 34500 11866 0.472 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Enforcer 90.7 22.2 1.44 1460 81.8 34500 11578 0.472 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 512 96.7 22.2 1.44 1457 81.5 34500 11490 0.473 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant 2400 90.3 20.6 1.33 1451 80.7 34500 11327 0.473 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil P806 81.5 19.6 1.27 1446 99.8 34500 10573 0.490 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.7 71.4 18.5 1.20 1445 90.1 34500 10872 0.473 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL 75.2 14.3 0.93 1438 97.3 34500 10315 0.467 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BLUE DOT 92.7 18.1 1.17 1436 89.0 34500 10706 0.471 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4100 93.3 23.1 1.50 1435 76.7 34500 10920 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.9 78.7 20.3 1.31 1434 84.0 34500 10733 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0051 74.2 13.2 0.85 1430 98.2 34500 9973 0.467 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0401 95.9 20.5 1.33 1429 80.4 34500 10580 0.465 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N38 87.9 17.2 1.11 1425 93.4 34500 10138 0.471 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.5 56.9 15.4 1.00 1418 96.0 34500 9855 0.467 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 105.0 25.2 1.63 1417 67.6 33063 10938 0.478 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S221 66.1 16.5 1.07 1417 95.5 34500 10019 0.478 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0361 59.0 14.6 0.95 1415 97.2 34500 9692 0.466 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0631 91.7 23.0 1.49 1413 69.8 34500 10273 0.462 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 90 85.7 14.2 0.92 1405 100.0 34500 8730 0.467 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 100 91.2 15.1 0.98 1403 97.9 34500 9291 0.466 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 102.9 23.1 1.50 1396 63.4 34500 10132 0.467 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2205 103.0 23.5 1.52 1388 72.8 34500 9809 0.468 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N37 76.4 14.2 0.92 1387 100.0 34500 8579 0.472 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon HS-6 62.2 14.8 0.96 1386 99.7 34500 8704 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N350 79.3 13.9 0.90 1382 100.0 34500 8378 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant HERCO 85.9 12.9 0.84 1376 100.0 34500 8298 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot True Blue 58.5 14.3 0.92 1376 100.0 34500 8367 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 504 59.4 14.3 0.92 1376 100.0 34500 8367 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 540 57.6 14.2 0.92 1376 100.0 34500 8349 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 501 64.3 13.4 0.87 1366 100.0 34500 7988 0.474 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WAP 62.9 13.1 0.85 1358 100.0 34500 7776 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE 76.2 11.8 0.76 1356 100.0 34500 7768 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Silhouette 62.6 13.1 0.85 1356 100.0 34500 7738 0.471 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110 105.0 21.4 1.38 1353 75.7 27596 10490 0.517
Alliant BULLSEYE 66.9 10.6 0.69 1351 100.0 34500 7590 0.469 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem MP200 70.4 12.4 0.81 1350 100.0 34500 7629 0.477 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 105.0 27.1 1.76 1349 54.8 32863 9345 0.474 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil J706 88.4 12.7 0.82 1348 100.0 34500 7761 0.499 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S265 105.0 23.1 1.50 1339 69.4 30972 9621 0.507 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 506 66.2 11.2 0.73 1334 100.0 34500 7340 0.483 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N340 74.6 11.9 0.77 1330 100.0 34500 7140 0.475 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem MS200 75.0 11.8 0.76 1329 100.0 34500 7184 0.480 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.2 55.9 11.2 0.73 1327 100.0 34500 7128 0.471 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil P803 68.5 12.0 0.78 1317 100.0 34500 7014 0.492 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0202 68.8 11.5 0.74 1317 100.0 34500 6889 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Universal 70.4 10.9 0.70 1300 100.0 34500 6724 0.486 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 70N 63.5 10.9 0.70 1300 100.0 34500 6724 0.486 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 515 73.0 11.4 0.74 1299 100.0 34500 6582 0.477 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N330 70.4 11.0 0.71 1298 100.0 34500 6549 0.482 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 105.0 23.1 1.49 1289 60.1 27921 8835 0.512
Rottweil P804 61.5 11.5 0.75 1288 100.0 34500 6579 0.496 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1250 75.8 10.9 0.70 1287 100.0 34500 6349 0.476 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 509 70.4 11.0 0.71 1280 100.0 34500 6309 0.480 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Zip 53.9 11.0 0.71 1278 100.0 34500 6273 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 231 60.4 11.0 0.71 1278 100.0 34500 6273 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0323 49.6 10.0 0.65 1278 100.0 34500 6203 0.475 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon HP38 59.0 10.8 0.70 1271 100.0 34500 6161 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0111 62.3 10.1 0.66 1263 100.0 34500 5990 0.476 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 105.0 23.1 1.49 1262 58.5 26192 8658 0.528
Accurate Nitro 100 72.4 9.1 0.59 1253 100.0 34500 5970 0.484 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant GREEN DOT 73.4 9.8 0.64 1252 100.0 34500 5979 0.490 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AS 50N 69.7 9.7 0.63 1249 100.0 34500 5916 0.490 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0531 105.0 22.6 1.46 1245 62.8 23888 8941 0.555
Vihtavuori N320 69.0 9.7 0.63 1244 100.0 34500 5771 0.487 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil P801 61.2 10.3 0.67 1235 100.0 34500 5799 0.497 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1000 72.1 9.6 0.62 1234 100.0 34500 5675 0.486 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon TiteGroup 49.8 9.7 0.63 1223 100.0 34500 5529 0.485 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RED DOT 74.7 8.9 0.58 1223 100.0 34500 5616 0.490 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AS 30 73.1 9.1 0.59 1205 100.0 34500 5360 0.492 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 514 65.9 8.8 0.57 1202 100.0 34500 5229 0.487 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil P805 77.4 9.2 0.60 1184 100.0 34500 5145 0.499 ! Near Maximum !
Norma R1 75.7 9.2 0.59 1184 100.0 34500 5141 0.499 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N310 57.9 8.1 0.52 1162 100.0 34500 4812 0.497 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 105.0 23.7 1.53 1158 47.0 22874 7088 0.568
Hodgdon Clays 69.3 8.0 0.52 1145 100.0 34500 4652 0.491 ! Near Maximum !

