Quickload projected pressure?

[preacher]

Yes sir! That's it...what do those figures mean as far as real pressure goes? My chrono figures showed "exactly" 2550fps av for this load, so we are spot on!

 

[SJB358]

Yes sir! That's it...what do those figures mean as far as real pressure goes? My chrono figures showed "exactly" 2550fps av for this load, so we are spot on!

That means with that bullet at that speed you are running about 70K or so with that powder.

 

[preacher]

Wow. I am having a hard time believing I am around 70K with that load, ha. Oh well, I doubt I will ever use that powder again. I really want to try H322. Even Hodgdens Data for the standard Whelen shows 52gr of H322/250 for 48,500 CUP. IF H322 is indeed close to 2015, how can 53.5/2015 be 70K yet 52 of similar H322 just be 48.5K? I'm just trying to figure this out,ha. I "know" my 200TTSX/2950 is OK, and proven on elk sized game and I will use it 99% of the time, BUT...I'm kind of bumfuzzled. To get back to 2600/250 you guys think maybe I should fall back to 4064 or 4895?

 

[SJB358]

Wow. I am having a hard time believing I am around 70K with that load, ha. Oh well, I doubt I will ever use that powder again. I really want to try H322. Even Hodgdens Data for the standard Whelen shows 52gr of H322/250 for 48,500 CUP. IF H322 is indeed close to 2015, how can 53.5/2015 be 70K yet 52 of similar H322 just be 48.5K? I'm just trying to figure this out,ha. I "know" my 200TTSX/2950 is OK, and proven on elk sized game and I will use it 99% of the time, BUT...I'm kind of bumfuzzled. To get back to 2600/250 you guys think maybe I should fall back to 4064 or 4895?

H4895, IMR4320, RL15, Varget will all get you in that range pretty easily Jim.

Don't get me wrong Jim, I lean hard on my stuff as well, but as a Handloader we only have velocity to REALLY measure PSI's. I think just about anything but Piezo electronics has some flaws so it leaves us with speed. QL gives a great tool to sort it out some but it still can't predict a slightly larger or smaller bore, odd chamber, etc.

 

[RiverRider]

I agree with Scotty wholeheartedly.

I've read through this thread and did not see any mention of an actual water capacity measurement. It can make all the difference in the world. Case in point: that slick new 70 Super Grade I snagged a couple of months ago? My load for the older .280 pushed a 150 Partition to about 2920 fps (at approximately 58000 psi). In the 70, that same load only yields 2840 fps. The 70 has a very generous chamber and my fireformed brass holds 70.4 grains of water, but when fireformed in the older rifle holds 69.0 grains of water. What I'm trying to say is that QL will give you what I *believe to be* a good approximation of pressure, but the case's water capacity MUST be known and input in order to get good info. Like they've been saying about computers and programs for decades...garbage in, garbage out.

 

[Dwh7271]

RR,
Spot on.
To get a close idea you need case capacity, barrel length, COAL (makes a big difference), bullet and 8-10 chrono'd results. Then you adjust QL to the results you are actually seeing and you get an approximate pressure. Anything else is a guess.

 

[preacher]

OK Dw...I just weighed a fired case (w/spent primer in it) and got 199.4 grains. I filled the case with water ( slight meniscus at case mouth) and got 272.8 grains. = 73.40 grains of water.
Remington 22" 1 in 16" twist barrel, 35 Whelen Ackley Improved; Barnes 250X; 53.5gr AA2015br (they just call it 2015 now) RP fireformed case; 3.43" COAL; BR2 primer. For years Its chronographed on average about 2550fps to 2600 from 40 to 80deg. I killed a zebra, blue wildebeest, gemsbok, red hartebeest and a Kudu with this load.
All you QL Diviners...Please help a Brother out and lets see if you can get some closer figures please. Then see how many grains of H322 would get me to the same 2575-2600? Thanks Guys!

 

[DrMike]

You likely did get ~2550 fps with that load.

Cartridge : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet : .358, 250, Barnes 'X' S 35835
Useable Case Capaci: 62.365 grain H2O = 4.049 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.430 inch = 87.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Accurate 2015

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 42.80 2148 2562 40272 6077 100.0 1.352
-18.0 80 43.87 2190 2663 42602 6168 100.0 1.322
-16.0 82 44.94 2232 2765 45063 6257 100.0 1.292
-14.0 84 46.01 2273 2868 47663 6344 100.0 1.264
-12.0 86 47.08 2313 2971 50410 6431 100.0 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
-10.0 88 48.15 2353 3074 53313 6515 100.0 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 90 49.22 2393 3179 56380 6599 100.0 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 91 50.29 2432 3284 59624 6680 100.0 1.158 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 93 51.36 2471 3390 63054 6760 100.0 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 95 52.43 2510 3496 66685 6838 100.0 1.109 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 97 53.50 2548 3604 70529 6914 100.0 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 99 54.57 2586 3713 74603 6989 100.0 1.057 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 55.64 2624 3822 78923 7061 100.0 1.032 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 56.71 2662 3933 83508 7131 100.0 1.008 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 105 57.78 2699 4045 88378 7199 100.0 0.985 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 107 58.85 2737 4158 93557 7264 100.0 0.963 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 53.50 2600 3753 81706 6712 100.0 1.026 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 53.50 2469 3385 59220 7213 100.0 1.152 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


You also were generating a pretty good head of steam (tickling the dragon's tail).

You will reduce maximum chamber pressure somewhat by using H322.

Cartridge : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet : .358, 250, Barnes 'X' S 35835
Useable Case Capaci: 62.365 grain H2O = 4.049 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.430 inch = 87.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H322

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 75 42.08 2128 2515 37343 6358 99.2 1.366
-18.0 77 43.13 2172 2618 39451 6485 99.5 1.336
-16.0 79 44.18 2214 2722 41659 6602 99.8 1.306
-14.0 81 45.24 2257 2827 43988 6710 99.9 1.277
-12.0 83 46.29 2299 2933 46449 6808 100.0 1.250
-10.0 85 47.34 2340 3041 49052 6898 100.0 1.222
-08.0 87 48.39 2382 3148 51803 6985 100.0 1.196 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 89 49.44 2422 3257 54712 7071 100.0 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 90 50.50 2462 3366 57788 7156 100.0 1.146 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 92 51.55 2502 3476 61043 7239 100.0 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 94 52.60 2542 3587 64486 7319 100.0 1.098 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 96 53.65 2581 3699 68132 7399 100.0 1.074 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 54.70 2620 3812 71994 7476 100.0 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 55.76 2659 3926 76087 7551 100.0 1.024 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 102 56.81 2698 4041 80429 7624 100.0 1.001 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 104 57.86 2736 4157 85038 7695 100.0 0.978 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 94 52.60 2604 3764 74855 7085 100.0 1.040 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 94 52.60 2447 3325 54184 7642 99.8 1.165 ! Near Maximum !

 

[preacher]

Good morning Brother! Wow, 70K? Bummer. With this newer info supplied, what does it show for my 55gr/R15/310 Woodleigh load? Thanks again...I'm starting to wring my hands here, ha.

 

[DrMike]

Mildly over pressure.

Cartridge : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet : .358, 310, Woodleigh SN WeldCore 54
Useable Case Capaci: 63.074 grain H2O = 4.095 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.430 inch = 87.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 76 44.00 1891 2462 32570 6824 95.8 1.635
-18.0 78 45.10 1934 2574 34590 7000 96.6 1.592
-16.0 79 46.20 1976 2687 36725 7169 97.3 1.550
-14.0 81 47.30 2018 2803 38982 7330 97.9 1.509
-12.0 83 48.40 2060 2920 41367 7482 98.4 1.467
-10.0 85 49.50 2101 3039 43887 7625 98.9 1.427
-08.0 87 50.60 2142 3159 46552 7758 99.2 1.388
-06.0 89 51.70 2183 3281 49369 7882 99.5 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 91 52.80 2224 3404 52349 7995 99.8 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 93 53.90 2264 3528 55501 8097 99.9 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 55.00 2304 3654 58838 8187 100.0 1.249 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 96 56.10 2344 3781 62372 8268 100.0 1.217 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 57.20 2383 3908 66117 8345 100.0 1.186 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 58.30 2422 4037 70088 8421 100.0 1.157 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 102 59.40 2460 4166 74302 8494 100.0 1.129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 104 60.50 2499 4297 78778 8565 100.0 1.101 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 95 55.00 2379 3896 69358 7857 100.0 1.169 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 95 55.00 2192 3306 48475 8330 97.5 1.355

Nothing that would cause me great heartburn.

 

[preacher]

Thanks Young man! I don't shoot this Woodleigh everyday, in fact, once I learned where it hit in relation to my 200TTSX @100 I will now shoot it very sparingly. I still need to shoot it out to 200 to se if keeps stability further out, but for a woods load ( where 90% of our elk live! ) I'm good. At this stage of my life, I am happy with under 65K with standards (or close )! ha Thanks again...if this keeps up I will have to donate money to your cemetary for perpetual grounds care!

 

[nvbroncrider]

Mildly over pressure.

Cartridge : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet : .358, 310, Woodleigh SN WeldCore 54
Useable Case Capaci: 63.074 grain H2O = 4.095 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.430 inch = 87.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 76 44.00 1891 2462 32570 6824 95.8 1.635
-18.0 78 45.10 1934 2574 34590 7000 96.6 1.592
-16.0 79 46.20 1976 2687 36725 7169 97.3 1.550
-14.0 81 47.30 2018 2803 38982 7330 97.9 1.509
-12.0 83 48.40 2060 2920 41367 7482 98.4 1.467
-10.0 85 49.50 2101 3039 43887 7625 98.9 1.427
-08.0 87 50.60 2142 3159 46552 7758 99.2 1.388
-06.0 89 51.70 2183 3281 49369 7882 99.5 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 91 52.80 2224 3404 52349 7995 99.8 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 93 53.90 2264 3528 55501 8097 99.9 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 55.00 2304 3654 58838 8187 100.0 1.249 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 96 56.10 2344 3781 62372 8268 100.0 1.217 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 57.20 2383 3908 66117 8345 100.0 1.186 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 58.30 2422 4037 70088 8421 100.0 1.157 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 102 59.40 2460 4166 74302 8494 100.0 1.129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 104 60.50 2499 4297 78778 8565 100.0 1.101 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 95 55.00 2379 3896 69358 7857 100.0 1.169 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 95 55.00 2192 3306 48475 8330 97.5 1.355

Nothing that would cause me great heartburn.

Mike that would be correct if he was seeing 2300fps but with him seeing 2420ish that would put him at 70k correct?

 

[DrMike]

Everything else being the same, you are correct, Jake. He is definitely tickling the dragon's tail. There is no free lunch when it comes to pressure/velocity.

 

[SJB358]

I agree with Scotty wholeheartedly.

I've read through this thread and did not see any mention of an actual water capacity measurement. It can make all the difference in the world. Case in point: that slick new 70 Super Grade I snagged a couple of months ago? My load for the older .280 pushed a 150 Partition to about 2920 fps (at approximately 58000 psi). In the 70, that same load only yields 2840 fps. The 70 has a very generous chamber and my fireformed brass holds 70.4 grains of water, but when fireformed in the older rifle holds 69.0 grains of water. What I'm trying to say is that QL will give you what I *believe to be* a good approximation of pressure, but the case's water capacity MUST be known and input in order to get good info. Like they've been saying about computers and programs for decades...garbage in, garbage out.

Same for the actual measured speeds of the lot of powder your using.

 

[preacher]

Well durn! Since I do not have an heir for this rifle, I am either going to rebarrel to a longer barrel in .340W/338 RUM or have this rifle converted to 358 Norma mag! I "want" the thump w/o the risk to my "only good right eye'...my left one has been :legally blind" since 2002! Meaning that I "don't need" a 70K+ round finally deciding to "blow" and take a chance of getting shrapnel in my only good eye, even though I wear good eyeglasses! Bummer.

 

[preacher]

My last remaining load....might as well see how hot I have these running! Everything is the same except its with the 200X @ 2970/58gr H322 and the newer 200TTSX @2950/58.5gr H322. Two barnes manuals show 58gr/200 as Max in a standard Whelen.
I've also used this one in South Africa, shoot it a lot around here too. I've had no issues with brass but admittedly have never just reloaded say three cases until failure. So give me the bad news...how hot is this baby?

 

[preacher]

Its moot now, having this baby converted to 358 Norma...whoopee!!!

 

[SJB358]

Its moot now, having this baby converted to 358 Norma...whoopee!!!

That's a cool round Buddy. I dig those big 35's.

 

[DrMike]

You'll enjoy the new cartridge, Jim. Don't know that it kills any deader, but it is always fun to work with a different cartridge. It does appear to be an accurate cartridge, which is always of interest.