 

[JD338]

A comparison of the cases should tell you that you can't do it. And shooting a 10mm in an auto should also be factored into the equation. :?

JD338

I follow you on the case comparison but what does being a semi auto have to do with anything?

when i refered to 10 mm auto, I was refering to the round, not the wheapon. This is being shot out of a glock.

Autos are not strong actions. I guarantee you that if an over pressure load is fired in an auto, you will have a FTE.


If your friend wants 41 Mag performance, he should go get one. Much safer way to go.

JD338

 

[.405]

There is this guy that keeps telling me that a 10mm auto can be loaded hotter than a 41. rem mag. Im telling this guy that he's nuts and is crazy for trying this. He says the 10mm can push the 180 gr. bullet faster and harder than the 41 mag.


Thanks for any help

Nope.I have gotten over 1400 fps with a 210 grain bullet out of my .41 mags. Try that with a 10mm.The 10mm is about the same as the old Winchester 73 .38/40s.Weak as hell in a rifle but somewhat impressive out of a semi auto handgun.I have a Colt Delta Elite Gold Cup , and it is accurate as hell.
I can keep them all in the K5 ring on a human silloutte at 70 yards offhand.
Jeff Cooper would be proud of this one, because it is a hell tooter.

 

[smitty81]

Thanks pop, this site will have a lot of visitors........

 

[jtoews80]

Isn't it the glock that bulges cases because the barrel/feedramp doesn't allow the case to be fully surrounded when the pistol is fired??

JT.

 

[Greg Nolan]

When the 10 mm first came out there was only one manufactorer of ammo. That was Norma. They had 2 loads. A 170 gr jhp at 1300 fps and a 200 gr at 1200 fps. They were very hot and caused a lot of the origional Cold Delt Elites to damage the frame because the teflon stops on the springs couldn't handle the pressure slamming the slide back. It was designed for the Bren Ten for military special forces. I had one of the first Delta Elites in California. I was a FFL dealer then. Had to buy new Norma ammo to shoot it and get brass.RCBS made the only dies.
Anyway based on those hot loads in the 5.5" barrel they were still less than the 210 gr. 41 mag at 1350 FPS. They had more FPE than the standard 357 mag as loaded today due to the larger bullet weight at about the same velocity. I still have my 10mm and my 41 mag and I wouldn't sell them.
Greg

 

[.405]

If I remember correctly ,it seems like my best loads for the 10mm involved about 12 grain of AA7 and a 180 grain bullet.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Well its pretty clear the guy knows nothing about ballistics so I say let him try it, and dont be anywhere around. Bet he only tries it once...

Just look at any reloading book. The 41 easily outdoes the 10mm by 200fps. If he cant read and understand numbers, the guys got no hope!!

 

[Greg Nolan]

I was running 170 gr Hornady XTP's (they used to make that weight) with 12.8 grs of AA#7 for 1300 fps.
AMT used to make a stainless longslide auto with I believe a 6.5" barrel. The gentleman who owned it claimed it was as powerfull as a 44 mag. with his loads. He competed in "falling plates" action shooting with us. I won't go into detail of how many shots at what range we shot at but he never made it past the first 3 plates. He blew up 3 guns (fractured slides and broken ejectors with a few blown cases that couldn't be extracted) in the events I was at. He ruined a lot of nice guns that I wished I could afford.
So much for nostalgia!
Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin: